Sun 1215 Computer II analyzer - anyone with schematics or technical expertise?

[GeneralDisorder]

Recently picked up a Sun Computer II model 1215.

When fired up it displays a full screen of meaningless characters and flashes off then back on (quickly - like you hit a reset button) every couple seconds but that is all it does. Appears to have power to the CPU, and obviously the CRT is working and the computer is doing *something* in order to display actual characters but what it displays is meaningless - letters, numbers, and symbols - always the same set of them but without any information that means anything to me.... I was a software engineer in a former life but what it displays is not anything I recognize.

I removed and cleaned all the boards for the computer and the scope - nothing appears to be burnt or letting any smoke out.

I really don't know where to turn other than the internet for ideas here - can't find much information on this machine nor any troubleshooting or schematics. Hoping maybe there's someone out there that has some experience with these things or knows how I should call? I have a couple friends that are electronics guys that I can call upon and probably will but I figured I would ask here since the majority of internet discussion concerning old Sun analyzers seems to reside here.

Thanks!
Rick

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Anyone want to save me from poking through this thing with no information at all? Very possible that I'm going to probe the processor and step through its code.... Probably download its ROM if its still viable... If not perhaps write new code.... Really hope I don't have to go that far.

GD

 

[oldgoaly]

Take lots of pics and notes cause there will be others looking for info for years to come.

 

[MBfreak]

Hi
I love SUN test equipment, the bigger , the better. I have not worked on or with the type you refer to, SUN 1215 II, however.

But I would nevertheless be pretty sure that the main problem may be the power supply parts and the electrolytic capacitors there.

Get hold of a friend with decent electronic hardware skills, a DVM and a scope.
Suss out the supply voltages and how they are "produced" . If you are not sure, try to post some decent quality pics here.
Quite often, the PCB that contain the power supply section is labelled with the voltages. Typical voltages for the computer part would be 5,00 V at Imax 5 Amps, +12V, - 12 V ( alt +15V- -15V) for analog input amplifiers and AD converters and maybe +24V for some relays.

Try to locate the supply voltages and DVM and scope them. Also study the capacitors. If they are swollen and/or has leaked, replace.

Depending on the age of the unit it either has a mains frequency transformer with several secondaries and several rectifiers/stabilizers, or it may be of the more modern and much smaller deign where the mains volatge is rectified, storage thru a 350 microF 400 V capacitor ( that can bite you!!) and feeds a primary chopper (MOSFET, HF transformer and ctrl crcts) with several secondaries that are rectified and feeds the supply voltages.

A fairly common ailment is for the computer part to be able to marginally start up on a weak +5Vsupply ( which may be reduced in another chopper down to +3,3V with lots of electrolytics close to the CPU). Once it starts to execute the software current draw goes up, voltage drops and the CPU reboots, and so it goes on.

Please do not abandon this tester, any SUN equipment is worth saving.

And, the main electronics " Go To Guy " at Sun has been active on this Board. He may be able to help out wih schematics.



Best regards

Ola

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Very much appreciated! I will direct my electronics buddies at the power supplies first and foremost - I also noted some ugly looking ground points so I will certainly address those.

I don't plan on abandoning it - its quite a capable machine and I'm told it sold for $42,000 back in '79. I have the printer for it (a $6k add-on) as well as a full roll of actual Sun watermarked printer paper for it. I'm hoping to do a restoration once its proven its operability.

Rick

 

[MBfreak]

Hi again.

Did some searches on your machine, and I am sad to ay that after having restored a similar unit with lots of work, I scrapped it, sinc it took up space and I could not even give it away.

The power supply in your unit is a standard mains frequency transformer and has a +15V unit at some 3 A, a-15 V unit at the same and a +5,00 at 15 A.
There is probably also an unregulated supply.
The structure of the electronics is :
A computer that runs at 2MHz and comprises around 5 large PCBs.
An input unit that contains A/D conertors , an AIM, a DIM and sundry parts, such as logic for cylinder shut off for "compression" testing while engine runs.
An analog input conditioner for vacuum, voltage, current clamp and temp sensors, also the HV clamps for ignition
An oscilloscope to display ignition waveforms, that can also show output
from a lambda sensor, the cranking amps , control signal to a KE Jet actuator.

The second "TV" is used to supervise the startup/auto calibration routines and when ready after 15 minutes it shows the diagnostic values in alpha-numerical form.

So, all in all a very competent unit, but today it is hoplessly oudated.
But Cooool.
I did try to palm mine off, even here on GJ, but shipping from Sweden...

However, I salvaged the HC/CO bench, hooked it up to pots for calibration and mA-meters for display, and that unit is used weekly!


Ola

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Great info and thanks a bunch! I will take some pictures of the process of getting it up and running again.

I realize it's outdated equipment but perhaps not completely hopeless....Here in the US there's a large number of vintage car enthusiasts and this kind of a machine can do things like cylinder balance testing and performance balance testing on each cylinder and other things like the gas bench components that I feel have been somewhat lost in the translation from analog to digital hardware - These days a quality gas bench will cost 5 to 10 times what I paid for this machine and the hardware in this unit is of a build quality that is unmatched in modern equipment. Besides that it's SOOOO COOOOOL! It lights up and looks great in the shop.

