Sump Basin Expansion

[Kmp259]

After lurking around here for a year .... I thought it time to give back .... I like to Thank all of you guy's as your knowledge is the Best and very helpful when you get into projects.

Our Sump Pump was running ever minute.... on for 20 Seconds and then off for about a minute. That meant that it was cycling 50 to 60 times an hour.....as luck would have it, we went thru 20 years of listening to the sump pump going on and off and always wondering when it was going to break or quit running. Many times we were concerned about leaving the house for any length of time. Even though we had a Battery Back-up, you're not sure it will keep up with the water coming in. In a 4" Corrugated pipe at times the water would be flowing in at a full pipe of flow..... in those times the pump never shut off for more then 15 -20 seconds at a time.... a bit scary when you see a 4" flow of water coming into your Basin.

So we called US Waterproofing .... We really didn't know who to call.... and we were to old to do this our selves. They were very good and I was quite surprised when I told them what I wanted to do.... Which was take out my small sump pump basin and install Two large Grinder Basins. I told them I wanted to tie them together at the bottom so they acted as one and then run the inside and outside corrugated pipe into them.... well all of our water is coming from around our house. and it appears our home is built on a spring.
Well the guy's they sent out were very good and hard working.... I bought a 5" hole saw and sealing rings from McMaster Carr so we could seal the two Basins together. Hears where they started ....

 

[Kmp259]

I wasn't a big fan of calling out a company to do this work for us.... but we wanted it done in a timely fashion and clean as possible. After watching these guy's work together ... there was no way I could of done this type of work as quickly as they did the job.

They jack hammered out the corner and removed the concrete and then dug the hole deeper to get the larger Basin in....

The new basin is 24"x 36" so a large hole had to be opened up, also they stayed away from the foundation when jack hammering. We also discovered a leak in the corrugated pipe coming into the old sump basin.

 

[Kmp259]

Now they had to dig the other hole for the second basin and drill the holes for the PVC pipe that ties the two basins together. We drilled a 5" hole 6" from the bottom of the basins, that put the PVC pipe a couple of inches off the floor of the basins.

Another point is that on a standard basin of 18"x 24" .... 1" of water is equal to 1 gallon of water.... on these 24"x 36" basins 1" of water is equal to 2 gallons of water. and if you times two basins 1" of water = 4 gallons of water. a lot of water .... That will help in the end process.

If you look real close, you can see the PVC tube in the bottom of the Basins

 

[Kmp259]

Here we have hooked up the inside corrugated pipe to the inside PVC tube and also the outside corrugated pipe to the PVC tube. We drilled a 5" hole and then the rubber seal is 1/2" thick ... so we had to grease up the PVC tube to get it thru from basin to basin and also on the two input PVC tubes.

 

[Kmp259]

Now we have them flat and level .... also the tubes are connected and no leaks...plus we have a lot of tank to handle the water coming in to our house.

They had to keep a old sump pump running while we were doing this to keep the water out of their way. Also it was a dry time of the year this summer and it was down to a small amount of water coming in.

 

[Kmp259]

I hooked up a hose to one of our Hot water tanks and we washed down the floor and filled the area around the basins with gravel and rock and packed it down. Also you can see we put up plastic before we started to not let any dust or concrete get out of the area we were working.... I thought there would be a lot of dust... but there was hardly any dust .... mostly mud ... from digging the hole ... the hole we dug was about 3 times bigger then what was there.... but the Hot Water cleaned up the floor like it was never touched.

 

[Kmp259]

Well they finally got the new concrete packed in along with all of the rocks... and I must admit for a while I was wondering if it was ever going to look OK again.... but yes once I washed everything down and we started installing the PVC tubes and Check valves it started looking like our idea is working out good.
We also installed Zoeller Sump Pumps that are sealed so you can use a float switch. The reason is because we can have a larger range of water to pump out of the basins. our goal was to slow down the cycle time of the sump pump. from 50-60 times an hour to 6-11 times an hour. That is what Zoeller Company recommended. believe it ...we were getting 3-5 years out of our pumps even though they were cycling 40-50 times an hour. Also the Quiet Check valve works great and you can see what is going on ....and which pump is pumping.

