Surviving My Own Stupidity...

[Brad54]

Not trying to be a ****, but oily rags starting a fire through spontaneous combustion is a well-worn ("shop-worn?") cliche.

I always throw an oil rag on the floor, away from everything, in case it starts to smolder. But it never does, because it's aired-out a little and has plenty of air circulation around it. Wadded up? Might as well just cut to the chase and put a match to it right away and save yourself the wait.

Metal safety can with a steel lid; they're designed specifically for this. They're plentiful at swap meets, or an 800-BUY-ONE! call to Granger or McMaster-Carr.

On another note, any time you're grinding or welding at night, wait half an hour or so before going in for the evening, just to make sure you don't smell smoke or smoldering.

Fire is incredibly unforgiving.

In situations like this, people will often say "Wow... you need to go buy a lottery ticket!"
Ryan, don't bother: You just won the lottery.
And that wood rack not going up in flames was the Power Ball. (and THAT, my friend, is one of the damnedest most amazing things I've seen)

-Brad

 

[Stuart in MN]

That was one heck of a way to add patina to the garage.

Truly amazing that the damage wasn't any worse.

 

[rlitman]

According to the fire marshal, chemistry.

The Linseed oil was on two rags - both were wrinkled up and thrown away. Linseed oil builds heat, mixes with oxygen, and combusts on its own.

Exactly. Unlike gasoline, who's vapors will seek a source of ignition, curing oils will provide their own heat if wadded up. Left out flat, they cannot build up enough heat to ignite. I have an oily rag can that gets shop rags, but if I'm using boiled linseed oil (or Minwax or other oil based stains or tung oil, etc.), I'll clip the used rags to a metal rack to hang for a few days until they become crispy before throwing them out in a metal trash can. If I had a good place to burn them, that would be even better.

I'm definitely not at all envious of the smoke damage, but you kind of have to admit that you hit the jackpot here more than on any of the typical "you ****" threads. That video, while not the first example I've seen of spontaneous combustion, still gave me the chills. Glad to hear that your lesson came at such a light cost.

Holy **** I had no idea. I guess that's the part in your video where the instructions recommend used rags to be submersed in water. I thought that was overkill but now that you mention that apparently not.

I suppose a proper metal waste disposal with lid would be a good pickup but even then O2 could get in. This idea of spontaneous combustion is a freaky thing to think about...***** what happened but certainly a good wake up call and thanks for sharing. I know I certainly learned something today.

The metal can won't stop the rag from igniting, but it will prevent it from lighting up anything around the can.

 

[PECVD2]

Ryan, can we share your video with others?

 

[1949 caddyman]

I got lucky one day. We had a party and had a fire in a portable metal pit. After 2 days I threw the ashes in our black plastic trash can. A few hours later my smells smoke. The can is smoking heavily. Put it out with water. It was under the roof eave. Would of been bad if it set roof on fire.

 

[tarmy]

Thank you for taking the time and effort...excellent public service. If that structure was attached to the house and went up...lives could be lost as well as "stuff".

I was actually aware of these dangers...and got lucky like you. I had stained a play structure for my kids...put the oil stain soaked paper towels in with the weed poison type of sprayer I got to apply the stain...put the messy towels in with the used sparyer in the box it came in...and set it outside in case there was ignition. I went for a waverunner ride and about 10 minutes in...realized I needed my wallet and went back to shore to get it. Went up past the garage and the garage was just starting to burn and was about to go up with the then burning towels, box and plastic sprayer. I got the fire put out...and later figured out that my gardener moved the box and rags next to the garage so he could blow the leaves.

If I had not coincidentially come back...that garage would have burnt down....

I now lay out all rags or towels, on concrete, separated and flat...way away from anything that can be burned...so that they have no chance of igniting anything...

Glad it worked out for you...

Again...thanks for the effort to help out folks on GJ....

 

[rharman]

Very scary indeed. Glad it wasn't worse.

Whenever I use stain or something volatile like that, I always drape the rag over a block wall outside to evaporate out all the chemical.

 

[PugetDude]

WOW!
Glad it didn't burn the whole Atomic shop down...lucky break.
Thanks for posting the reminder.

 

[1/2 Cup]

Ryan, thank you for sharing..

A timely message for every one.

Regards

 

[padroo]

Thanks for sharing.

Another hazard overlooked is an oxygen enriched environment and oxygen deficient.
Oxygen and petroleum products don't mix.

 

[Ray Bly]

Amazing that the rest of the shop didn't go up with it . wow! we have all done things that have been like that, I decided to weld next to an open gallon can of lacquer thinner, to this day when I lifted my hood I have no idea how it didn't catch on fire. Lucky I guess.

 

[ford33]

Interesting to watch. I was surprised to see the intensity of the fire and it that grows so quickly. You are fortunate that it did not cause extensive damage.

Thanks for posting.

