Supplemental Home & Garage Heating

[billt460]

Around here most homes are heated by heat pumps. It doesn't get freezing, but it can and often does drop down into the high 30's this time of year at night. (December through February). I've found heat pumps just don't work that well, and are expensive to run.

The house came with a small propane RV type ventless catalytic heater that was set in the fireplace. It worked OK, but didn't provide much heat, and was difficult and time consuming to light. So this past week we purchased a "Mr.Heater" brand 30,000 BTU ventless propane space heater. This thing is fantastic!

We placed it right in front of the fireplace, and it was easy to hook up to the same gas line the small heater used. I didn't even have to change the regulator. (It is piped to the propane supply outside). This heater is very easy to light, and has a built in thermostatic control that works really well.

It provides a clean, even heat that circulates through much of the house. Especially if I keep the ceiling fans running in both rooms. The thermostat turns it on and off as needed to maintain an even temperature. We have no kids, and our dog loves laying in front of it.

We don't leave it on unattended, or while we sleep, because it's really not needed until the early morning hours. Both my wife and I are early risers. So whoever gets up first makes the coffee and lights it. (We're both retired).

I like this thing so much I'm going to get another one for my large, (1,000 sq. ft.), 3 car garage. I have insulated doors on it, so it will be nice and warm when I want to reload out there in the colder weather.

I just thought I would mention it if any of you guys are in a similar situation, and require a supplemental heater to provide some extra warmth in either your home or garage. This thing is worth every penny! They are available in different BTU outputs. And in either propane or natural gas models.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DPZ59U2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[PCustoms]

I like this thing so much I'm going to get another one for my large, (1,000 sq. ft.), 3 car garage. I have insulated doors on it, so it will be nice and warm when I want to reload out there in the colder weather.

Since they are unvented, they put a lot of moisture in the air. In a building that's isn't heated all the time this can cause issues.

I have one in my basement, it ***** and now I only use it long enough to get the temp up for the pellet stove to keep up. Damp walls and rusty tools ****.

 

[billt460]

They do add a bit of moisture. But out here in the desert, that's a welcome by product. Our relative humidity is so low as it is, (especially in the Winter months), even with the added moisture, the indoor relative humidity seldom gets above 30% when running it.

 

[jblnut]

I have a similar heater in a 16x24 garage that I keep heated to park my skid loader in. It throws a ton of moisture in the air but heats fantastically. I put a dehumidifier in a few years ago and the moisture issues went away. It does cost a few $$$ to run the dehumidifier but the space is still heated for less than with electric alone.

In your dry environment I bet the added moisture isn't as big of an issue though ....

 

[PCustoms]

They do add a bit of moisture. But out here in the desert, that's a welcome by product. Our relative humidity is so low as it is, (especially in the Winter months), even with the added moisture, the indoor relative humidity seldom gets above 30% when running it.

I suspect the garage might be different, but maybe it will work in the desert.

My basement is less then 40% RH right now on a cold day, if I run the ventless, I will get condensation on the walls. On really cold days it will turn to ice. Ventless isn't good for me, thought I'd toss out the warning. Cheap heat is attractive but could lose problems for some people.

 

[billt460]

Another thing is that it doesn't get that cold here. Almost NEVER below freezing. Usually the upper to mid 40's is pretty much the norm. If it does get into the upper 30's, that's really cold in these parts.

When I lived in the Midwest, (Chicago area), well below freezing, and even sub zero temperatures were not that unusual.... Sometimes for days on end. There I could see where unvented heaters would cause issues. Simply because they would be running all but continuously, consuming large amounts of propane in the process. More propane consumed = more moisture added to the air.

 

[jblnut]

Another thing is that it doesn't get that cold here. Almost NEVER below freezing. Usually the upper to mid 40's is pretty much the norm. If it does get into the upper 30's, that's really cold in these parts.

When I lived in the Midwest, (Chicago area), well below freezing, and even sub zero temperatures were not that unusual.... Sometimes for days on end. There I could see where unvented heaters would cause issues. Simply because they would be running all but continuously, consuming large amounts of propane in the process. More propane consumed = more moisture added to the air.