I will proceed with testing the power supplies first and let you know what comes of that testing. Hopefully that's all she needs is some power supply help. One thing I didn't mention that would seem to point to power supply issues also is that one of the solenoid valves in the back of the machine opens and closes and buzzes seemingly at random when you turn on the unit. Guessing it's not getting enough current to keep it happy when energized....

Rick

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Update - checked out the voltages and I'm getting solid +/-12v and 5v signals both at the power supplies and at the computer....

So I guess my question is: How sure are you that these should be +/-15v supplies? Because if that's the case then I'm definitely not getting the requisite voltage. When powered up the voltages come up a little slow from about 11.5v to about 12.5v and then stabilize there.

Rick

 

[MBfreak]

Memory at my age is a precarious thing.
I seem to recall that it was + and - 15 V for the large power supply , but it can just as well be + and - 12 V. Statistically , if the + and - are both the same level , the power supply is likely OK if the 5,00 is spot on.
The solenoid valves run on mains AC, if they are noisy it is most likely due to contamination.Thet are easy to disconnect and overhaul

Ola

 

[xwarp]

I've got a Sun 1011 that the scope doesn't work on. I've not had a lot of time to mess with it other than check voltages from the supply.

I'd love to get it to work, but am probably going to haul it off and use it as target practice since no one seems to have schematics for it.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I talked with a great guy named Bob Masters in KY today. He used to work for Sun and has a wealth of knowledge and manuals! I have ordered both the service manual for my machine ($35) and the service manual for the printer ($20) plus $5 shipping. He suggested that I pry up each of the IC's from their DIP sockets on the computer boards and reseat them - I did this but it did not help my situation. I'm awaiting the manuals and should I need some replacement circuit boards he may have what I need.

Anyone needing Sun equipment information, parts, manuals, etc should definitely contact Bob:

http://www.distributortester.com/

GD

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I have the service manual now and it seems that - for my symptoms - it specifies that I swap out three of the computer boards in succession to narrow down the source of the problem.

If ANYONE out there could help with locating parts I would greatly appreciate it. I have purchased the boards that Bob could locate but I do not have all of the ones required for the testing it wishes me to perform. I have a couple ROM boards coming and an MUX A/D board.

These are the boards I'm interested in. Computer slot #, Description, Part Number, and Revision:

Slot 15, CRT Controller, 7001-0121, Revision G.

Slot 16, MUX A/D, 7001-0122, Revision E.

Slot 17, Digital I/O, 7001-0206, Revision B.

Slot 20, CPU/RAM, 7001-0124, Revision C. (Manual states this should be "Rev. E or later per service bulletin # 355" which I don't have for reference.)

Slot 21, ROM, 7001-0125, Revision E. (I assume this is the printer capable ROM - the manual gives 7001-0194 as the substitution with no reference to printers or other differences.)

Slot 22, Pre-Processor, 7001-0120, Revision H.

Would anyone have or know where there might be a parts machine, or other encouraging information? I'm going to sort this out one way or another but having working spare boards would make the process much easier.

Rick

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Anyone at all? Any leads to folks with parts appreciated!

GD

 

[blksheep]

I know this is an older thread, but having just joined and read it, here is my two cents worth. Yet another Sun parts and repair facility in located in Tamarac, Florida.
Call Gary at Ader, Inc., 954-722-6849 or visit his site at timinglightfix.com, or email him at [email protected]. I found him to be very helpful and knowledgeable.

Hope this helps,
blksheep...in Charlotte

P.S.........Please don't discard or destroy any old or broken Sun equipment as these units can never be replaced with new pieces. In some cases, these repair facilities can repair your old parts or may even want to buy them.
You wouldn't throw away a set of '63 Vette hubcaps cause the didn't fit your Honda,...would you??
If you answered yes to that last question,...there is no reason for furthering this conversation.

 

[blksheep]

This is an attempt to revive this thread in hopes that at least some of you Sun Equipment owners out there will see it. If you have owned or currently own Sun Equipment, then you have accepted and understand the obsession with owning more. And they ain't gettin any easier to find, so the time to buy them is when you see them for sale. As I mentioned in the thread just above this one, Gary at Ader, Inc in Tamarac, Fl has parts and is a full service facility at decent prices.
This pic, BTW, is in my garage.
Got Sun?? Tell us about it and show it here.

 

[Fullraceflathead]

This is an attempt to revive this thread in hopes that at least some of you Sun Equipment owners out there will see it. If you have owned or currently own Sun Equipment, then you have accepted and understand the obsession with owning more. And they ain't gettin any easier to find, so the time to buy them is when you see them for sale. As I mentioned in the thread just above this one, Gary at Ader, Inc in Tamarac, Fl has parts and is a full service facility at decent prices.
This pic, BTW, is in my garage.
Got Sun?? Tell us about it and show it here.

