To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Sun 506 Distributor machine

mrpowderkeg

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
776
Location
Bismarck North Dakota
So I've been playing with this distributor machine, trying to figure out why it won't work, and after getting some documents and a wiring diagram, I finally figured out the problem. It had two bad diodes, one diode that had a bad solder joint, a bad capacitor, and the bulb was shot. BUT I finally got it working! The interesting thing is that this one is a xenon strobe, and most are neon. Here it is in action:
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Brad54

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
4,646
I just got my 404 up and running.

And i feel I have to point out that YOU SHUT THE THING OFF WITH THE DRIVE WHEEL ENGAGED!!!
NEVER shut it off with the drive wheel engaged! You'll flat-spot the tire. And even worse is starting it with the drive wheel engaged.

I'd like to fine a 504, 505 or 506 machine, as I think I'd benefit from having the coil and condenser tester. I feel like the 400-series was really more at home in the speed shops where they were primarily recurving.

What kind of distributor was that in the machine?

-Brad
 
OP
M

mrpowderkeg

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
776
Location
Bismarck North Dakota
Yeah the wheel on mine had a bad spot, BUT you can turn the wheel around and sometimes that takes care of the problem. I had to true mine up on the lathe, but cutting a little bit off doesn't affect the rpm tach or any functions. The dizzy is just a early 70s motorcraft one for 289/302, I use it to run engines on my test stand.

These machines work by simulating an ignition system (for lack time giving a more in depth answer) and instead of firing an ignition coil you are flashing a light, much like a timing light. On a 8cyl engine you will have 8 arrows around the degree wheel, a 6cyl will have 6 arrows, one for each time the distributor sends a signal to fire the coil. This allows you to visually see when the coil fires, and it also allows you to see how much mechanical or vacuum advance the distributor has, and at what rpm it starts to advance the timing. In the video the distributor has 15 deg mechanical advance, I also checked the vac advance (not on the video) and that is also 15 degrees. These machines makes it easy to change weights, springs, and other internal components in the distributor and then check to see what affect it had on how fast or slow the mechanical or vacuum advance come in, and how much advance is added or removed.

The goal is to adjust the ignition curve ( amount, and rate of mechanical/vacuum advance) to what an engine likes, in order properly fine tune an engine. Most people just plop in a distributor and are mostly concerned with total timing, a properly curved distributor will make tuning a whole lot easier, and the engine will be snappier (is that a word?). :beer:
 

Toolhorder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
5,711
Location
Montana
Yeah the wheel on mine had a bad spot, BUT you can turn the wheel around and sometimes that takes care of the problem. I had to true mine up on the lathe, but cutting a little bit off doesn't affect the rpm tach or any functions. The dizzy is just a early 70s motorcraft one for 289/302, I use it to run engines on my test stand.

These machines work by simulating an ignition system (for lack time giving a more in depth answer) and instead of firing an ignition coil you are flashing a light, much like a timing light. On a 8cyl engine you will have 8 arrows around the degree wheel, a 6cyl will have 6 arrows, one for each time the distributor sends a signal to fire the coil. This allows you to visually see when the coil fires, and it also allows you to see how much mechanical or vacuum advance the distributor has, and at what rpm it starts to advance the timing. In the video the distributor has 15 deg mechanical advance, I also checked the vac advance (not on the video) and that is also 15 degrees. These machines makes it easy to change weights, springs, and other internal components in the distributor and then check to see what affect it had on how fast or slow the mechanical or vacuum advance come in, and how much advance is added or removed.

The goal is to adjust the ignition curve ( amount, and rate of mechanical/vacuum advance) to what an engine likes, in order properly fine tune an engine. Most people just plop in a distributor and are mostly concerned with total timing, a properly curved distributor will make tuning a whole lot easier, and the engine will be snappier (is that a word?). :beer:

Thanks for the explaination, that's kind of what I thought but wanted to make sure. It's funny the old guys in the shops I've worked in hate computers and the younger guys like me never worked on points ignitions or distributors much besides just replacing a cap and rotor.
These machines were long gone when I started my career in the late 90's.
 

RM209

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
892
Location
MD
Powderkeg: excellent video. That is one great looking Sun machine. I used to see them as a kid in garages, but never saw one in action.

Thanks,
RM209
 
OP
M

mrpowderkeg

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
776
Location
Bismarck North Dakota
Thanks for the explaination, that's kind of what I thought but wanted to make sure. It's funny the old guys in the shops I've worked in hate computers and the younger guys like me never worked on points ignitions or distributors much besides just replacing a cap and rotor.
These machines were long gone when I started my career in the late 90's.