Gosh that'd be neat .... No sub zero temps lol. It doesn't get above zero for weeks on end here but for some dumb reason I like it. We went through a shade over 2,000gal of LP last winter so we installed an outdoor wood boiler to offset the cost of buying fuel. Now I need to cut and haul home 20ish cord of wood a year instead lol

 

[jlv03]

How old is your heat pump if it isn't working well for you?

In your climate a modern heat pump should have no issue keeping up.

 

[PoorUB]

Around here most homes are heated by heat pumps. It doesn't get freezing, but it can and often does drop down into the high 30's this time of year at night. (December through February). I've found heat pumps just don't work that well, and are expensive to run.

The house came with a small propane RV type ventless catalytic heater that was set in the fireplace. It worked OK, but didn't provide much heat, and was difficult and time consuming to light. So this past week we purchased a "Mr.Heater" brand 30,000 BTU ventless propane space heater. This thing is fantastic!

I refuse to put a ventless heater in my home or shop! There are quite a few vented heaters available. Do you have a Co detector?

In our city they will not allow ventless heating equipment to be installed.

https://www.abe.iastate.edu/extensi...nvented-gas-space-heating-appliances-aen-204/

 

[WisJim]

We had two mini split heat pumps in our old farmhouse in Wisconsin and they work well, cheaper than propane and they also did the air conditioning. I can't imagine propane being better in your mild climate.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I understand the pros and cons of ventless heaters.

They actually work well for the OP's purpose of part time supplemental or emergency heat. The operational advantage of these are they do not require any ac power to operate. Years ago after an ice storm, we were able to stay in our house during 20 degree weather for 3 days until power was restored only because of a ventless heater.

On the opposite side, my inlaws were forced to evacuate their home in Texas a couple of years back during the cold weather/subsequent power outage experienced state wide because they did not have a propane supply to run their ventless heater at the time they lost power and couldn't get any bought until after the power was back on.

BTW....I do have digital CO detectors in my home and they've never registered anything for any reason, including if we run our gas log set or our other ventless heater.

All that being said, I run into people occasionally who are attempting to heat their home solely with space heaters, and sometimes with a ventless gas heater, and that never goes well They are not intended for that and sooting of the walls and ceiling, excessive moisture on the windows and sills, and eventually mold because of that is almost guaranteed. IMHO Supplemental/Emergency heat = Good. Anything beyond that = Bad. YMMV.

 

[billt460]

I refuse to put a ventless heater in my home or shop! There are quite a few vented heaters available. Do you have a Co detector? In our city they will not allow ventless heating equipment to be installed.

https://www.abe.iastate.edu/extensi...nvented-gas-space-heating-appliances-aen-204/

Yes, I have a CO detector. The heater WILL NOT set it off, regardless of how much it runs. These heaters are perfectly safe, and have been proven so for years. CO emissions ARE NOT a problem when using them.

The states and municipalities that don't allow them today, do so because they are against the use of ANY type of fossil fuel for heating and cooking purposes. Not because of any safety factor. (Is there anything that California hasn't tried to ban)?

Having a gas stove, (propane or NG), is no different than these heaters. How many MILLIONS of them are in use today all over the world..... And for the last 3/4 of a century. How much CO do you think they generate baking a Thanksgiving turkey for 8 hours? All but nothing.

Not to mention all the top burners running preparing all the sides? Not enough to even be concerned about. Then why should a single burner heater generate so much concern, that runs maybe 15 minutes of every hour?

The ONLY issue with these types of heaters when used in certain climates, is the amount of water they put into the air. For me it's not a problem because 1). It doesn't get that cold where I live. And 2). The relative humidity out here in the desert Southwest is extremely low. The water input actually helps.

For every gallon of propane that is burned, it will produce 26.2 ounces of water, as a direct by product of its combustion. That means when a 4.6 gallon, 20 pound propane tank is completely consumed, it will generate right around 120 ounces of water. (Just under 1 gallon).

In my heating situation it is not a problem. The humidity gauges I have barely show a 5% increase in relative humidity when running it on the coldest of mornings. In a much colder, wetter climate it could be a concern.

If it is, it can be remedied with a small dehumidifier. Regardless, CO emissions ARE NOT a concern with these ventless heaters... And never have been. Except for those who continue to spread total misinformation.

 

[billt460]

How old is your heat pump if it isn't working well for you? In your climate a modern heat pump should have no issue keeping up.

