surface wiring/conduit

[SportFury59]

Time is coming up soon to wire inside of my new 30x48 detached garage. One of my son's is going to do it. He's trying to talk me into running the wiring to receptacles and outlets, inside metal conduit, on the inner surface of the interior walls instead of inside the wall space. He did this for a couple friends and says it works out well and looks good.

I'm not convinced. Anybody have any pros or cons? Cost of conduit, etc. is not a factor. Appreciate any comments. John

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If this is a stick structure with sheetrock or some kind of wall panel board inside, I would think that conduit is a waste of time and money. Put in lots of receptacles, up high so they will be above workbenches, on lots of different circuits.

If you have to (and I did) conduit is great, but there is no real reason to use it in your case. Romex will do just fine.

Charles

 

[jkeyser14]

Time is coming up soon to wire inside of my new 30x48 detached garage. One of my son's is going to do it. He's trying to talk me into running the wiring to receptacles and outlets, inside metal conduit, on the inner surface of the interior walls instead of inside the wall space. He did this for a couple friends and says it works out well and looks good.

I'm not convinced. Anybody have any pros or cons? Cost of conduit, etc. is not a factor. Appreciate any comments. John

Running THHN wire in conduit is cheap and easy. It's more time consuming and requires buying a conduit bender however. The largest benefit would be that further down the road you can very easily add more circuits or outlets anywhere in the garage that you need them, or upgrade circuits to a larger amperage.

Done right it doesn't look bad.

 

[Red05GT]

I have an old Armco building that we insulated and finished off inside with metal siding.
We then ran the conduit on the surface of the metal and attached with straps/clips.
In some applications it looks good. In a wood frame building I think I would go for the
concealed romex option though. Plus running the romex is one step and one material
component, versus conduit install, THHN pulling through conduit, two steps. The metal
work boxes and plaster rings will cost more than plastic nail on boxes. Lay out your
outlet and then double them. You'll still occasionally have to pull out an extension cord!!

Plus you can run romex and put in outlets and switches now where as if you plan on
conduit you have to have the walls insulated and finished before electrical can proceed.

 

[larry_g]

You can also do both. Run the initial wiring with romex in the walls to lighting, and convenience plugs where you think they may go. As the shop evolves then do the additional work with conduit. Keep in mind a way to easily get out of the panel and to a place that you can get into the conduit. I have my panel in an interior wall with wall board screwed to the studs that the panel mounts in. I can easily drop the board to get wiring into the panel and up to the chase in the header for the upper floor.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Mickey O]

Running the wire in conduit is the way to go, it's cheap, protects the wires and is easy to add onto and move in the future, it's the only way I'd do it, of course it's the only way we are allowed to do it by code.

 

[Falcon67]

I ran my stuff all "in wall" when I built the shop. If I had a do-over, I would have used conduit. The stuff wasn't there a week before I was hacking into the walls to add something or move something.

 

[ultimakf7]

If you're not framing the walls/ adding sheet rock, I'd recommending installing cable in EMT conduit.

If the walls are framed... i'd just run the cable in the wall

 

[bobadame]

I've got all my single phase circuits in the wall. All the 3 phase stuff in conduit.

 

[Aceman]

You could always run conduit in the wall.......but it's definitely not easy.

I'd just plan your garage out well and run Romex. Add in extra receps just in case, they're cheap.

 

[kbs2244]

I like to use EMT for the reasons given.
I prefer to run it at the top of the wall by the celing and use surface mounted drops to the boxs.
This keeps it away from any damage, and keeps the walls smooth for shelves, etc.

 

[rodnok1]

If the walls are open run romex. It really ***** to notch shelf boards. cabinets have to stand away from the way and the like around conduit. I also hate painting it or around it. Done right conduit does look good, however you get the same benefits, lower cost and easier installation with romex.

 

[BL50]

Running the wire in conduit is the way to go, it's cheap, protects the wires and is easy to add onto and move in the future, it's the only way I'd do it, of course it's the only way we are allowed to do it by code.

I agree ... this is how I did it in my new 24' x 34' garage. Simple to do, looks great and easy to add on to if I ever need to.