Yeah the old guys know what they are, but never passed down their knowledge. Us younger (and I'm not young by any means) guys have been building engines with crappy distributors and improper curves since most of us have never seen one, and we don't know how to really tune an ignition system. I'm in the process of acquiring a Sun Scope, I don't know what model, since the guy has several, but I want to make a setup where I test whole ignition systems, most of us blindly bolt on a MSD setup, or drop in a plug and play HEI and say great now I've got a hot ignition system. I wanna test it to make sure it put out what the company says it will. So with the distributor machine and a Scope I should have most everything to do this... Though I may end up purchasing a dedicated electronics oscilloscope for this as well.
 

Brad54

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
4,646
You can also find out if the shaft bushings are worn--the arrows will bounce around a little, or they'll be off a few degrees from one another.

On the distributor for my wife's daily driver Corvair, I found the bushing was worn, but more importantly the mechanical advance wasn't coming in at all, and to compound matters the vacuum advance can was so stiff it wasn't coming in either. So the car was running with the 18-degrees initial advance the timing was set at, and getting nothing else.
I attributed it nosing over at the top of a shift to point bounce. I also couldn't understand why everyone was saying how high their Corvairs will rev. I don't have a tach in it, but they were talking 4500-5000, and I KNOW this thing wasn't going above 3600.

I can't wait to get the engine swap finished and get the thing on the road.

I also can't wait to find a pulse amplifier so I can do the HEI in my '61 Suburban.
-Brad
 

Bruce Lancaster

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
1,642
Hey! I bought the new issue of "Hot Rod Deluxe last night at Barnes and Noble. Big article on these machines and info on a company that sells parts, manuals, etc.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Toolhorder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
5,711
Location
Montana
You can also find out if the shaft bushings are worn--the arrows will bounce around a little, or they'll be off a few degrees from one another.

On the distributor for my wife's daily driver Corvair, I found the bushing was worn, but more importantly the mechanical advance wasn't coming in at all, and to compound matters the vacuum advance can was so stiff it wasn't coming in either. So the car was running with the 18-degrees initial advance the timing was set at, and getting nothing else.
I attributed it nosing over at the top of a shift to point bounce. I also couldn't understand why everyone was saying how high their Corvairs will rev. I don't have a tach in it, but they were talking 4500-5000, and I KNOW this thing wasn't going above 3600.

I can't wait to get the engine swap finished and get the thing on the road.

I also can't wait to find a pulse amplifier so I can do the HEI in my '61 Suburban.
-Brad

Brad,
Have you checked out Petronics kits? I have one in my 56 Chevy Truck and it's night and day and cheaper than an HEI.
 

oldgoaly

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
395
Location
Shiloh, Il
Check out GMCBubba's electronic ignition tech on the Hamb. I don't have my mid-50 Sun going, use my mid 60's Allen.
 

Packard V8

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
7,380
Location
Spokane, WA
use my mid 60's Allen.

I've got an Allen, also. Almost cried when the beautiful, accurate vacuum gauge died. If anyone ever sees a parts unit Allen, I'll pay shipping just to get the vacuum gauge.

jack vines
 

groucho

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Messages
182
There's a really good article on those machines in the new Hot Rod Deluxe
 

HookWorse

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
490
Location
Iowa
Thanks for the explaination, that's kind of what I thought but wanted to make sure. It's funny the old guys in the shops I've worked in hate computers and the younger guys like me never worked on points ignitions or distributors much besides just replacing a cap and rotor.
These machines were long gone when I started my career in the late 90's.


That is a nice machine. Ahhh...the old days. Distributors with both mechanical AND vacuum advance, points, and that little silver thingy that looks like an M-80. And carburetors. How many modern techs know the intricasies of all that technology? :)
 

Big Bad Jon

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
719
Wow I haven't seen one of those since I was in college. I love it! Damn DIS systems they took away all the cool stuff and replaced them with computers. :(
 

240zip

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
20
thanks for the video, it was helpful when I got mine. these are very cool ... if you have the space
 

diesel research

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
5,440
Location
gulf coast, TEXAS
Wow I haven't seen one of those since I was in college. I love it! Damn DIS systems they took away all the cool stuff and replaced them with computers. :(

Thank god! Now it has made it possible to have one wicked advance curve instead of a base timing+linear weight timing+some vacuum thrown in.

Now you can have what ever degree you need, when you need it. Chases away a lot of those hiccups, stumbles, and made starting a lot easier when you didn't have to crank engine against a ton of advance on a hot day. Not to mention it got rid of those wobbly shafts and rotor phasing/cross firing problems when rotor was not properly aligned to cap terminal for a given rpm/advance angle.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom