Sump Pump questions. Switch & pit depth

[HMCFab9]

Sump pump questions:
1:are all sump pumps junk or can you buy a good reliable one?
I've had several pedestal pumps & they all seemed to run hot or the switch went out. I bought a Wayne submersible pump figuring it would run cooler being underwater, but now the switch went out & it's not that old. Should I replace the switch, or just get a better pump?
If I wiggle the lever for the switch, it works a couple times, but then stops working 'til the next time I go & manually move the switch arm. Can it be fixed, or is that a sign it's time for a new switch?
2: My sump pit is only 7" from the bottom of the pipe where the water comes in to the bottom of the pit. The pickup on the pump is probably 1-2" up from the bottom, which makes it only about 5" deep. What should the pit depth be? With mine being a shallow pit, it only takes a little water to kick the pump on. (it runs a LOT, especially in the spring) Would a larger / deeper pit be better because the pump wouldn't run as much? Or does it make no difference? Thanks!

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

First thing - you can get an external switch that is a floating bulb on a wire. As it raises up it closes a contact - starting the pump. I'm not sure the mechanics of the switch but if the EPA wasn't around it would be a mercury switch.

Like this switch

I'm having a hard time picturing your sump pit as described. What is the depth from the bottom of the pit to the top of the floor? The pit at my Dad's is probably 18 inches deep from bottom of pit to top of floor and their is no drain tile around the perimeter of the floor. The pump sits on some bricks so that the pump is off the bottom of the pit.

The pump kicks on when the water is about 5 inches below the top of the floor and drains about 10 inches before shutting down. His house is on a filled in pond so it's a bit swampy in the area. You want the pump to remove as much water as possible in a single on/off cycle so you don't short cycle it.

I do NOT have a sump pump in my house - it was an fairly important requirement after both my wife and I grew up with flooded basements from sump pump failures.

Cheers

Jim

 

[HMCFab9]

I had one with a floating switch. Didn't like it. The pit got too full before the pump kicked in & there was no way to control when it came on.
The pedestal one was good in that aspect because I could adjust when the pump would kick in.

The pit is about 18" deep. I'd think if it was a little deeper & larger diameter the pump wouldn't kick in as often. (during a real wet spring, it has came on about every 15 seconds & ran for about a minute & a half) The anti-drainback valve was in good condition, so it wasn't that water was coming back in.

The other thing is that it is fairly noisy & when it shuts off, it "hammers" quite a bit, whether the valve in it is new or old.

The only other thing I can think of to do is put the pump up off the floor of the pit so it doesn't run as often.

 

[Ron Fletcher]

I've never had a submersible pump. I read the reviews and saw that the bolts that hold them together will rust and the pump falls apart.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

If the switch is bad replace it. I replaced a few on mine
A deeper pit will reduce the short cycling and help to cool a submersible pump cool. Keeping the pump a couple inches off the bottom of the pit reduces the amount of crud the pump ***** up (as long as you don't let the crud get too deep).
Going larger will probably be a more difficult job but if you have the space it won't hurt. (You don't mention the size it is now)
Also take a look at how much lift you have to the output (and is the pump rated for it) and if there is anyplace in the line that can trap air.

 

[38 Dodge Coupe]

Given the potential for disaster if it fails , I would replace the pump for piece of mnd and fix the old one for a back up. I have a Ridgid sump pump now and have replaced it once under warranty when the stay bolts holding it together rusted and the pump came apart. I now check it once a month and the replacement which has been in there now three years shows no sign of rust. Maybe it was a bad batch of steel, who knows. I also added an exterior 9 volt battery water alarm that buzzes if the water goes higher than my float switch. I know it only works if you are home to hear it but it makes me feel better. I am also investigating adding a battery back up pump as well, but my pump does not run often so I am not in a hurry. I do have a generator with the pump wired to run the sump it if power goes, but it is is not automatic at this point.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I have had many pumps growing up, so here goes. Most pumps don't need to sit on any thing, they have a built in base to raise them off the bottom, The bigger the pit the longer it will last. Many switch failures are from short cycling, put a good check valve on so that the water you just pumped out doesn't refill the pit. Most pumps will work 7 to 10 yrs if you are sized right and every thing is working the way it should. Ie check valve, float for switch....Richie

 

[themiller]

Get a Zoeller m98 or m53 from sumppumpsdirect.com or amazon.com. Also get a new quiet check valve and a spare - like such http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VNWLLQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20 The cheapo HD/menards check valves will not last you more than a year or so with frequent usage.