 

[sams]

I found it extremely time consuming putting everything in PVC conduit in my garage, I think if I went for a 25mm (1") size instead of 20mm (3/4") it would of saved a little time though.

 

[SportFury59]

Thanks for comments and suggestions, everyone. I think maybe I'm leaning now toward inside the wall wiring. Just have plenty of receptacles and switches. I can see how that conduit can get in the way and mess up my wall decorating, painting, etc.

 

[colt340]

I ran all mine on the outside of the wall. I did it so if I ever have to run a new
outlet it would be easy to do. Here's a few pics.

 

[gumbudah]

At one point, I thought surface mount metal conduit was the way to go for sure. but the more I think about it, the more I use my garage the more I think this method is a poor way to go. Reasons being:1. 14/2 romex with 15A Blue electrical box per outlet, less than a dollar for the whole setup. Romex is cheap. Not to mention most outlets don't need more than 15A. 2. It's relatively expensive compared to romex and plastic boxes. The electrical costs will double. 3. It's more difficult to put up. In order for it to look decent you need a bender, and a lot of time to put it together. 4. Poor asthetics. I just don't like the look of it. It makes me think "some duded with no pre-planning abilities took the cromagnon approach and figured, I'll just add it later". Not to mention, I want people who visit my garage to focus on what I want them to see (my toys!!!) rather than noticing the electrical is surface mount. 5. It's an obstacle. Every shelf, cabinet, bracket, anything you put on the wall needs to steer clear of it or start notching away!!!
All that being said, I can't argue with the fact that it's easier to modify after it's up. But that's about the ONLY advantage that I see for surface mount.

 

[Norcal]

Running the wire in conduit is the way to go, it's cheap, protects the wires and is easy to add onto and move in the future, it's the only way I'd do it, of course it's the only way we are allowed to do it by code.

Chicago & it's suburbs codes.....


Surface conduit in a new structure where it's possible to conceal it smacks of a lack of planning IMO.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

14/2 romex with 15A Blue electrical box per outlet, less than a dollar for the whole setup. Romex is cheap. Not to mention most outlets don't need more than 15A.

Run 12/2 and 20 amp breakers. Doesn't make sense to run 14/2. If you want to plug in a high load item like a portable air compressor (the one you are repairing for your cousin, and need to test out) or a big bench grinder, the wiring will carry the load.......... poorly and with lots of resistance to that high (possibly 80 to 100 amp) starting load.

In a house where the heavy load in the living room is the floor lamp, 14/2 is OK, but in a shop where the light load is the shop fridge, I would never consider it.

Charles

 

[sdowney717]

yes 12 gauge is best.
And in the wall romex.

 

[Bigpigdave]

I guess I thought of my shop as a more industrial type building and never even thought about running the wiring in the walls. Conduit allows for infinite layout changes especially when I change machines. Some of the posters talked about lack of pre-planning but you never know how your layout or equipment will change down the road. Thats why factories are surface wired.
Good luck whatever you choose, Dave

 

[That1Guy]

I've done it both ways and for me, in my shop, conduit is gonna win every time. It's allowing me to have no penetrations in the interior walls, making it much closer to airtight. With Romex, all of those holes for outlets and switches are allowing air leaks and heat loss. It requires more time, money and labor to seal up these openings. Just sayin.
At the end of the project, any money saved by going with Romex is lost the first time you need to upgrade or add circuits. Yeah - you saved 50 to $100 dollars by going with Romex but when you have to cut walls open to add circuits and then refinish the walls, primer and paint etc... that c-note means nothing. You'd gladly pay twice that much to not have to do all that work to add that dang circuit - lol. Don't ask me how I know.

Plus, properly done conduit is a thing of beauty in a shop (and then there's mine lol). If you plan everything around the conduit it is little to no problem. Someone said when they see surface mount conduit it makes them think its a lack of planning. One could argue that using Romex makes one think that the builder was just lazy and wanted to go the easy route.

Bottom line is that it's YOUR shop. Do it the way YOU want.
And then... HOW you run the conduit is the next challenge - lol,
At least for me right now.
Best of luck on your setup. Be sure to post some before and after pics once it's done.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned flexible metal conduit in the walls. It's almost as easy to install as NM, but is a raceway that you can change over time to suit your needs just by changing the wire.

