SUPER Thin Wall 14mm Spark Plug Socket Needed - Anyone with a lathe? Will pay!

[M635_Guy]

Can this one still be purchased?

I'm not sure - I think the BMW part number is what's printed: Hazet 83 300 491 127

But the Hazet PN might be the other one: Hazet 12 1 160

Searching "BMW S38 Spark Plug Socket" more than I just did might work. Looks to be NLA:

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1213-spark-plug-socket-s14-s38-engines/

One result might lead in the right direction: https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Plug-Socket-Drive-Points/dp/B008O0I81Q?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Hannahranga]

That is a ridiculously thin socket tho, would be interesting to see what kind of torque value it snaps at (tho not interesting enough to actually buy one).

 

[richfinn]

I would just order the correct socket via a Porsche dealer for that application to be honest.

It's not worth risking breaking a spark plug or getting any home made bits stuck down a spark plug tube, It could turn into a serious PITA

 

[danski0224]

So, sometimes too much girth is bad?

 

[Shoreline_]

Not necessarily. It is economy of scale. They don’t make enough for it to make them any real money. Also, the socket is so thin that you almost have to make it out of the best tool steel. Even the regular thin 14mm (BMW…) is extremely thin. I have to assume that a lot of people break them.

Spark plugs arent in that tight on a porsche. You could make a socket out of aluminum lol

 

[scooby074]

So, sometimes too much girth is bad?

It is when youre hung like a tuna can

 

[F-22]

I'm sure saving that 0.25mm on the radius of the spark plug hole gave them enough performance gains to warrant the need for special tools.

Really disappointed in overall German cars of the last 20 years and I hope they manage to regain their old reputation at some point.

 

[AJHD]

It is when youre hung like a tuna can

"I never touch the bottom of the can, but dent the hell out of the sides"

A former coworker always made me laugh when he said that.

 

[AJHD]

Really disappointed in overall German cars of the last 20 years and I hope they manage to regain their old reputation at some point.

As a former mechanic, I avoided "euro-trash" whenever possible whenever they came into the shop. Thankfully not a frequent occurrence. They have a well deserved/earned reputation, in my experience.

I found euro brands to be overally expensive, overally engineered, overally complex and generally just a pain in the *** to work on. Although those things can apply to just about every moder vehicle these days.

There's also a separate conversation about and reputation in itself regarding the people who own them.

Was there a time when these things were not the case? Truth be told, I'm not a "car guy" and certainly not when it comes to euro brands. I just turned wrenches.

 

[F-22]

As a former mechanic, I avoided "euro-trash" whenever possible whenever they came into the shop. Thankfully not a frequent occurrence. They have a well deserved/earned reputation, in my experience.

I found euro brands to be overally expensive, overally engineered, overally complex and generally just a pain in the *** to work on. Although those things can apply to just about every moder vehicle these days.

There's also a separate conversation about and reputation in itself regarding the people who own them.

Was there a time when these things were not the case? Truth be told, I'm not a "car guy" and certainly not when it comes to euro brands. I just turned wrenches.

There's a very clear difference and decline compared to what they did before. 80's Mercedes, or old VW like the Beetle...

Today, German engineering means they give the impression of quality, but go just one layer deep and it is made as incredibly cheap as possible. They go to extreme lengths with that, and often they go out of their way to make maintenance harder.

Back then, they were made to be easy to maintain, and they were very high quality even when it was not needed to be.

For sure there is a similar decline in all brands. But still - compare a base model 20 year old Lexus (~2005) and a base model Mercedes. One is quality and the other is just pretending to be quality. Compare a simple VW Polo to a Toyota Yaris. The time it takes to remove the under-engine-panels to reach the oil filter and oil drain plug on the Polo is longer than doing the whole job on the Yaris. I know because I have a 5 year old Yaris and had worked on some Polos. The Yaris even still has a spin on oil filter while the Polo has a messy job with the cartridge (but okay, EU regulations demand it, can't blame it on VW completely... Some Yaris models were modified for it too, but I replaced the oil filter receptable to take the classic spin on cartridge and avoid the hassle).

 

[KFBR392]

I'm sure saving that 0.25mm on the radius of the spark plug hole gave them enough performance gains to warrant the need for special tools.

Really disappointed in overall German cars of the last 20 years and I hope they manage to regain their old reputation at some point.

My shitbox 1994 BMW that had completely fallen apart and was barely running in 2008 despite only having 110k miles scoffs at your idea of their “old reputation”

 

[GX460DIYguy]

I’ll buy all kinds of ridiculous stuff, but that’s way too much for just one socket. Also, I wish I had OPs problems . Most guys that buy these cars aren’t doing the work themselves anyway so I’m sure it’s not making them much, if any, profit.

