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Swapping 20amp plug for 50amp plug?

bassman2

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SW Washington
I just picked up a new dust collector and it has a 20amp 3 wire 220v plug.

My new shop (I should post pics - there's some on arfcom) has 3 - 50amp 220 plugs.

I can't seem to get my electrician to swap breakers and plugs - even though we're in the middle of building a house and they're onsite regularly!

Do you guys see any issue with just making an adapter - or cutting off the 20amp plug and using the 3 wire 50amp male plug?

I've searched and found everything from - don't do it, to yeah not really an issue... but I figure there's a reason why no one makes an adapter...

I really need to get the new dust collector up and running for a project. What would you guys do?
 
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sberry

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No, the machine came with a 20A, it's designed to be plugged in to a limited circuit. This is a good place to learn to install a simple circuit.
 
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davetulk

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Mid Florida
Like you said you can switch the breaker to 20amp and change the receptacle. Or run a new 20amp circuit.

It's pretty dangerous to hook a 20amp rated appliance to a 50 amp circuit. If the machine shorts there is nothing to protect more than 20 amps arriving at the machine....the internals of the machine is not rated for that. How fires start if there is a fault because the protection will not kick in until way above the machine rating. Best cause the wire melts in the mahince and kills power to the machine however leaving an open pigtail plugged into a 50amp 220v circuit...worst case it all burns down. Neither case is an acceptable case
 
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matt_i

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In concept, if I want to plug a 0.2A (24W) USB charger into a 20A circuit, I don't change breakers.

Imo, the circuit breaker is responsible for the downstream conductors up to the receptacle. Only.

Here's how I would approach this problem. Add the 50A plug, get an old school 2 pole fuse block, and equip it with 20A fuses. Have to pay attention to the conductor size in the cord depending on where the fuse block is mounted.
 
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mm08822

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They probably don't want to change it out b/c they will need pigtails at the new 20a cb and recept b/c the existing conductors are too big.

If they are on site, tell them you want a new 20a 240vac circuit/recept added. They can properly install this w/o having to hack up the existing ckt. Either way you are going to pay them a few $, so get it done right with the new ckt.
 
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bassman2

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Thanks for all the good info. I think I'll just have them change out the 50 amp breaker and put in a new plug. I have an additional 50 amp line coiled up ready to drop from the ceiling. I'm still trying to figure out where I want it...exactly. That's why I need my dust collector (20 amp) in position - so I can lay out everything and figure out where to drop the line for the table saw.
 

finn

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I'm not an electrician, but couldn't they install a 70 amp subpannel or load center with the existing 50 amp capable wiring (and breaker in the main panel) and install a second 50 amp breaker in the new panel wired to the existing outlet and a new, 20 amp breaker wired to a new 20 amp outlet?

Wiring would be minimal and you retain 50 amp capability for when you need it.
 
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ard

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I'm not an electrician, but couldn't they install a 70 amp subpannel or load center with the existing 50 amp capable wiring (and breaker in the main panel) and install a second 50 amp breaker in the new panel wired to the existing outlet and a new, 20 amp breaker wired to a new 20 amp outlet?

Wiring would be minimal and you retain 50 amp capability for when you need it.

My guess is this is all IN ONE ROOM. One 'shop'

He already has three 50A dedicated runs, a subpanel on a an adjacent wall seems way overkill. Even by GJ standards! ;)
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
I just picked up a new dust collector and it has a 20amp 3 wire 220v plug.

My new shop (I should post pics - there's some on arfcom) has 3 - 50amp 220 plugs.

I can't seem to get my electrician to swap breakers and plugs - even though we're in the middle of building a house and they're onsite regularly!

Do you guys see any issue with just making an adapter - or cutting off the 20amp plug and using the 3 wire 50amp male plug?

I've searched and found everything from - don't do it, to yeah not really an issue... but I figure there's a reason why no one makes an adapter...

I really need to get the new dust collector up and running for a project. What would you guys do?

DONT make an adapter.

And DONT cut off the 20a plug. You violate the listing doing this.

Instead, either swap the breaker and outlet or run a new circuit.

Running a new circuit is pretty basic and you can even get guidance on here on how to do it.

