Sweating copper water pipe installed on ceiling

[bmwpower]

I need to run a copper water line up my wall, across my ceiling and down the other wall to attach a water hose reel. I'm afraid the pipe is going to sweat and drop water droplets onto my clean cars.

I could wrap the line in insulation, but not sure if that would still leak.

I could run the line up the wall, against the outside wall and back down again, but that would require more copper and more right angles = less flow.

Not sure which is better (or both).

 

[1320stang]

How about running the piece that goes across the ceiling inside a larger piece of PVC? Put some dessicant inside and seal the ends up with caulk/silicone/RTV/expanding foam. If you use some small pieces if foam insulation as spacers to keep it from touching the PVC, I wouldn't think the PVC would sweat. Plus the PVC is white and would disappear across the ceiling.

 

[PAToyota]

I like Stang's idea, but not sure about the dessicant part - if the PVC is sealed there won't be any humidity to condense in the first place so I'm not sure that it is an issue. Guess it wouldn't hurt - it would just collect any moisture that is in there at the time you put it together.

 

[bmwpower]

Just thought about something... what if I ran it in the attic and insulated it? I guess I'd have the same problem except it would definitely sweat in the attic.

 

[1320stang]

I like Stang's idea, but not sure about the dessicant part - if the PVC is sealed there won't be any humidity to condense in the first place so I'm not sure that it is an issue. Guess it wouldn't hurt - it would just collect any moisture that is in there at the time you put it together.

That was what I was thinking.

 

[flesburg]

Insulation made for water pipes works.

It is black, dense foam material with a slit on one side..slip it over and tape it.
We use it in industrial plant and it stops water condensation. The plumbers know what it is, should be able to get at a plumbing supply store.

 

[66RICH]

Lengths of armaflex such as used on A/C return
lines is available in most commom sizes that will
slip over the copper line. (use talcom powder to
help push around 90's. This will stop it from sweating
even in the attic.
Remember that hose reel line will only sweat when the
line is running water thru it. The water will reach room
temp when not in use.
Rich

 

[RickP330]

I know it sux but go to the attic and insulate it ( or put a valve up there and be sure to drain it every winter - that's what my pop does). At least the length along celing over the car. You can bust out along the walls if you have to. That is what I plan on doing with my air lines. I hate pipes along the walls - they will mess up the look of your nice garage

What do you need so much water flow for?
Rick

 

[bmwpower]

I know it sux but go to the attic and insulate it ( or put a valve up there and be sure to drain it every winter - that's what my pop does). At least the length along celing over the car. You can bust out along the walls if you have to. That is what I plan on doing with my air lines. I hate pipes along the walls - they will mess up the look of your nice garage

What do you need so much water flow for?
Rick

Yea, forgot about the winter thing. I'd like to be able to use it during the winter without having the drain it all the time..

I don't need that much flow. Water is coming a long way so I wanted to do it right, if possible.

 

[steve392]

I'm with flesburg and 66rich on this one. Get the foam insulation specifically made for copper tubing at Lowe's, H-D, or better yet, a plumbing supply. It fits nice and tight, you can miter the insulation at the ells for a neat appearance, and use tape to seal the seams if you like. Better off keeping it simple....no sweat (pun intended).

Steve

 

[bmwpower]

That foam insulation is black right? I'd like to find that commercial plastic pipe wrap stuff I see in factories that goes over the insulation. Would blend better with the ceiling.

 

[steve392]

Most of the foam stuff I've seen is black. Google "pipe insulation covering" or "pipe insulation jacket", and there's plenty to choose from. As you say, these are mainly used in commercial applications, but they do offer a PVC type covering over the foam.
Here's one I found on the first search:
http://www.sandsinsulation.com/HTML/pipe-insulation.html

Hope this helps,

Steve

 

[HoosierBuddy]

If you insulate it properly it won't sweat. The sweating starts when the surface in contact with the air is below the air's dew point. The insulation will seal the cold surface of the water line so that humid air can't get to it and condense.

Phil

 

[fastleft]

Check out McMaster Carr. They have everything you could imagine. If you search for "pipe wrap" there are 9 pages of different pipe insulation's. When took a quick look I noticed that they listed "Flexible Condensation-Reducing Insulation Wrap for Pipe and Tube" on page 3391... one of them is even off-white. I order from them all the time and shipping is reasonable and super fast especially to NJ. With regular ground shipping I sometimes get same day delivery and I always have it the next day at the latest.

Tommy

 

[Morrisman]

If you insulate it properly it won't sweat. The sweating starts when the surface in contact with the air is below the air's dew point. The insulation will seal the cold surface of the water line so that humid air can't get to it and condense.

Phil

The insulation removes the sharp temperature differential, allowing a slow change from cold pipe to to warm air, hence no condensate.

 

[kbs2244]

Yeah, you are for sure "over engineering" on this one.
The split foam stuff was invented for just this application.
It is cheap, easy to use, and it works just fine.

 

[Morrisman]

I've just this morning unwrapped yards of electrical insulating tape from an insulated cold water pipe in the gym on my ship. It was dripping water everywhere, and some kind soul had even used silicon sealant to seal the tape where it went past pipe supports, obviously convinced the water came from within the wrapping.

What a rocket scientist

No tape: and now no dripping.

 

[bmwpower]

I've just this morning unwrapped yards of electrical insulating tape from an insulated cold water pipe in the gym on my ship. It was dripping water everywhere, and some kind soul had even used silicon sealant to seal the tape where it went past pipe supports, obviously convinced the water came from within the wrapping.

What a rocket scientist

No tape: and now no dripping.

I don't get it. So the pipe itself was leaking?

 

[rickairmedic]

I don't get it. So the pipe itself was leaking?

Nope Prolly had the tape touching the pipe at points and it was condensating . BMW all you need is the pipe insulation from lowes/home depot . I wouldnt bother messing with a plumbers supply unless you have one closer than home desperate as their prices are only pennies cheaper than homy desperates prices . if you want it white grab a couple cans of flat white rattle can and shoot it white .


Rick

 

[Vicegrip]

Get the stuff that is pre split and has sticky tape in the seam. You put it together around the pipe and pull the plastic cover off the sticky part and the foam seals up with no outside tape that goes bad after a few years. use contact cement on the miters for a fully sealed no tape look.

I have run this stuff on water piping above health club shower areas and it works well.

Just don't use the 120V version.

 

[Morrisman]

I don't get it. So the pipe itself was leaking?

No. The tape effectively sealed the cold in completely, making the tape eventually get as cold as the pipe, and the tape just formed condensation, instead of the pipe.

The idea of the insulation is to trap air pockets and stop a sudden hot/cold situation, so the temp change is gradual between the cold pipe and the warm surrounding air.

If you wear glasses and walk from a cold room into the warm street, you get condensation on the glasses, but you don't get it on your jeans: air pockets change temp quickly and easily, hard solid objects don't.

If you have an expensive camera, and you keep it inside the cold air-con house, when you pick it up and take it outside to film the kids playing you'll find it suddenly develops mist all over the surfaces, on the lenses etc. To prevent that you can put it inside a Ziplok plastic bag before you leave the cold room, which prevents the warm air getting to it outside. After ten minutes outside it will all have warmed up to the same temp, and you can take it out of the bag knowing it doesn't have any wetness on its expensive internals.