 

[ADSR]

wow! God was on your side, friend. That could have ended very ugly!! I've made it a habit to soak any oily rag in a bucket of water before I toss it in the trash. Those explosions made me cringe watching the shop cam.

 

[woodymark]

I will add to the guys that saw lay them flat on the concrete. They will cure and once cured the danger is gone.

 

[Olafur]

It doesn't get much closer than this.
Pay close attention to corrosion on everything metal next weeks - you may have to clean everything to prevent it. Even inside closed toolboxes. ..

---

It would be helpful to have a summary of oils that can do this. In my experience oils and grease (lubricants) used in automotive or whatever machinery don't.

The problem seems to be with drying oils and is explained here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drying_oil

Good enough?

 

[TMcCay]

Good reminder for everyone Ryan. I don't have a Justrite can but I do keep my oily rags in a small metal can with a tight fitting lid.
And I agree with Brad54, no need to buy a lottery ticket. You have already won!

 

[countryroad82]

Well while it *****, it happens to everyone. The biggest thing is did we learn anything from this?

 

[ishiboo]

I'm super careful with that. Immediately after I'm done using them, the rags get thrown out an open door/window. When I'm done working they get hosed down and then thrown on the burn pile. (I'm in the country, if it was windy and the burn pile spontaneously ignited it could still be bad.)

While I'm more careful, I never figured two rags wadded up would be enough to do it... I always imagined larger piles of rags.

 

[Hephaestus29]

That's why I use paper towels most of
the time.

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

Spotanious combustion is the reason that King Tut's body was burned in his sarcophagus. A combination of oxygen, embalming oils and linen fabric self ignited after he was sealed in side and they reached a temp exceeding 400 degrees F. As strange as it seems this is the reason that i have a fire proof can with a spring tensioned can in my shop for rags. I used to watch alot of National Geographic.

 

[LB-1911]

That's why I use paper towels most of
the time.

Makes no difference.


Yes, boiled linseed oil CAN combust as it dries!

 

[ishiboo]

That's why I use paper towels most of
the time.

Those would ignite even easier than rags? I'm confused.

 

[406Rich]

My neighbor did the same with his 90 gallon roll out trash can...now he has a ********* spot in the curb by the street..

 

[Showkey]

A few years back neighbor's house burned to the ground .......from staining rags on the porch left there from the floor refinishing contractor.

Not occupied at the time, $650k loss, 18 months to rebuild and huge insurance cluster due to the circumstances.

 

[gahrajmahal]

Will definitely use your experience to shape up on that . .

Working on a furniture restoration right now and am changing my lazy ways!

 

[red94chev]

That's insane. You really dodged a bullet there!

 

[wood02]

Thank you for the reminder. I am heading to the garage!

 

[IndyGarage]

Wow great video.

Of course we've all heard of oily rags combusting. I've never seen it though.

I had no idea that just a couple of wadded up paper towels with linseed oil on them could go up like that. A few months ago I soaked some hammer handles in linseed oil, and I probably used some paper towels to clean up afterward. Don't remember, but I never thought they were that combustible.

Sorry for your trouble, but thanks for the warning.

 

[rzims]

thank you for sharing....I definitely learned something today.

 

[Knyte Tyne]

Ryan - I'm glad you and your shop are safe... Just out of interest sake, Is there perhaps not a sticky "Safety" thread anywhere... I think that video could help educate a lot of people. Its always one thing to tell a person. But to show them can be far more impact-full... perhaps we can all add our Workshop Safety "best Practices" that some of us might know in our professional or limited capacities.

Again... I'm super thankful it didn't turn into something worse...

 

[Toothaker]

Ryan, thank you for posting that excellent fire safety reminder. And I agree with everyone else, you were very fortunate that night. It could have been so much worse.

Now, I have a new shopping list:

• Get a fire alarm installed in my attached garage

• Get a garage-appropriate fire extinguisher (or two)

• Get a fire safe metal trash can

 

[James E]

Yeah, I'm glad your shop (and that Porsche) and everyone involved are all right!

I was aware that linseed oil would spontaneously combust and on the few times I have used it, I will throw the rags outside the shop and let them thoroughly dry out before I throw them away. But now that I've seen your vid, I'm going to buy a fireproof rag can.

Since this thread serves a public service purpose, I will also throw out there: I have been told that neatsfoot oil is also very prone to spontaneous combustion. I sometimes use that on leather after cleaning it and wind up with a bunch of rags soaked in the stuff.

 

[gsmith22]

it could have been a lot worse:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Meridian_Plaza

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil
explains how the chemical reaction creates spontaneous combustion.

 

[Jackfre]

Life is a humbling experience!

 

[MoonRise]

Wow great video.

Of course we've all heard of oily rags combusting. I've never seen it though.

I had no idea that just a couple of wadded up paper towels with linseed oil on them could go up like that. A few months ago I soaked some hammer handles in linseed oil, and I probably used some paper towels to clean up afterward. Don't remember, but I never thought they were that combustible.

