Sump pump?

[wrigh003]

Probably an unusual question, I wouldn't think a lot of you guys have water issues since most of the garages we see are built on grade. Mine's cut into a hill, hence my trouble.

I thought I had my water problem in my basement handled when I got new gutters installed this summer. Alas, I was wrong, and it turns out I don't get water in the basement unless it's REALLY been raining for a while. It's been monsoon season at my house recently, and as it turns out, I have a groundwater problem under my house- when it rains a lot over the course of a couple days, I get water in the crawlspace, and it runs out over the floor of my unfinished basement garage. Nothing down there a little water can hurt, for now, but I obviously need to fix this if we're ever going to finish that space. Immediate/short term solution is to get some more waterproofing in/on the partition wall that separates the crawlspace from the basement, but in the long term, I'm going to have to either put in a sump pump or a floor drain type arrangement there and get that handled, otherwise I'll probably never have a dry/usable basement.

Idea 1: Cheap/low-tech- cut a slot in the slab of the basement floor, dig a trench, run a 6" PVC drain pipe back into the crawlspace and hook a floor drain up with the high point below the level of the basement floor. The pipe would drain to daylight on the other side, beyond the current garage door. Pluses- nothing mechanical to break down or fail- so long as the pipe stays clear, I shouldn't ever have another water problem. Minuses- lots of cutting, trenching, and digging, and I wonder if cutting into a perfectly good floor is really a good idea.

Idea 2: More expensive- Dig a pit, stick a sump pump in it, wire it up and call it a day. On the plus side, should be relatively easy, unless I hit bedrock under my house where I want the pit (possible). Minuses, it probably wouldn't run very often, and I'd think it would have a tendency to dry up and fail/break. Also, not sure how fast a sump pump is meant to work, and I'd wonder if it would be able to keep up under a real heavy rain.

Any pointers? This morning when I pulled off the crawlspace door and stuck my head in there, I had about a foot of standing water, up to the level of the floor in the basement, and the water was starting to trickle in. Nothing I could do but close the door and go to work- the flooding rains were still coming down.

 

[Junkman]

Sump pumps have there benefits, but all those benefits are gone when the power goes out. If you want to resolve the problem permanently, you have to figure out a way to move the water away from the building permanently. Too many buildings are built on grade, and the water will go to the lowest point, in which in this case is the building cellar. If you can grade the existing landscape away from the building, this will help. The next best thing is to dig down to the bottom of the foundation, and install drain pipe around the whole building, and then have that pipe go to daylight at a lower part of the property. Without seeing a picture of the property, that might not be an option. The best method is to always have the water move away from the building without mechanical means involved. As for cost, all these solutions are going to be somewhat expensive, since mechanical digging is necessary. You will also need crushed stone on top of the pipe, so material costs are also involved. Some people chase water problems for the life of the home, because of various reasons, from not wanting to spend the money up front, to there is no easy solution due to the lay of the land. My parents home had a water problem that took a long time to resolve. It was only after I suggest that we put a pipe at the back of the house along the foundation bottom was the problem resolved. The house sat on a hill, and there was a basement window that had a half round well around it. When it rained, the window well would fill with water and flood the cellar. This was resolved when the soil at window well was removed and was replaced with crushed stone and drain pipes connected to the perimeter drain at the footing. Then it was directed to a lower part of the property where it exited on the lawn 10 feet from the street. The town wouldn't allow it to be dumped directly on the street, hence the outlet on the lawn. After that modification, an always damp basement was now totally dry. This should have been done when the house was built, but no one realized that there was going to be a problem during construction.

 

[kbs2244]

I like idea number one.
It will work when the power is out.

But make sure all your gutters are big enough and drain pipes routed all the way to the low side of the house.

 

[Junkman]

In all cases you want to stop the water before it gets under the floor. If the water gets under the floor, it will eventually move the soil under the floor creating voids. This is the reason to catch the water at the outside perimeter. This is also the reason we pour garage floors on compacted material..

 

[tdkkart]

when it rains a lot over the course of a couple days, I get water in the crawlspace,

You need to fix the problem at the source of the problem, not after it gets to it's final resting place.
Where is the water in the crawlspace coming from??
Obviously it's coming from the sky and then somehow finding it's way under the house, and this is the route you need to find and stop.

You've installed downspouts which was a good first step, that will collect and manage the water that falls directly on the house. What you need to look for next is the groundwater that is encroaching on your house and stop that.
Tiling and surface grading will likely fix the problem.

 

[Thomarann]

You need to fix the problem at the source of the problem, not after it gets to it's final resting place.

Stop it raining somehow?

We had some water issues until I dug the compacted clay out of a window well and replaced the clogged tiny drain with two big 4" drains and filled the whole window well with drainage rock and gravel.

Being Paranoid I then added a real battery backup sump pump: "The Protector 4000" (scroll down mid-way on this page) - dorky name but it is not a toy. Uses a huge marine battery that charges automatically and alarms when the battery needs replacing (should last 2 - 3 years) and when it is running on battery power. I also dropped the second sump pump that came with this kit in the pit higher than the other one so if the first pump can't keep up, the second will kick in and help out (piped out through it's own outlet pipe). Of course, without power, the one higher pump runs by itself once the water level gets high enough.

Accidentally tested it last spring when a brain-dead electrician wired a new plug in the basement for us and left the circuit for the sump pump turned off -- the backup one kicked in and ran for 2 days until I went in the basement and heard the alarm.

Marc

 

[wrigh003]

We'll see- I think the problem is bigger than drain tile. I could be wrong, but I think there is groundwater coming into the crawlspace from under the house, as opposed to from the walls. See, my house is built on a hill, and the garage is on the downhill side. Much as I'd love to dry the whole thing up with some drain tile and rock, I don't know that I'll be able to do that. I'll be investigating more tonight to try and see where the water's coming in, though.

I'm afraid it may be running in from under the school-bus-sized boulder that caused my house to have a half basement instead of a full.

 

[jjkrjh]

My father in-law had a similar issue with a bi-level home. For years, when it rained hard water would come up thru the floor on the lowest level. Always, thought it was ground water also.

There is a hill behind the house that is angled towards the house with a small swell. Between the house and the swell is a concrete patio. We had an extremely heavy rain that ran past the swell, over top of the patio and into the house. To control the heavy rain we cut a ditch and filled with perforated tile and gravel.(in the swell area) The water was run around the house.

12 years of getting water in the basement, and now its dry. Water was always contained in the swell. Only the one time was it bypassed. No signs of any water past the swell ever, but it was getting under the house somewhere. The swell is 25ft from the house.

Water could be following any underground utilities coming to the house also. I found that out when we connected to the sewer. Their clay dams didn't work very well.

Finding the source would be the best on getting the right fix. Sometimes you get lucky like we did with my father in-laws. We thought we were fixing the huge rain issues- but we fixed it completely. Next rain put your raincoat on and see what you can find. goodluck