Suggestions on VFD for Clausing or Rockwell DP

[nydad]

Hi, I'm setting up my shop and have been looking for a good drill press. I came across a Clausing 15" 16SC (5-speed), likely vintage 60s or 70s, with a 3 phase 3/4 HP motor, and I'm also considering a (much cheaper) Rockwell 15-665, again with a 3 phase motor. As I don't have 3 phase in my shop I would need a VFD. I've perused various threads on this but was looking for some advice about this model and recommendations for a VFD that might work for it. I have 120v power on a GFCI circuit, I'd prefer a solution that works with 120v, not sure if there are VFDs that won't trigger the GFCI?

So my questions:
1. Does anyone have any advice on VFD manufacturers to consider? Ideally I'd want to spend < $150. I don't need lots of bells and whistles, mainly I'd like a forward/reverse ability and analog speed adjustment dial.
2. Can you recommend any videos or instructions that show the 'right' way to wire these up safely including enclosures and wiring harnesses etc? I don't have experience with doing machine wiring, just electrical like switches and light fixtures. The machine has a start/stop button at the front that I'd like to be able to use.
3. I'd love to have a tachometer wired up at some point, but I'm not sure if that can somehow be connected directly to the VFD or if it has to be mounted to take the reading from somewhere? I saw someone had connected an analog tach to the potentiometer but I don't understand how this works, how does the VFD know the final RPMs? If I want a tachometer in the future, would that influence that model of VFD that I get now?

 

[nydad]

Note: I'm currently considering this model, with RFI filter: https://acim.nidec.com/drives/kbele...cuments/ac-drives/data-sheets/kbma.ashx?la=en

 

[alfadan]

Teco-Westinghouse L510

 

[930dreamer]

Teco-Westinghouse L510

This is what I have on my Clausing DP.

 

[nydad]

Thanks for the recommendation, studying now. FWIW the model I linked above (KBMA) from KB will not work at least in my case b/c it will trip GFCIs, and the option to program it to *not* GFCIs is not available for small orders. They recommended this model instead but it's a bit more expensive:

https://acim.nidec.com/drives/kbelectronics/-/media/kbelectronics/documents/ac-drives/data-sheets/kbda.ashx?la=en

It also appears the L510 has an auxiliary low voltage out that I could use to drive a tachometer potentially.

 

[Davefr]

Thanks for the recommendation, studying now. FWIW the model I linked above (KBMA) from KB will not work at least in my case b/c it will trip GFCIs, and the option to program it to *not* GFCIs is not available for small orders. They recommended this model instead but it's a bit more expensive:

https://acim.nidec.com/drives/kbelectronics/-/media/kbelectronics/documents/ac-drives/data-sheets/kbda.ashx?la=en

It also appears the L510 has an auxiliary low voltage out that I could use to drive a tachometer potentially.

I have the L510 and its been perfect. One of the other benefits is the excellent documentation and knowledge base. (never buy a no name VFD because the manual will likely be terrible). You don't need a separate tachometer. The L510 can be programmed to display spindle speed directly at your preferred belt/pulley arrangement as shown below. (I've never had the need to change belt settings.)

Make sure you add a remote control that's within easy reach and you can wire the main power switch to be Rev, Off and FWD in case you want to use L.H. drill bits.

 

[Firebrick43]

Thanks for the recommendation, studying now. FWIW the model I linked above (KBMA) from KB will not work at least in my case b/c it will trip GFCIs, and the option to program it to *not* GFCIs is not available for small orders. They recommended this model instead but it's a bit more expensive:

https://acim.nidec.com/drives/kbelectronics/-/media/kbelectronics/documents/ac-drives/data-sheets/kbda.ashx?la=en

It would be a LOT easier to just alter the wiring so the one outlet that is used by the drill press isn’t utilizing the GFCI

Some vfd’s are much better than others but they will all trip gfci’s due to noise.

It also appears the L510 has an auxiliary low voltage out that I could use to drive a tachometer potentially.

That is a really lousy way to handle rpm display. Either use scaling inside the vfd like the L510 if you are not changing belt positions or mount a pickup sensor on the main spindle pulley for a true reading no matter the belt position.