Thanks!
You helped me find another source for parts for my Sun Computer II 1215 machine if I ever need them.

 

[InterceptorIII]

I also have a Sun Computer II 1215 in my garage. I purchased it from a person that was moving and he said he was pretty sure it worked good. I have not been able to work on it or try it out. I did not receive any manuals either. It does power up, the Sun Computer lights up and the left monitor does have a sine wave across it. The right monitor is blank. I have a mass of cables also plus a timing light. Due to health reasons I would like to get rid of it as I will never be able to use it.

 

[mike4514]

I realize this is an old post, but I am hoping General Disorder, Rick will see this post. I have a 1215 that I have used for years, since about 1983, and it has failed. I am looking for a service manual to repair it but the info on this page seems to be outdated. I am a board level tech so repairing it shouldn't be a problem...if I can find a service manual. If someone could point to a person that sells them or if someone would make me a copy, I am willing to pay a reasonable fee. Thanks so much. Mike [email protected]

 

[mike4514]

Problem Fixed: I thought I would update this with what I found wrong and what it took to repair it. My 1215 recently failed, the computer screen went black and then would occasionally show white retrace line across it. When I would power it up I could hear the relays click and the "#" seem to cause more relays to click. On the back of the computer section, the tall ckt boards, there is a 4 wire plug, that is the power plug, the wire on the far right is the ground. I checked for +5 volts, found +5.7 volts...close enough. Next I checked for +12 volts, found +12.5 volts, close enough and finally I checked for -12 volts, I found -13.2 volts, again close enough. Now I know the power supplies are working correctly. Since I could hear the relays kicking in and out after power up and the # key worked, I knew the processor was firing up. The tell tail problem is when I would tap on the case or on any of the boards, the screen would show some flickers of light or would change in the light they produced. The 2 wire connector on the back of the computer case, big cards, is the video out. It is simple composite video, the same as used on modern TV's, so I connected the computer to a TV, I got the same video results. I hooked the composite out of a dvd player to the monitor, wires going to the screen, the monitor played the movie. So now I know the monitor is working. On the display board, #15, there is a 6.2250 crystal, a metal can looking thing. This is the reference oscillator. It was bad, I replaced it and the unit returned to normal operation. Some times you can check the crystal by lightly tapping on it, if you see a change in the monitor or if the monitor works briefly then there is a good chance the crystal has gone bad. Well i hope this may help someone else out in the future. Take care all. Mike

 

[letienne3757]

To make the 12, -12, & 5 volt power supplys easier to adjust I changed the adjustment pot to a 20 turn pot(Digi CT94EZ102-ND). I also changed the two 50K pots used to zero the HC and CO on the IR bench (R123 & R223) to 20 turn pots(Digi 490-2889-nd). I also made a schematic for the IR bench board.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Sun 'Scopes are useless on anything that does NOT have a distributor and a single coil. Cool technology for cars prior to about the mid 1980s.

 

[engineer2]

There is a Yahoo group on engine analyzers. Info is spotty, but you never know what you might find.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/engineanalyzers/info

 

[mike4514]

Thank you for posting the link to the yahoo groups, Now my timing light has stopped working... if its not one thing its another. lol

 

[rcourtem]

Try Jeff Mattson in MN, he has lots of documentation for older Sun stuff.

(320) 279-3491

 

[gnpenning]

Glad to see this old thread. I picked up a sun 1215 awhile back. Everything but the exhaust analyzer work. It says it needs calibration. Does anyone have any information on how to calibrate the exhaust analyzer?

As I have multiple vehicles that have distributors I would love to keep this thing going and would be interested in some cables and accessories, boards, etc. Don't need another printer,but maybe interested in paper.

 

[rcourtem]

Try Jeff for info on calibrating your gas bench, see two posts back.

 

[gnpenning]

Try Jeff for info on calibrating your gas bench, see two posts back.

Will do, thanks. I tried the link and some older information so far that is no longer available.

I think I need to be with the scope so I can try what he suggests.

 

[jas2fast72]

Recently picked up a Sun Computer II model 1215.

When fired up it displays a full screen of meaningless characters and flashes off then back on (quickly - like you hit a reset button) every couple seconds but that is all it does. Appears to have power to the CPU, and obviously the CRT is working and the computer is doing *something* in order to display actual characters but what it displays is meaningless - letters, numbers, and symbols - always the same set of them but without any information that means anything to me.... I was a software engineer in a former life but what it displays is not anything I recognize.

I removed and cleaned all the boards for the computer and the scope - nothing appears to be burnt or letting any smoke out.

I really don't know where to turn other than the internet for ideas here - can't find much information on this machine nor any troubleshooting or schematics. Hoping maybe there's someone out there that has some experience with these things or knows how I should call? I have a couple friends that are electronics guys that I can call upon and probably will but I figured I would ask here since the majority of internet discussion concerning old Sun analyzers seems to reside here.

Thanks!
Rick

Hello Rick,
I have a 1215 and I need schematics for the boards. Do you know where I can get some?

Thank you