Like you said you can switch the breaker to 20amp and change the receptacle. Or run a new 20amp circuit.

It's pretty dangerous to hook a 20amp rated appliance to a 50 amp circuit. If the machine shorts there is nothing to protect more than 20 amps arriving at the machine....the internals of the machine is not rated for that. How fires start if there is a fault because the protection will not kick in until way above the machine rating. Best cause the wire melts in the machine and kills power to the machine however leaving an open pigtail plugged into a 50amp 220v circuit...worst case it all burns down. Neither case is an acceptable case

This isnt accurate.

People often confuse over-current with short circuit (happens many times on this forum).

Over-current is when current greater than the rating of the breaker is drawn. This is where the thermal portion of the breaker comes into play. The bi-metal strip in the breaker heats up and touches the trip bar.

Amp flowing during a short circuit, on the other hand, can be on the order of hundreds and even thousands of amps for split seconds depending on the voltage and type of service(tens of thousands of amps are possible in a short circuit on a 480v delta which can cause bus bars etc to melt and vaporize). This is called fault current. This is where the electromagnetic circuit in the breaker comes into play. The electromagnet attracts the armature and trips the breaker....

2 entirely different things.

You can have the same amount of short circuit fault current with a 20a breaker that you can have with a 50a breaker. The available short circuit fault current is all dependent on the size of the transformer feeding the service and the panel and breaker designs. Residential breakers are typically rated 10KAIC.......

Now in regards to OP, it is possible for one of the windings in the motor to fail and short circuit. a 20a breaker and a 50a breaker would clear this in the same amount of time.

On the other hand, a motor could start pulling more amps than the breaker is rated for say if the load the motor is connected to jambs.

But motors also have inherent in-rush current. So breakers for motor circuits are typically sized for only short circuit and ground fault protection. Separate over-current protection is provided in a motor starter or integral in the motor....
 
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sberry

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In concept, if I want to plug a 0.2A (24W) USB charger into a 20A circuit, I don't change breakers.

Imo, the circuit breaker is responsible for the downstream conductors up to the receptacle. Only.
No, the charger and its design are rated for connection to a 20A, the circuit breaker often provides fault protection for the internals of the machine. The wire in the cord must be rated for it. The phone charger doesn't even have a cord in many cases. If the breaker wont provide fault for the machine then there is additional protection installed,,, modern Christmas lights are an example, additional 2 amp fuses.
My pressure washer is a great example of this, even though the control wires and many of the parts use 1/2 the current at 240 they would at 120 the leads are upsized for connection to 30A breakers. The only additional protection in the machine is a thermal on the blower motor.
There is a legal limit for extension cords for this reason. Internal wiring in an electric range is a good example, no fuses. An AC buzzer welder is similar to the range but a compact mig has fuses right after the switch to protect a gob of small wire from a 50A circuit.
 

MikeF2316

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Dec 29, 2012
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Thornhill, ON
In concept, if I want to plug a 0.2A (24W) USB charger into a 20A circuit, I don't change breakers.

Imo, the circuit breaker is responsible for the downstream conductors up to the receptacle. Only.

I have computer/monitor power cords that have "Maximum 10A" stickers on them. I still plug them into 15 amp recepticles. I have multi-bulb light fixtures with internal 18 gauge wiring that are designed to go on 15 or 20 amp circuits. So it seems in some situations, the panel breaker will not protect the whole circuit.

But when I had A/C installed in my house, I ran 8 gauge cable from the panel, and installed a 40 amp breaker. The guy installing the unit made me put in a 30 amp breaker and explained the reasoning to me. (He gave me the 30 and took my 40 in exchange)
 

finn

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The UP, God's country
My guess is this is all IN ONE ROOM. One 'shop'

He already has three 50A dedicated runs, a subpanel on a an adjacent wall seems way overkill. Even by GJ standards! ;)

I'm picturing a main panel with one or more 50 amp breakers feeding one or more 50 amp recepticals located on the far wall of the shop.

Simply repurpose one of those circuits to feed an inexpensive load center which will hold two new breakers, a 50 and a 20 amp.

Wiring is minor, and total cost of material is probably less than $75, and he's not running new conduit across the shop.
 
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