 

[richfinn]

As a former mechanic, I avoided "euro-trash" whenever possible whenever they came into the shop. Thankfully not a frequent occurrence. They have a well deserved/earned reputation, in my experience.

I found euro brands to be overally expensive, overally engineered, overally complex and generally just a pain in the *** to work on. Although those things can apply to just about every moder vehicle these days.

There's also a separate conversation about and reputation in itself regarding the people who own them.

Was there a time when these things were not the case? Truth be told, I'm not a "car guy" and certainly not when it comes to euro brands. I just turned wrenches.

Yep up to around the late 90s, back in the early 1990s European Emissions regulations and crash testing requirements became much more stringent and started to change cars drastically, up to this point they were still relatively simple, small, lightweight and above all fun to drive.

The Porsche 964 RS only needed around 270bhp and had no power steering

The VW Golf GTi 16v was a genuinely fast hot hatchback and had no need of a Turbocharger

Air Conditioning/Automatic Transmissions were still relatively rare luxury options (mostly in Mercedes-Benz, BMWs and Jaguars).

 

[rust in the eye]

As a former mechanic, I avoided "euro-trash" whenever possible whenever they came into the shop. Thankfully not a frequent occurrence. They have a well deserved/earned reputation, in my experience.

I found euro brands to be overally expensive, overally engineered, overally complex and generally just a pain in the *** to work on. Although those things can apply to just about every moder vehicle these days.

There's also a separate conversation about and reputation in itself regarding the people who own them.

Was there a time when these things were not the case? Truth be told, I'm not a "car guy" and certainly not when it comes to euro brands. I just turned wrenches.

Its all about familiarity. If you are wrenching domestic pick up trucks all day and a German car rolls in you'll certainly be out of your element. Likewise for the Euro car mechanic asked to service a Buick.
All cars have become more complicated, not just the Euros.
No need to cast aspersions at those who choose to drive European cars.
Regards,
A car guy

 

[rust in the eye]

My shitbox 1994 BMW that had completely fallen apart and was barely running in 2008 despite only having 110k miles scoffs at your idea of their “old reputation”

Lemme' guess, 3 series?

 

[pbon]

I like BMWs and am a DIYer. Have owned and worked on 73 Bavaria, 75 2002, 79 635, 99 528i, 99 M3, 2008 535xi, 2008 M3, 2012 X3, and 2018 M5. They have gotten more complex over time, there are more things that can fail as a result, and they have gotten more challenging to work on. But I still like them and still buy them. Can’t think of anything ‘Merican that I would rather have and am not sure that they are any better made or simpler theses days than a BMW.

 

[KFBR392]

Lemme' guess, 3 series?

Oh yes. And because I was a glutton for punishment, convertible. I loved that car. I owned it almost 20 years ago now, and I still have stress dreams about the temperature gauge creeping up while I’m driving it. It was never, ever reliable and overheated constantly.

 

[dchawk81]

Oh yes. And because I was a glutton for punishment, convertible. I loved that car. I owned it almost 20 years ago now, and I still have stress dreams about the temperature gauge creeping up while I’m driving it. It was never, ever reliable and overheated constantly.

My convertible Chevy Cavalier was like that.

 

[KFBR392]

My convertible Chevy Cavalier was like that.

To be fair to the Chevy, I still see late 90s Cavaliers/Sunbirds running and driving on the roads and can’t help but be impressed. The number of 90s BMWs has diminished drastically over the years in my area (I always look out for cars I like on the roads, so I feel like I have a good idea of what’s common and not so common). The ones still out there are completely trashed or poorly modified and driven by goofy white dudes in their 20s-30s.

 

[dchawk81]

To be fair to the Chevy, I still see late 90s Cavaliers/Sunbirds running and driving on the roads and can’t help but be impressed. The number of 90s BMWs has diminished drastically over the years in my area (I always look out for cars I like on the roads, so I feel like I have a good idea of what’s common and not so common). The ones still out there are completely trashed or poorly modified and driven by goofy white dudes in their 20s-30s.

Mine was a 1984. My dad still has it and it still runs. But he had to buy a donor sedan to replace the engine when I blew a head gasket.

He keeps it in storage on a trickle charger.

 

[spyerx]

Euro trash? I don't know. Every country seems to make ****, and some good.

Who knows why porsche made the bore for the plugs so narrow on this car. Maybe heat management in the heads? Material space? The core of this 9A2 engine is based on a 3.0L turbo motor they punched out to 4L normally aspirated.