 

[Kmp259]

Here's the main and back up pumps in Basin #1, another Zoeller Pump is in Basin #2 and they will alternate back an forth.... The back up pump is a Big Dog battery back-up with a extra Battery in parallel with the main so you can get longer life out of the pumping time. When it's just a slow flow the battery back up will keep up ... but if it gets to a 4"flow .... well I'll need to do something else. like maybe another battery back-up. not sure..will cross that bridge when we get to it..

 

[D45]

Looks nice, what was the cost?

 

[Kmp259]

D45

The cost was $2600 for all of the labor hauling away the dirt,concrete,and bringing the gravel and mixing the new concrete. and the large Basins, I provided the PVC and pumps and power.

They did the job in 9 hours. which was great as we did not want this dragging out...

I'm sure others could have done the job for much less... but not as quick and provide everything.

 

[slickgt1]

I have two investment properties that have this same issue. Very annoying. What was the cost, and do they have some sort of controller that alternates which pump turns on when?

 

[Kmp259]

Here is everything complete and finished.... The workers did all of the work including bringing in the 24"x 36" basins and they were very heavy duty sewage basins.... with tops... haven't done that yet...

Also I had a electrician come in and give us two more 20 amp circuits, one for the pumps and one for the back-up system...

Remember me saying that now with 24"x 36" basins, 1" of water = 4 gals of water. With this set up we now are cycling 9" of water every 15 minutes and with a Zoeller Alternator controlling the pumps one pump is only cycling 2 time an hour. This is the low level ... when we had a large down pour of rain for a few days .... we started cycling 8 times an hour or 4 times for each pump. This should increase the life of our pumps by ten fold.

But the real issue is that when it's really pouring in and we are cycling 8 times an hour.... that's = 4 gal/inch X 9" water = 36 gals per cycle X 8 cycles/hour = 288 Gals per hour X 24 hours = 6912 Gals per day. Wow....
I didn't realize we were pumping this much water out from under our house. But now I'm really glad I went with 2 each 24"x36" Grinder Basins.

The Zoeller Alternator is a great way to go when you are pushing as much water as we are.

 

[Kmp259]

I have two investment properties that have this same issue. Very annoying. What was the cost, and do they have some sort of controller that alternates which pump turns on when?

Slick

Once we got this done, I must say sump pump is a thing of the past and I should have done this many years ago.

One of the things that I found was the attachment that holds the cord of the float switch.... I have to look them up ... but they are what makes it very easy and you can measure and locate them on the PVC to get your larger amount of water in the basins. You can measure how much water you are moving per cycle and then adjust it as you want and it stays there.... I went thru cable ties trying to attach the cord to the PVC pipe ... and it always broke at some point in time... then we had problems ... so I wanted to get away from cable ties to hold the float cord.

 

[D45]

Looks like good quality work

No sump pit covers though?

What year was your house built?

 

[larry4406]

I agree on the sump covers (radon mitigation and reduced moisture).

I'm assuming fully buried basement with no chance to daylight draintile? Daylight of draintile or connection to a storm drain would be my preference.

I've had houses where the pump was set too low relative to natural drainage. Raising the pump let nature take its course vs pumping.

 

[slickgt1]

Got any part numbers for the controllers and the juicy stuff?

I also agree on the covers as well.

 

[joes169]

Nice work.

The single biggest improvement is the larger crocks IMPO. Longer cycle times = less pump strat-up, which equates to FAR better pump life. IIRC, code for effluent pumps (grinder pumps in sewage crocks) was that they needed to run for 20 seconds minimum each cycle, so the pump and crock had to be sized together.

I would recommned that the selaed covers go one as well, for a number of reasons. Radon, moisture, air leakage, safety, etc... But, the most important is code, at least here. All sump crocks need to be 1" above the floor minimum, OR they need to be equipped with a sealed lid.

 

[Kmp259]

I agree on the sump covers (radon mitigation and reduced moisture).