Quoting here to point out that not only are the rags or paper towels and the linseed oil combustible, but a wadded up rag/towel with linseed oil on it is

spontaneously combustible.

As mentioned, linseed oil 'cures' by oxidizing.

That oxidation process produces some heat.

If that heat is 'trapped' by being in a wadded up rag, then it causes the chemical oxidation reaction to happen faster.

Which causes more heat, which causes the oxidation reaction to occur even faster.

Which can cause enough heat to build up to ignite the combustible rag and linseed oil (which is combustible in both its liquid uncured form as well as its solid cured form.)

As Ryan mentioned in his vid discussing the event, RTFM (or label).

Sometimes, we just sort of glance at the label. Or get complacent with all the lawyer-ese and warnings all over the place.

But as Ryan said and experienced, the warning about linseed oil on a wadded up rag or towel is no joke.

It can and does indeed have the potential to ignite.

Ryan, you were darn lucky.

 

[cvairwerks]

Something else to remember guys, is that oils are not the only problem. Many adhesives undergo exothermic reactions when mixed for use. Sure, they often don't make a lot of heat when they are mixed, but I have seen where as little as 1 cc of a two part adhesive, mixed and contained in the wrong conditions has started a fire.

We all play with lots of different chemicals in our garages and shops. Take a few minutes and read the labels on them and their MSDS's and plan for proper handling and disposal of them. It's no fun to read about someone we know that lost projects or shops or family members due to not knowing about an easily preventable hazard.

 

[CTyankee]

Ryan, thank you for posting that excellent fire safety reminder. And I agree with everyone else, you were very fortunate that night. It could have been so much worse.

Now, I have a new shopping list:

• Get a fire alarm installed in my attached garage

• Get a garage-appropriate fire extinguisher (or two)

• Get a fire safe metal trash can

Really surprised he replaced the plastic can with another one...even if he doesn't plan on repeating the same mistake. I doubt he would have had anywhere near that smoke damage if just the couple of rags had burnt up.

 

[IndyGarage]

Quoting here to point out that not only are the rags or paper towels and the linseed oil combustible, but a wadded up rag/towel with linseed oil on it is

spontaneously combustible.

As mentioned, linseed oil 'cures' by oxidizing.

That oxidation process produces some heat.

If that heat is 'trapped' by being in a wadded up rag, then it causes the chemical oxidation reaction to happen faster.

Which causes more heat, which causes the oxidation reaction to occur even faster.

Which can cause enough heat to build up to ignite the combustible rag and linseed oil (which is combustible in both its liquid uncured form as well as its solid cured form.)

As Ryan mentioned in his vid discussing the event, RTFM (or label).

Sometimes, we just sort of glance at the label. Or get complacent with all the lawyer-ese and warnings all over the place.

But as Ryan said and experienced, the warning about linseed oil on a wadded up rag or towel is no joke.

It can and does indeed have the potential to ignite.

Ryan, you were darn lucky.

Good clarification.

The problem with labels is that you buy a simple tool which has four pages of "don't put the sawsall blade in your mouth and turn it on" type warnings that you tend to ignore them - well, you might not, but I do.

That's why Ryan's video is so good. If he just showed the molten pile of plastic on the floor it wouldn't be nearly as effective - but he has the security camera footage - you can see the combustion in action and hear the crackling and popping and, even when you know the fire doesn't spread - you can easily see how close it was to taking the whole building down.

From now forward I will remember that video when I'm working with oily rags - I'll probably take my trash to the dumpster more often too.

 

[Dr Stan]

Excellent reminder on fire safety. I've attended four firefighting schools, but that was 40 years ago. Even so I hang up all oily/solvent/etc rags to dry out before they are trashed.

I've only had one shop fire and that was when I was teaching at a vo-tech. Unknown to me my acetylene bottle was leaking while I was using it to remove paint from a metal chair. A student called my attention to the 12" flame coming out next to the regulator. I had the students leave while I went back in and shot a dry chemical extinguisher over the top of the bottle to smother the fire.

I had been in a hurry and failed to check the acetylene bottle/regulator connection for leaks. Turned out the seat in the tank valve was damaged causing a leak. That was the last time I make that mistake as it just does not matter how soon I need the Oxy/Acet up and functioning. Checking for leaks with a spritzer bottle filled with soapy water comes first, period.

 

[Ryan]

Really surprised he replaced the plastic can with another one...even if he doesn't plan on repeating the same mistake. I doubt he would have had anywhere near that smoke damage if just the couple of rags had burnt up.

I'm right here man. I can hear everything you say.

Actually, that trash can is from my office. I brought it in for demonstration on the video. My buddy (the fire marshal) hooked me up with a metal can.

Also, about fire alarms. I have one... and it went off, but the shop is so far from the house that I didn't hear it. Obviously, I've got to come up with some kind of a solution for that.