They are generally pretty easy cars to work on, for me very logical, even if often over complicated ( mezger engine?). They are reliable and stupid fun to drive in anger especially on the race track. Porsche is one of the brands that has unfortunately gotten massively more complicated (much of it driven by safety and emissions regulation) but still very reliable for their level of performance.

To those wondering do I service my cars? Well.. yes mostly, oil changes I sometimes pay for (mess and hassle, I don't have a lift in my home garage), plugs, brakes, brake fluids, general service, suspension work, bearings, belts, carb work when my 71 had carbs (its EFI now... motec), axles, electrical sure, computer stuff yes. This Cayman is my daily driver.... I know my limitations (both time and skill) but it's fun to tinker on them, especially the older ones.

I like German cars for the driving experience (they just drive amazing), especially the older ones, and especially Porsche, and the old ones go quite well, here's another one of mine. It's not so stock, looks kinda stock... the 2.8L build on the concept of the 73RSR engine makes 300hp and revs over 8 grand... makes the narrow 185 section pirellis SCREAM.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

As a former mechanic, I avoided "euro-trash" whenever possible whenever they came into the shop. Thankfully not a frequent occurrence. They have a well deserved/earned reputation, in my experience.

I found euro brands to be overally expensive, overally engineered, overally complex and generally just a pain in the *** to work on. Although those things can apply to just about every moder vehicle these days.

Lol. Euro trash.... Some get it, some don't. I guess you were in love with the quality cars that came out of Detroit in the 70's through the early 2000's. Euro's gave us modern paint, (Porsche was using urethane enamel base clear in the early 70's!) and a lot of innovation later used by all.

 

[spyerx]

I think it's just the idea that you bought a 70k+ car and don't want to spend $140 on a tool to maintain it.

Why? Principal.

It's not the price. It's the value equation. Found a better solution for 1/2 the price. Same reason I'll pay my independent shop $200/hr and not the dealer for $350 for service. Better product for the price.

If it was truly a very bespoke special thing I'd have paid it. But, it's a friggen thin wall socket. We're not talking some exotic apparatus to hold and time a set of cams on a porsche engine.

 

[dchawk81]

Why? Principal.

It's not the price. It's the value equation. Found a better solution for 1/2 the price. Same reason I'll pay my independent shop $200/hr and not the dealer for $350 for service. Better product for the price.

If it was truly a very bespoke special thing I'd have paid it. But, it's a friggen thin wall socket. We're not talking some exotic apparatus to hold and time a set of cams on a porsche engine.

Cool you found a cheaper solution. I'll never argue against that if it works.

Then again you're saving like 90 bucks at best and you have a Porsche. It's a little silly. Especially when you make the money it takes to have that car.

 

[aka Larry]

Euro's gave us modern paint, (Porsche was using urethane enamel base clear in the early 70's!) and a lot of innovation later used by all.

And yet they STILL use those damn wheel bolts. The rest of the world figured out those were a terrible idea long ago, but the Germans just won't let it go. Every BMW I see on the track has switched to studs though.

 

[pbon]

Cool you found a cheaper solution. I'll never argue against that if it works.

Then again you're saving like 90 bucks at best and you have a Porsche. It's a little silly. Especially when you make the money it takes to have that car.

Just because you have the money to own a nice car does not mean you want to pay more than is necessary for a part or a tool. Not silly at all to me. We paid $200k for our two primary drivers (Porsche and BMW) and I maintain them myself (both are now out of warranty) and I shop carefully for parts and tools.

 

[dchawk81]

Just because you have the money to own a nice car does not mean you want to pay more than is necessary for a part or a tool. Not silly at all to me. We paid $200k for our two primary drivers (Porsche and BMW) and I maintain them myself (both are now out of warranty) and I shop carefully for parts and tools.

I'm in the commercial realm. This is child's play.

 

[pbon]

A much bigger spender.

 

[richfinn]

And yet they STILL use those damn wheel bolts. The rest of the world figured out those were a terrible idea long ago, but the Germans just won't let it go. Every BMW I see on the track has switched to studs though.

The only cars we really see in the UK with studs and nuts are of Japanese origin

I'm on the fence still after a 40 year career as a mechanic

Studs are a lot easier when fitting wheels, but they make it a PITA to clean off the rust when fitting new brake discs

 

[MarineScott]

Mac Tools

 

[F-22]

My shitbox 1994 BMW that had completely fallen apart and was barely running in 2008 despite only having 110k miles scoffs at your idea of their “old reputation”

Well true... As mentioned, I had cars like the 80's Mercedes or old VW Bugs and type 2 vans in mind. They are on very different spectrums of luxury but both were super reliable and super easy to work on. BMW... Well, they had some really reliable cars too. But without trying to offend anyone with this statement - BMW is probably the cheapest car from Germany that's sporty and rwd. You do get fast VWs but that's not the same...

