Sump pumps

[dragonballz]

How is it dealing with a sump pump? Does it freeze in the winter?

I'm going to an open house tomorrow and there's a sump pump. Should I stay away?

It's in the basement. Fieldstone foundation

 

[Richard Cranium]

Where is the water coming from that the pump is removing?
Where is it located at? "ie in a basement?

 

[fitz11]

A sump pump is a good thing to have. If keeps water from backing up into your basement. my sump pump runs infrequently and has never had an issue in Wisconsin winters.

 

[Joe B.]

The sump pump is no big deal and probably a necessity if there is a basement. You always want a battery-powered backup if there is not one in place already. That will run you a few hundred dollars. The thing to check for is if the sump pump is ever failed resulting in a basement flood and possible mold.

 

[tomroblee]

In my area the building codes require having sump pump(s) when you have a basement. The ideal situation is to have a sump pump that never comes on because it isn't needed. If the pump runs often, it's a good idea to have multiple pumps (including battery powered) as back-up in case the primary pump fails or there is a power outage. If all the pumps fail, you won't be happy.

It's unlikely that the pumps located in a basement will freeze, but you should be comfortable about how/where the discharge water is routed. A discharge pipe that is buried in the yard could freeze or get clogged by tree roots.

Many houses with crawl spaces also have sump pumps. It's best to have a dry crawl space where a pump isn't needed. If this isn't possible, there are the same concerns as having pump(s) in a basement. Having water stand in a crawl space for a short period of time will probably cause less damage than having a flooded basement. The problem is that a flooded basement is likely to be noticed fairly quickly. Water standing in a crawl space may not be noticed for months or years. If there is a sump pump installed in a crawl space, it was put there for a reason. If you buy the home, you need to be willing and able to frequently inspect/monitor the pump's operation to be sure that it is doing its job.

 

[WQ59B]

If I lived with a basement prone to flooding, in an area where the power went out frequently, and I didn't have a generator, I suppose I would consider a battery backup. Depends on a number of factors. Plumber friend says he does not recommend them.

But in general, consider a sump pump like roof shingles; a preventative measure, not a sign that it's going to flood. I'd make sure the pump is properly set up tho.

 

[rodm1]

I personally wouldn't buy a house that has high enough water table to require two pumps or runs often to keep the basement from flooding it will eventually. Around here lots of people get flooded basement do to bad pumps, power outages or it can't keep up.

I'm on city water now but where I live we never had a problem with the water table it only turned on when we used the house water. Depending where you live it could be a probblem or not check with the neighbors.

 

[WQ59B]

"I'm on city water now but where I live we never had a problem with the water table it only turned on when we used the house water."

Unless I'm mis-reading your intent; your water source and the water table have nothing to do with one another in this context.

 

[Jlbc212]

How is it dealing with a sump pump? Does it freeze in the winter?

I'm going to an open house tomorrow and there's a sump pump. Should I stay away?

As others have said, a sump pump can be a good thing and not necessarily a cause for concern. If the house has a full basement, it is highly unlikely you would have any freezing issues. Sump pumps are located down below the basement floor where temps usually remain stready (cool in summer/cool, but not cold, in winter). This has been a relatively dry winter in Massachusetts. My sump pump which would normally run a couple of times a day this time of year, hasn't run yet this year.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Battery backup sump pumps are overrated. When running on the battery the pump capacity is vastly reduced and the battery doesn't run the pump for long, either. They're best when used as a really short term emergency pump to cover the period it takes you to get a genny running or find another 120V power source for the primary pump. If your situation is one where the pump routinely cycles all the time, (like my cousin) once you lose power it's not a matter of IF you'll get wet but WHEN.

Tommy

 

[astroracer]

Like was said prior, having a sump pump is no reason to not buy a house. It is better to have one and not need it then to have none and eventually need it.
I am in Michigan. My property has a high water table. Right now, with lots of snow melt and rain, my pump runs every five to ten minutes. The house is a bi-level with about 42" of basement. Because of this I DO have a generator. It would take about 8 hrs of no pump to start being concerned about flooding. Hasn't happened in the 31 years since we built the place.
Mark

 

[Showkey]

I would be far more concerned if a home did not have a sump pump.

Many sump pumps never run, or only run in large rains or only run at the spring thaw. Some homes the sump may run every few minutes year round. It is extremely variable. So variable ......home across the street from each other may see this see this variance.

Many codes require two or three sumps.....one for ground water, one for floor drains and or gray or black water.

Simple inspection and observation and few questions of the owner can determine the sump situation.

 

[dragonballz]

The sump pump is in the basement. It has a fieldstone foundation.

Does the discharge usually freeze?

What should I look for during the open house? What questions should I ask? I'm going to look for a waterline/mold on the foundation walls.

Thanks

 

[CNGsaves]

If you live in high-water area (sump runs a lot) . . . plus . . you have electrical outages . . . . then pretty fail-safe solution is water pressure driven sump pump. The city water pressure drives the sump pump.

 

[Showkey]

Most field stone foundations are not water tight. If there is a water issue in the area the walls will show the water entry and leakage. Field stone in it self has it own issues vs poured or block walls.

I have seen water running across the basement floor in basements that were being shown for sale..........not a good selling point but it is what it is and often wet basements are not used as living space.

Many states have a full disclosure statements when the home is listed that includes water leakage and other known water or foundation issues. Simply ask....does the basement leak (floor or walls) is it damp, does it smell musty.......does the sump run.

If you get serious about the property you can get info and disclosure in writing. Really serious have the contract pending inspection by engineering firm specially in water concerns. Considering you just looking your way ahead of your self.

If a sump needs to run in the winter.........protection and design against freezing must be considered. Slope on the run off pipe is the easy and simple solution to freezing.

 

[tomroblee]

Homeowners usually won't put up with a sump pump discharge that freezes. They either find a solution or sell the house. As Showkey said, slope is the best solution. Sufficient slope may be a problem is the lot is flat as a pancake.

In my area (Indiana) stone foundations are rare in homes built during in my lifetime---- and I'm a geezer. I can't remember seeing a sump pump when I was small, but I do remember a lot of wet basements. The older homes that I have owned didn't have sump pumps, but they did have floors that sloped to floor drains. (It was a real mess when tree roots blocked the drain lines and/or the sewers backed up.)

I'm guessing that the sump pump in the home you are considering was added some time after the house was built. It was probably added because it was needed.

The attached short video is an example of how waterproofing companies now install interior drains and sump pumps to control water seepage.

I'm not sure what you should ask at an open house. The homeowner will not normally be at the open house to answer questions. The real estate agent may not know (or may not want to know) specifics about when and why the sump pump was installed and whether it is controlling all the water issues.

I think that you should have a professional inspect the basement if, and only if, you are seriously considering buying the house.

 

[dragonballz]

Thanks for all the info!

I went to the open house. The hole this sump pump sat in was bone dry. The house also had a french drain. There was no musty smell in the basement. There was a dehumidifier.

Unfortunately, the garage is tiny and there is no room to expand it.

 

[BCKinVT]

I think something to consider about sump pumps is the installation. I'm in Southern Vermont and when I purchased my home (with a 48" crawlspace) it had a sump pump stuck in a 5 gallon bucket drilled with holes and a 1" hose sticking through the foundation. In 2008, I upgraded the system by installing the sump pump in a 20 gallon perforated sump basin, connected to 1.5" PVC which dumps into a 4" PVC drain pipe that is buried and runs 15' to an area which slopes down and away from the house. I also installed a Tjernlund crawlspace fan, so to prevent freezing, the fan is turned off from November through April (and the foundation vents are also closed for the winter).

I've never had the pump freeze even though the crawlspace is unheated.

 

[ford33]

I live in suburban Chicago and have had the sump pump outlet pipe freeze once in 20 years and once get blocked due to high water in the pond next to my home. The sump water exits to the pond. Both cases resulted in substantial damage to carpet and drywall and some personal belongings in the basement.

Blocking the pump exit pipe results in the sump pump working but no water exiting from the well due to the frozen or blocked outlet pipe. If this is not fixed, the sump well continues to fill with water and the well water will overflow onto the basement floor or in one case ground water will rise around the foundation and will enter from the perimeter of the basement walls. I have had this happen.

The solution is not complex but requires some additional piping and money and thought. People here may say this is extreme but I speak from experience. It is no fun to have to redo carpet, drywall, paint after even a minor sump pump failure.

This is my sump pump configuration:
1. Have two sump pumps. One is my primary 120 v pump connected to a dedicated electrical circuit. I don't want to trip a kitchen or bathroom breaker and lose power to my pump so it is on a separate circuit.

2. Install an excellent quality battery backup pump with a separate battery powered high water alarm you can hear from upstairs. I threw away my Watchdog backup when the controller failed and did not warn me. I found out it failed during my twice yearly test. Make it a point to check the battery and float and run the pumps twice a year and especially in the spring and middle of winter.

3. Use two separate PVC pipes for the pump outlets. One exit pipe per pump. This will prevent a single point of failure due to a frozen or blocked pipe. I also install the second pipe running a different direction from the other pipe when it exits the house in case one area is prone to snow build-up or is a colder area than the other side of house.

4. Terminate the 2 inch pump pipe at the outside of the house with a 90 degree elbow pointing to the ground but at least 12 inches above the ground. Then use a larger 3 inch PVC pipe pointing up and aligned with the elbow but separated from it with about a 2 or 3 inch air space. You will need to support the larger pipe so it doesn't roll over. This design allows water to flow out of the pump pipe down and across the air gap and then into the larger 3 inch pipe. The 3 inch pipe is then routed to wherever you want the sump water to go. The air gap across the pipes provides a means for water to flow from the smaller pump pipe and exit the well even if the 3 inch pipe is frozen with water.

5. Do not ignore high water levels in the well. If the water level in my well is within 9 inches of the floor, you should make sure your pumps work and check the well frequently through the day. I have a spare pump, float and electrical connectors to allow me to use my car batter if the situation arises.

Sump pumps are not bad but require your attention and maintenance.

 

[trukkins10]

If you live in high-water area (sump runs a lot) . . . plus . . you have electrical outages . . . . then pretty fail-safe solution is water pressure driven sump pump. The city water pressure drives the sump pump.

^ Definitely do this. Battery sumps are useless. Main problem is lack of maintenance on the owners part. Battery has to be replaced every so often. If city loses water pressure, there's bigger problems at stake than. Basepump.com Easy install, no batteries, "maintenance free". I test mine monthly. Both my main and back up discharge into city sewer line, piped in by the builder.

 

[info2x]

3. Use two separate PVC pipes for the pump outlets. One exit pipe per pump. This will prevent a single point of failure due to a frozen or blocked pipe. I also install the second pipe running a different direction from the other pipe when it exits the house in case one area is prone to snow build-up or is a colder area than the other side of house.

Have the second one drain such that you will see it. This way if the alarm fails the actual use of the pump will be noticeable. My second discharges very visibly by the kitchen.

 

[engineer2]

I put a PVC cross outside the house at the pump discharge.
Pointing down is my long discharge hose which is connected all the time.
Pointing straight out is a short winter discharge pipe which I remove and cap off in the summer.
Pointing up is an inverted sump pump check valve. Water pressure closes it, otherwise it is open and allows the outside lines to self-drain to help prevent freeze ups.

 

[LB-1911]

Thanks for all the info!

I went to the open house. The hole this sump pump sat in was bone dry. The house also had a french drain. There was no musty smell in the basement. There was a dehumidifier.

Unfortunately, the garage is tiny and there is no room to expand it.

The search continues-

Good Luck