I'm assuming fully buried basement with no chance to daylight draintile? Daylight of draintile or connection to a storm drain would be my preference.

I've had houses where the pump was set too low relative to natural drainage. Raising the pump let nature take its course vs pumping.

Larry

I agree with you, I just haven't had time to install the Tops yet .... the good thing was they came with Stainless Steel Fastners and a seal for the top to set on....

Also as you can see we have tried different approaches to high and low levels in the prior sump pump location. None made a difference ..... if I didn't pump the water out it would fill up my basement ..... so this is the next best way to go

 

[Kmp259]

BTW, I have all of my Down spouts and sump pump water plumbed in a 4" PVC pipe out to the Storm Sewer so we get all of the Roof water and sump pump water away from the house. This hasn't had any effect on the amount of water coming into the sump basin.

Also here's the clamp that I found that really make the height of the water and how much water is pumped out.... before we used cable ties in a small normal sump pit that just doesn't have enough room for the float and both pumps.

Here's the site for the clamps

http://store.aquatechnologygroup.com/products/c30-pipe-mount-clamp-stainless-band-assembly/

 

[Kmp259]

The other thing we did was to test the water to see if it was drinkable.

And we found out that the water was as clean as our house water. That made me feel much better once I knew it was very clean water coming in the house.

I'm sure many folks have had this type of issue and there are hundreds of ways to fix it.... but at least now we can leave home and not be concerned that our basement will be full of water when we return.

If there are other idea's on what we could do please don't hesitate to let me know .... improvements can be made everyday....

Here's the Test Kit we used for the water.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Wow, just the picture of the water coming in is impressive. I wouldn't want to think how much water is coming in at full bore.

If you are built on a spring, it'd be nice to divert that water away before it even gets to the house.

 

[matt_i]

I like the dual pump setup and the "toggle" as it balances exercise and wear on both pumps. Just have to verify that the "alarm" status works on both sides so if Pump A fails then B will take over, and you are alerted to the fault condition so you know that you have to do something, otherwise B will just run and run to failure.

As above, if there was any easy way to divert this waterflow by excavation, etc, drain to somewhere lower I would think about that.

 

[PeterT]

Nice work,, nice design in your head, and looks like you got a couple good workers. Those zoeller pumps are great pumps, made in Kentucky.

Enjoy some piece of mind now.

 

[Slowgsr]

Very nice job - well worth the money by the looks of it.

Very large amount of water - I wish I had that, it would keep a large cisterin full. I wonder what the mineral content of that water is like?

 

[Kmp259]

I like the dual pump setup and the "toggle" as it balances exercise and wear on both pumps. Just have to verify that the "alarm" status works on both sides so if Pump A fails then B will take over, and you are alerted to the fault condition so you know that you have to do something, otherwise B will just run and run to failure.

Matt
The Zoeller Alternater does what you said, if one pump fails, then the alarm activates and the othe pump works until you repair or replace.....there's also a high water alarm the you can set and activate with any kind of a float switch.....

 

[Kmp259]

Very nice job - well worth the money by the looks of it.

Very large amount of water - I wish I had that, it would keep a large cisterin full. I wonder what the mineral content of that water is like?

Slowgsr

I wish I could think of a good use for the water....since we live in a nice finished neighborhood, we can't excavate the area....so we just live with the water flow.....but now we have it under control.....but I hate just pumping it out....but it's so much, it's hard to harness....and it's good clean water.

 

[zoomzoomjeff]

Nice pictures for a great job! It's on my to do list, given we can save for this job to be done. We live in a very flood prone area, with high water table. Need to upsize the basin, and also perform an interior perimeter drain tile to feed them. Lots of water pressure coming up from the basement floor.

 

[Kmp259]

I remember many years ago at my shop, not my home, the water table was so high with so much pressure......that water was streaming in between the footing and the walls.....and the side walls in the basement were 12" thick.....so I guess we do live in a high water saturated area....But once you increase your ability to handle the water ......it is a great relief off of your mind.....