Surveyors?

[NSXSOON]

After seeing all of those reports out of Iraq about how the Air Force can stick a bomb in a gnats azz using GPS guided bombs that they could survey land using GPS for next to nothing.

Although the GPS satellite system we the public use is the same as the military's the resolution that is provided via there access is far better and not available to the public. The same thing goes for the resolution of satellite imagery. You might be surprised at how small an object can be seen from space!

 

[kbs2244]

A civilian GPS with WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) will get you within six inches of LAT, LONG, and Altitude.
You do have to be within range of a WAAS antenna. (They are ground based towers.)
But, except for a “hole” over the Great Plaines states, most of the country that was covered by the old LORAN RDF system is now covered by WAAS since they used a lot of the same towers.

 

[Northstar9126]

Now all I have to figure out is how to find the coordinates for my property.

 

[klmken]

Interesting replies, we are kind of in the same boat here. I am inheriting (well my wife is) a house and while taking measurements to figure where I am building my garage, we found our bedroom to be 14ft. from the fence. But then the next day while we were at the city going through the lot plans it claims the fence is 26ft. from the bedroom.

Problem is that my wife's father put in the fence and hedge in 1951 and the neighbors have since built to within the 8ft. setback from that fence.

We can't find the stakes to prove it, a friend is bringing over his metal detector and hopefully we will find them with that. Then its a big decision for my wife if the fence is really off by that much as to what to do about it. I already called the city and they won't do the survey without a surveyor saying there is a problem but once my surveyor says something is wrong the city will do a official survey for free.

The last post about lat/lon's gave me a great idea though, I have a GPS and I wonder how close it can get me for starters.

You may have a problem from a legal aspect. There is a legal precedent (lawyers chime in here) that is related to squatting. If a person uses a piece of your property for a given amount of time and it is open and conspicuous the landowner has given them a prescriptive easment or something of that sort....Check your line, contact an attorney to know your legal position then go talk to the neighbor (don't mention the lawyer) and be real nice and see if they want to come to an equitable agreement for both parties.
Ken

 

[john56h]

The references made in this thread about "lattitude & longitude" to the "minutes & seconds" is a bit flawed. Lattitude and longitude would establish a particular coordinate for a point.

Most surveyor's maps indicate "bearings & distances". Bearings are the angular measurement of a property line...usually measured in degrees, minutes and seconds. There are 360 degrees in a circle, 60 minutes in a degree and 60 seconds in a minute. Degree is usually shown with the normal small circular symbol, while minutes are idicated by the ' like feet and seconds are " like inches.

Bearings are based off of compass readings and adjusted for many things, so they may not match a bearing read directly from a field compass. Bearings will give direction such as SW or NE, etc...

Most deed descriptions will call out a point of beginning and then it will go on to describe the bearings and distances around the perimeter of the property. Some deed descriptions will also call out any stakes or monuments at the corners and adjoining property owners at the time the description was written. Also, many deed descriptions will simply make reference to a lot number on a certain map that was produced and filed in a public place of records such as a County Clerk's office.

 

[Mr. Welsh]

There is some misinformation in this thread about GPS surveying. Be advised.

I'm not a surveyor nor am I very knowledgeable about the equipment so I will not get into correcting specifics, but I have played around with modern Trimble GPS systems enough to know that some statements in this thread are incorrect.

 

[RPH]

As to the squatter claim the legal term is adverse possession. No, I am not a lawyer but did have this situation at the old house involving the nieghbor. They have to improve the property and maintain it and show that for 7 years. At least that was what is needed here in Michigan.
Needless to say I had the proof he needed but he lost in court.

 

[Treeman]

Just to add nothing of value to the discussion here.....

Survey "pins" are generally vertical irons, ofter rebar, put in the ground and can be buried several inches or more to avoid disturbance. The best detector to locate them are the Schonstedt type (vs. the beach comber type).

It's not uncommon for survey pins to be already present and a new surveyor just reconfirms their position.

Surveyors can run a line up or down elevations because their transit/total station scope pivots up and down (unlike a level). Because their total station shoots a laser beam from point A to point B (a prism target that can be mounted on a tall pole), they can somewhat more easily shoot through brush (somewhat being the key word). The laser also measures the distance and corrects it for slope.