 

[Knight511]

I'm surprised nobody mentions this is an 11 year old thread. ;-)

 

[alfredeneuman]

I'm surprised nobody mentions this is an 11 year old thread. ;-)

....but the info is valuable nonetheless

 

[Metal-Marc]

I've done it both ways and for me, in my shop, conduit is gonna win every time. It's allowing me to have no penetrations in the interior walls, making it much closer to airtight. With Romex, all of those holes for outlets and switches are allowing air leaks and heat loss. It requires more time, money and labor to seal up these openings. Just sayin.

At the end of the project, any money saved by going with Romex is lost the first time you need to upgrade or add circuits. Yeah - you saved 50 to $100 dollars by going with Romex but when you have to cut walls open to add circuits and then refinish the walls, primer and paint etc... that c-note means nothing. You'd gladly pay twice that much to not have to do all that work to add that dang circuit - lol. Don't ask me how I know.



Plus, properly done conduit is a thing of beauty in a shop (and then there's mine lol). If you plan everything around the conduit it is little to no problem. Someone said when they see surface mount conduit it makes them think its a lack of planning. One could argue that using Romex makes one think that the builder was just lazy and wanted to go the easy route.



Bottom line is that it's YOUR shop. Do it the way YOU want.

And then... HOW you run the conduit is the next challenge - lol,

At least for me right now.

Best of luck on your setup. Be sure to post some before and after pics once it's done. [emoji106]

We were looking for you. It took you 10 years to answer OP, but at least you finally did it. Congrats!

 

[dscheidt]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned flexible metal conduit in the walls. It's almost as easy to install as NM, but is a raceway that you can change over time to suit your needs just by changing the wire.

FMC is for places where you need the flex (to a motor, say), and for fishing. New construction, use EMT. It's much cheaper, and much easier to pull through.

 

[alfredeneuman]

FMC is for places where you need the flex (to a motor, say), and for fishing. New construction, use EMT. It's much cheaper, and much easier to pull through.

FMC has been used for 80 years for new construction.
EMT through studded walls would require LOTS of couplings and enough extra labor that the savings wouldn't be a significant factor.

 

[Norcal]

FMC is for places where you need the flex (to a motor, say), and for fishing. New construction, use EMT. It's much cheaper, and much easier to pull through.

FMC has been used for 80 years for new construction.
EMT through studded walls would require LOTS of couplings and enough extra labor that the savings wouldn't be a significant factor.

The one thing I agree with dscheidt about is EMT is easier to pull wire through, although ENT "smurftube" is the worst. FMC is a viable option, better then NM, just don't make tight bends with it, there will be regrets if it happens.

 

[dscheidt]

FMC has been used for 80 years for new construction.
EMT through studded walls would require LOTS of couplings and enough extra labor that the savings wouldn't be a significant factor.

EMT is installed in studded walls with no extra couplings in Chicago. There's nothing magical about doing it, and it doesn't require much extra labor, compared to surface mounted EMT. (more than NM, of course.) Most of the time, runs are done vertically, down from the attic or up from a basement, or the joist bays in multi-floor work, but horizontal is pretty common. 1/2 emt is really pretty flexible, and can be noddled into place. 1 1/4 holes in the studs, first one offset to the edge to make it easier to start (remember, emt doesn't have to be centered, unlike NM). Use a story pole, you want them all at the same height. Some times, you get lucky, and can start at a door frame, and it's even easier, because the bending radius is so big. 3/4 is harder to do this with, but it's still done, with bigger holes. Ripping apart a wall and finding it full of couplings is a clear sign that a hack did the work. Corners are the only place you'll find couplers.

 

[alfredeneuman]

E 1 1/4 holes in the studs, first one offset to the edge to make it easier to start (remember, emt doesn't have to be centered, unlike NM).

NM doesn't have to centered.
As a matter of fact the rules are exactly the same. There's an exception for protection plates with EMT, RMC, or IMC.

NEC300.4
A) Cables and Raceways Through Wood Members.(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations,where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (11∕4 in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member