The above is the brand I have - you will NOT hear it or any water hammer. Odd when you're used to hearing a check valve - but nice to be in a quiet house again.

Like you, my pump cycles frequently. Not a matter of pit size or depth, I just have a lot of water as I am at the bottom of the block. I plumped all my downspouts to dump right next to storm sewer and that took the majority of the "issue" away. Now my pumps only pump groundwater, not rainwater. I went through several Rigid/HD pumps, usually 2 a season before fixing my issue/switching out pumps. I now have two pits with four pumps at different heights because I am overly protective of my basement. Pumps are Zoeller m264, m267, 2x m53 - and I expect no more issues. Their only weak spot is their switches, but I have replaced a few for friends that are > 10 years old with no issues, so time will tell. You can also order just an extra switch and put it on the shelf. I had a pit with ribs on the side and that WILL hangup a piggyback/rhombus float type switch and burn out the motor - it's just a matter of time and correct circumstances.

 

[EOC_Jason]

We have a Zoeller sewage pump that has been working like a champ for over a year (knock on wood). They make all kinds, including sump pumps. I do like the external float better, but I guess that is more just personal preference and application.

 

[lametec]

during a real wet spring, it has came on about every 15 seconds & ran for about a minute & a half

What's the output hose/pipe look like (size/length/type)? For the size basin you're describing, 1-1/2 minute runtime sounds like a lot. Is the water coming into the basin at such a rate that the pump just barely manages to drain it?

I used to have a real small pit, but a few months ago I ordered one of these and busted up the concrete floor to fit it in. The result is that the sump pump runs less frequently, but longer at a time. Still well under a minute, though. I'd say under 30 seconds as well, even on the wettest of days.

 

[themiller]

I didn't see that your pump runs for 1.5 minutes. If that is the case you probably have a) too small of a pump for the amount of lift (head) or b) a 1/2 stuck check valve

 

[HMCFab9]

Thanks for the additional input!
The pump is 1/3 HP - 3800 GPH. The rise is about 8'. It's been that size for as long as I've been in this house. Maybe it is too small.
The noise from the pump & the hammer of the valve just about drive ya insane in the spring when it runs almost constantly. It will run just enough to pump all the water out, but it comes in almost as fast as it pumps out when it's raining real hard.
I am trying to improve drainage around my house, but I am somewhat limited to what I can do because of lot layout.

One other question I have is.... I live in Wisconsin, we've had one of the coldest winters on record, water lines are freezing, etc. You'd think with the ground froze as deep as it is, there wouldn't be any water coming into my sump pump.!? Where does it come from in the middle of winter?

 

[themiller]

Thanks for the additional input!
The pump is 1/3 HP - 3800 GPH. The rise is about 8'. It's been that size for as long as I've been in this house. Maybe it is too small.
The noise from the pump & the hammer of the valve just about drive ya insane in the spring when it runs almost constantly. It will run just enough to pump all the water out, but it comes in almost as fast as it pumps out when it's raining real hard.
I am trying to improve drainage around my house, but I am somewhat limited to what I can do because of lot layout.

One other question I have is.... I live in Wisconsin, we've had one of the coldest winters on record, water lines are freezing, etc. You'd think with the ground froze as deep as it is, there wouldn't be any water coming into my sump pump.!? Where does it come from in the middle of winter?

Change your check valve to the one I have listed - assuming your pipe is secure and not bouncing against your floorboards you will hear 0 water hammer. You may hear vibration. You can get rid of vibration by mounting it to your foundation - but see below about 90* elbows...

I live in N IL and get groundwater as well during the winter. Maybe every 5-15 minutes it runs. The ground is only frozen until 30" or so below the surface.

Also - 3800 GPM on a store brand 1/3 hp from my experience is a pipe dream. That is at 0ft of head most likely... When I replaced the 1/2hp Rigid I had with a 1/3hp m53 the m53 actually emptied the pit faster... Just saying.

Finally - do you have 1&1/2" coming off the pump and going all the way outside or something smaller? How many 90 degree bends do you have, and are they small or large radius? Each 90 severely diminishes pumping capacity. If you have two or more on the vertical lift portion - see what you can do to fix and/or upgrade to a better pump.

 

[HMCFab9]

Ok. I'll look into that check valve. The discharge pipe is the same diameter all the way up, but it has a 90 at the top & 2 45's toward the bottom. I'll look into how I can make that better.
Maybe just a bigger pump & bigger discharge, maybe changing the pit, but that's not as easy.