 

[nydad]

re: GFCI wiring - yes it's a good thing to consider. All of my circuits in the shop are currently on GFCI circuits, but I could probably make one of the circuits GFCI-free for this purpose as well.

re: rpm, I was actually thinking of a pickup sensor and powering it from the auxiliary out, but in reading the manual more carefully that might actually be a variable output which is less ideal. In any case, if I go for the L510 I'll just do the scaling as suggested.

 

[alfadan]

You may be seeing the variable input where you change speed with an external potentiometer

 

[paulsomlo]

Forget about the KB - go with the Teco-Westinghouse. I've got one on my lathe and I'm very happy with it. I'd say don't bother with a tach, it's really not necessary.

 

[Firebrick43]

You may be seeing the variable input where you change speed with an external potentiometer

Most vfd's like the L510 have a variable 0-10v output as well. Its more for communicating with an analog input card on a PLC for automation or machine tools so it knows what the speed is.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Hi, I'm setting up my shop and have been looking for a good drill press. I came across a Clausing 15" 16SC (5-speed), likely vintage 60s or 70s, with a 3 phase 3/4 HP motor, and I'm also considering a (much cheaper) Rockwell 15-665, again with a 3 phase motor. As I don't have 3 phase in my shop I would need a VFD. I've perused various threads on this but was looking for some advice about this model and recommendations for a VFD that might work for it. I have 120v power on a GFCI circuit, I'd prefer a solution that works with 120v, not sure if there are VFDs that won't trigger the GFCI?

So my questions:
1. Does anyone have any advice on VFD manufacturers to consider? Ideally I'd want to spend < $150. I don't need lots of bells and whistles, mainly I'd like a forward/reverse ability and analog speed adjustment dial.
2. Can you recommend any videos or instructions that show the 'right' way to wire these up safely including enclosures and wiring harnesses etc? I don't have experience with doing machine wiring, just electrical like switches and light fixtures. The machine has a start/stop button at the front that I'd like to be able to use.
3. I'd love to have a tachometer wired up at some point, but I'm not sure if that can somehow be connected directly to the VFD or if it has to be mounted to take the reading from somewhere? I saw someone had connected an analog tach to the potentiometer but I don't understand how this works, how does the VFD know the final RPMs? If I want a tachometer in the future, would that influence that model of VFD that I get now?

I know you asked about a VFD...
But have you considered a rotary phase converter?
I started down the 3 phase path when I got an older knee mill that was 3 ph.
Not long after I bought an old lathe that was also 3 ph. So I had to decide how I was going to to power them.
I ended up getting a 7 1/2 hp 3 ph motor for free. So I bought the kit below, a used enclosure box off CL and made my own RPC. I have ~$150 in it.
The kit came with simple instructions - and I'm no electric guru.
That was 4 years ago. My shop now includes SIX 3 ph machines and I can power ANY of them with that one RPC.
I know an RPC does not give you all the bells and whistles that a VFD does. But if you think you may ever expand your 3 ph herd,I think an RPC is the best way to go.

Phase Converter kits ( Rotary Style )

phaseconverterusa.com

 

[paulsomlo]

I know you asked about a VFD...
But have you considered a rotary phase converter?
I started down the 3 phase path when I got an older knee mill that was 3 ph.
Not long after I bought an old lathe that was also 3 ph. So I had to decide how I was going to to power them.
I ended up getting a 7 1/2 hp 3 ph motor for free. So I bought the kit below, a used enclosure box off CL and made my own RPC. I have ~$150 in it.
The kit came with simple instructions - and I'm no electric guru.
That was 4 years ago. My shop now includes SIX 3 ph machines and I can power ANY of them with that one RPC.
I know an RPC does not give you all the bells and whistles that a VFD does. But if you think you may ever expand your 3 ph herd,I think an RPC is the best way to go.

Phase Converter kits ( Rotary Style )

phaseconverterusa.com

An RPC is great if you don't need variable speed, but in this case, being able to vary the speed will cut down on belt changes and allow the spindle to stop on a dime, which speaking from personal experience, would be very convenient.