A surveyor has computer programs to change angle/bearing measurements to x/y coordinates (GPS) but one needs to know which datum system your area is using, etc.. Compass readings can be tricky due to true north vs. magnetic north (declination changes/cycles over time).

The GPS units used by surveyors to measure sub meter accuracy are much better than the $100 units available at the sporting goods store (they advertise 10 to 30 ft. accuracy).

If there is a dispute involved or likely to happen (original poster), hire a surveyor and/or look for evidence of a previous survey.

 

[wrigh003]

If there is a dispute involved or likely to happen (original poster), hire a surveyor and/or look for evidence of a previous survey.

The survey company we were referred to by a fencing contractor (figured they'd know somebody good) called Friday. He's going to find our corners, put some flags on our side boundaries, and draw us a map including setbacks (55' from house to property line, etc.) for $375, or at least that's his initial estimate. Sounds like a deal to me, and from now on we'll know where we can build/fence/plant out to (wife's a big gardener, so I dig a lot of holes...).

Nice to know about the degrees, etc. I'm sure that's right. I saw something that looked like coordinates and assumed they were lat/long. Makes WAY more sense for that to be bearings off some nearby USGS benchmark, etc.

 

[HacksawsGarage]

lol! keep in mind the grid system states and metes and bounds states may have a different focus depending on local custom and regulations for filing maps at the (in our case) town hall. co-ordinates are x and y. bearings are direction. they should both relate to true north.

 

[kbs2244]

This goes back to my comment about the power cos and GPS resurveying.
They are just finding the locations of old markers and updating their files to a newer and easier to use system in case they have to find them again.
That way each "pin" has it's own location known.
You don't have to go and find it relative to another point.
You can go straight to it.

 

[HacksawsGarage]

if the marker exists.

 

[malibu101]

if the marker exists.

IF the marker does not exist. CAN GPS alone be used to place a stake where there is none existing?

Just wondering out loud.

 

[mb190sl]

am sure it varies slightly by state, but in Illinois it is illegal for anyone but a Professional Land Surveyor licensed by the State to set a pin. Many of the ideas mentioned in previous posts can help to find existing corner pins. But, just because you find an existing pin, you don't necessarily know if it is the true corner. It may have been set erroneously by a prior property owner. You need to look at the plat of the parcel and the adjoining parcels too. Boundary disputes between neighbors can become heated and end up being costly.

 

[HacksawsGarage]

i agree with mb190sl.

i would add, that gps sytems designed for travelers are not going to be what a surveyor uses to set a pin. they use much more sophisticated equipment. or, as usually the case in the past, existing geodetic monumented control points, or any other verified survey markers tied into that sytem, can be used to traverse to your location and stake, restake, or otherwise verify existing pins.

 

[wrigh003]

Update:

Crew came out yesterday and at least located the front corners of my lot. Cool. What they didn't do yet is to flag the lines on the sides (this is why I needed them in the first place). The corners out front are pretty much (within 5-10') where I thought they were, so that's good news (sorry, neighbor - apparently you were right and I was clearing your brush back from the road). The rear corners, being completely impossible to see, make it tough to figure where the lines actually are, so they are going to come do that, if it comes to it. The words " you have about 5' of setback on the end of your house" were mentioned, which *****, because that means I've been cutting part of the neighbor's grass for 3 years, A, and B I may have to reconfigure my fence plan (go go gadget ECONOMIC STIMULUS CHECK!). I'm hoping that once they call me back they'll tell me that they meant the other neighbor's garage is set 5' off the other side of the line, which is what I was told by old neighbors back when we bought the house. The girl I talked to didn't exactly inspire confidence, there was lots of "well, if I'm reading this map right..." going on. I guess we'll see.

Anywho. I probably need to post up a picture so you can see why I have no idea where my property line is- it's not as clear-cut as most subdivison lots (both literally and figuratively). I'm supposed to go by the office in the morning and pay the man and pick up my map with setback info, etc on it - here's hoping I don't have to completely change direction.

 

[buening]

Surveying tends to be cheaper than have a structural engineer involved in something. I just quoted a client $3000 just to determine a lintel beam size in a brick wall that he will be putting an entryway in. Granted, it is a 14' entryway

Our survey crew has robotic total stations as well as rover GPS equipment, so one surveyor can run a job typically. Running level circuits require two people though.