The heat pump works. Albeit not very well. It runs a lot for the amount of heat it produces. Heat pumps are little more than an air conditioner that runs backwards. Out here they're not very efficient. Which is why many go to an alternate source of heating, like a ventless heater.

And they take a long time to bring the temperature up to a comfortable level. Especially in some of the larger homes. My propane heater literally does it in minutes. And it's far more economical to run. Plus it's both much quieter, and doesn't blow dust around like forced air heating and cooling does.

Most all of these things are used, not by choice, but rather because of the lack of supply of gas in their area. In my town NG is only supplied in certain areas of the city. And most ALL of them have NG heating.... Not heat pumps.

 

[billt460]

I understand the pros and cons of ventless heaters.

They actually work well for the OP's purpose of part time supplemental or emergency heat. The operational advantage of these are they do not require any ac power to operate. Years ago after an ice storm, we were able to stay in our house during 20 degree weather for 3 days until power was restored only because of a ventless heater.

On the opposite side, my inlaws were forced to evacuate their home in Texas a couple of years back during the cold weather/subsequent power outage experienced state wide because they did not have a propane supply to run their ventless heater at the time they lost power and couldn't get any bought until after the power was back on.

BTW....I do have digital CO detectors in my home and they've never registered anything for any reason, including if we run our gas log set or our other ventless heater.

All that being said, I run into people occasionally who are attempting to heat their home solely with space heaters, and sometimes with a ventless gas heater, and that never goes well They are not intended for that and sooting of the walls and ceiling, excessive moisture on the windows and sills, and eventually mold because of that is almost guaranteed. IMHO Supplemental/Emergency heat = Good. Anything beyond that = Bad. YMMV.

You bring up a good point about power failures. If it were to happen in my case, it would not be an emergency issue, because it never gets below freezing here.

But in a much colder climate it could very well be a disaster, if a supplemental heating supply, (such as a ventless propane heater), was not available. Heating is no different than most anything else. The type, size, and fuel used in them has to be determined by the consumer themselves. All depending on their needs, size of the area that requires heating, and the amount of heat that is required.

And regardless of that requirement, these ventless propane heaters are perfectly safe to employ. Provided the need suits them for the given application.

 

[PoorUB]

The states and municipalities that don't allow them today, do so because they are against the use of ANY type of fossil fuel for heating and cooking purposes. Not because of any safety factor. (Is there anything that California hasn't tried to ban)?

Nope, not here, this city embraces natural gas.

If it is, it can be remedied with a small dehumidifier. Regardless, CO emissions ARE NOT a concern with these ventless heaters... And never have been. Except for those who continue to spread total misinformation.

They are ok when they are working correctly and installed properly, but in a few years they start to wander off the proper settings and are not ok any longer.

I wonder if in our city they have been banned for decades, my guess is the models years ago were not as safe as today.

I don't know what it is, but I can notice it whae I walk into a building with ventless heaters. I have a couple friends that have them and walking into there homes I noticed it before I was aware the had the heaters. i got my **** kicked from Co many years ago, to the point of passing out, and my body doesn't like it at all. I am very sensitive to it.

The heat pump works. Albeit not very well. It runs a lot for the amount of heat it produces. Heat pumps are little more than an air conditioner that runs backwards. Out here they're not very efficient. Which is why many go to an alternate source of heating, like a ventless heater.

And they take a long time to bring the temperature up to a comfortable level. Especially in some of the larger homes. My propane heater literally does it in minutes. And it's far more economical to run. Plus it's both much quieter, and doesn't blow dust around like forced air heating and cooling does.

Most all of these things are used, not by choice, but rather because of the lack of supply of gas in their area. In my town NG is only supplied in certain areas of the city. And most ALL of them have NG heating.... Not heat pumps.

Your region of the country is perfect for heat pumps and a heat pump in good condition and running properly will be much cheaper to operate that straight electricity or LPG.

On the other hand the the areas with NG and no heat pumps is again a financial issue. NG has typically been so inexpensive that it will cost less to heat a home with NG than even a high efficiency heat pump. Some of the heat pumps bult in the last few years are starting to cross that line.

I did HVAC service and in my city we have NG and almost no heat pumps. Some people still put them in becuase they fall for the 300% efficiancy, (sure at 40F!) and don't realise that NG will heat for less money.