 

[Davefr]

I know you asked about a VFD...
But have you considered a rotary phase converter?
I started down the 3 phase path when I got an older knee mill that was 3 ph.
Not long after I bought an old lathe that was also 3 ph. So I had to decide how I was going to to power them.
I ended up getting a 7 1/2 hp 3 ph motor for free. So I bought the kit below, a used enclosure box off CL and made my own RPC. I have ~$150 in it.
The kit came with simple instructions - and I'm no electric guru.
That was 4 years ago. My shop now includes SIX 3 ph machines and I can power ANY of them with that one RPC.
I know an RPC does not give you all the bells and whistles that a VFD does. But if you think you may ever expand your 3 ph herd,I think an RPC is the best way to go.

Phase Converter kits ( Rotary Style )

phaseconverterusa.com

Yes, but he wants to use a 120 VAC supply

 

[Ultradog MN]

Yes, but he wants to use a 120 VAC supply

An RPC is great if you don't need variable speed, but in this case, being able to vary the speed will cut down on belt changes and allow the spindle to stop on a dime, which speaking from personal experience, would be very convenient.

I thought most of those Clausings already had variable speed with their reeves drive. And a 3 phase motor is usually instantly reversible.

 

[Firebrick43]

I thought most of those Clausings already had variable speed with their reeves drive. And a 3 phase motor is usually instantly reversible.

The op stated in his first post that it is a five speed not one of the reeves drives models.

Plugging the motor with a drum switch to reverse direction is different than “stopping on a dime”.

The vfd had deaccelleration curves (acceleration curves to). that can be programmed and depending on the rotational mass active spindle braking. If the mass is too high an additional braking resistor may need to be installed.

 

[loganb]

I put a vfd on my Powermatic 1150, think the first post in the series where I got working on it is here

3rd time's a charm with a 3 car workshop

I'll have to look into the Ubiquiti UniFi stuff. It's possible I will be using it in the future at another place. @slodat is spot on, Ubiquiti is legit....I've got their access points, dream machine router and some other gear at the house and we have one of the wireless point to point units on...

www.garagejournal.com

You'll have to go for several pages likely to get it all....I have a habit of multiple irons in the fire

The vfd was a cheap no name one. A Teco Westinghouse would have been preferred but didn't want to spend the money as they have gotten pricey

LAPOND Single Phase to 3 Phase Converter, 1.5KW 2HP VFD 220V 7A Output Variable Frequency Drive Vector Control Inverter for Spindle Motor CNC Speed Control,SVD-ES Series https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DKJWM62?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Ultradog MN]

The op stated in his first post that it is a five speed not one of the reeves drives models.

Plugging the motor with a drum switch to reverse direction is different than “stopping on a dime”.

The vfd had deaccelleration curves (acceleration curves to). that can be programmed and depending on the rotational mass active spindle braking. If the mass is too high an additional braking resistor may need to be insinstalled.

Sorry,
Guess I need to read a little closer.
Am too used to my 22" 3 ph gear head with Lo/Hi motor and instantaneous reversing...

 

[nydad]

I know you asked about a VFD...
But have you considered a rotary phase converter?
I started down the 3 phase path when I got an older knee mill that was 3 ph.
Not long after I bought an old lathe that was also 3 ph. So I had to decide how I was going to to power them.
I ended up getting a 7 1/2 hp 3 ph motor for free. So I bought the kit below, a used enclosure box off CL and made my own RPC. I have ~$150 in it.
The kit came with simple instructions - and I'm no electric guru.
That was 4 years ago. My shop now includes SIX 3 ph machines and I can power ANY of them with that one RPC.
I know an RPC does not give you all the bells and whistles that a VFD does. But if you think you may ever expand your 3 ph herd,I think an RPC is the best way to go.

Phase Converter kits ( Rotary Style )

phaseconverterusa.com

Thanks - in this case I was looking for both variable speed control and the ability to reverse, I don't know if my 'herd' is going to expand to a lot of other 3 phase machines, so for now I think a VFD will be the best way if I end up buying one of these 3 phase drills.