Who knows why porsche made the bore for the plugs so narrow on this car. Maybe heat management in the heads? Material space? The core of this 9A2 engine is based on a 3.0L turbo motor they punched out to 4L normally aspirated.

I find it extremely unlikely the minute amount of space they saved around the spark plug hole made had any meaningful impact on the engine. It just prevents people from replacing spark plugs without going through some Porsche mechanic. Not just Porsche, plenty of manufacturers use factory tools to prevent access to certain parts - just usually not basic maintenance parts.

The only cars we really see in the UK with studs and nuts are of Japanese origin

I'm on the fence still after a 40 year career as a mechanic

Studs are a lot easier when fitting wheels, but they make it a PITA to clean off the rust when fitting new brake discs

Ford of Europe also uses studs. Should be plenty of those in the UK.

When you think about it, it's only the European cars that have bolts. And only personal vehicles - commercial trucks will of course use studs.

 

[Mandres]

The correct garage journal answer is: "Weren't you thinking about getting a lathe anyway?".

 

[richfinn]

Well true... As mentioned, I had cars like the 80's Mercedes or old VW Bugs and type 2 vans in mind. They are on very different spectrums of luxury but both were super reliable and super easy to work on. BMW... Well, they had some really reliable cars too. But without trying to offend anyone with this statement - BMW is probably the cheapest car from Germany that's sporty and rwd. You do get fast VWs but that's not the same...



I find it extremely unlikely the minute amount of space they saved around the spark plug hole made had any meaningful impact on the engine. It just prevents people from replacing spark plugs without going through some Porsche mechanic. Not just Porsche, plenty of manufacturers use factory tools to prevent access to certain parts - just usually not basic maintenance parts.



Ford of Europe also uses studs. Should be plenty of those in the UK.

When you think about it, it's only the European cars that have bolts. And only personal vehicles - commercial trucks will of course use studs.

That's true, Japanese, Korean and American brands tend to have studs and nuts

 

[rust in the eye]

Oh yes. And because I was a glutton for punishment, convertible. I loved that car. I owned it almost 20 years ago now, and I still have stress dreams about the temperature gauge creeping up while I’m driving it. It was never, ever reliable and overheated constantly.

I am well familiar with these cars. Aside the usual BMW foibles of the era the E36 3 series was cheaply put together. I'll suggest whatever was causing your overheating was never properly addressed. When the cooling systems are in good shape maintaining coolant temps. isn't a problem. As you may have discovered that engine does NOT tolerate overheating well.
Aside the general junkiness of the E36 it's engines and drivetrain are solid.
Again, familiarity goes a long way towards knowing how to diagnose.

 

[KFBR392]

I am well familiar with these cars. Aside the usual BMW foibles of the era the E36 3 series was cheaply put together. I'll suggest whatever was causing your overheating was never properly addressed. When the cooling systems are in good shape maintaining coolant temps. isn't a problem. As you may have discovered that engine does NOT tolerate overheating well.
Aside the general junkiness of the E36 it's engines and drivetrain are solid.
Again, familiarity goes a long way towards knowing how to diagnose.

16 year old me was VERY focused on cosmetics. The coolant problem was never addressed. Lol

 

[pbon]

I have a 1999 E36 M3 that I bought in 2005. Gets more attention when I drive it than my 2018 M5. But it’s not as comfortable.

 

[F-22]

I have a 1999 E36 M3 that I bought in 2005. Gets more attention when I drive it than my 2018 M5. But it’s not as comfortable.

When I look at 90's and older BMW and new ones, it makes me wonder what went so wrong in the 2000's

 

[JeepYJ]

"Hard to make " you can't be serious
140$ is price gouging , plain and simple

$140 for a German specialty socket doesn’t seem unreasonable. Honda sells a S-O spark plug socket for the super rare commuter Hondas for a measly $76. Pay the $140 and move on. But please use a $15 Pittsburg Pro ratchet when you use it!

 

[pbon]

The OP has already informed us that a Porsche forum member can make a socket that fits for half the dealer special tool cost. Why should he pay the $140 and move on? GJ members are notoriously frugal and resourceful in my experience, but this thread has a few who just give up and say buy from the most expensive place.

 

[JeepYJ]

The OP has already informed us that a Porsche forum member can make a socket that fits for half the dealer special tool cost. Why should he pay the $140 and move on? GJ members are notoriously frugal and resourceful in my experience, but this thread has a few who just give up and say buy from the most expensive place.

He’s spent countless hours trying to find a solution to a problem that already has an answer. If you like that kind of project that’s cool. but he’s not going to find a $20 socket unless he’s really lucky.