sweaty floor

[juice]

my 2 1/2 car garage floor is 7 years old. i moved into this place a few months ago and i notice when ever theres any humidity only 1/2 the floor sweats-moisture rings- around the garage are concrete sidewalks which are properly sloped away from the garage. i am looking for a real good floor sealer to stop this mess. i checked out quite a few internet sites but i can't get any of them to commit that there product will correct this problem 100%. any one know of a good sealer for the do it yourselfer? i'm about ready to bust it up and have it re-poured.

 

[bmwpower]

Sounds like you don't have a vapor barrier under your slab. The moisture is coming up from under the slab via capillary action. Not sure you will find a sealer that will work. The water will continue to try and travel through the slab, popping the sealer at the surface.

Maybe others will have better advice or product recommendation.

 

[hitek]

give these guys a yell...

http://www.radonseal.com/

 

[Morrisman]

I've been advised that without a full waterproof membrane under the concrete base you will never get any sort of sealant to stick to the concrete, as damp will always come up from below. I hope to be proven wrong, in case I ever need the info.

 

[juice]

i went to the radon seal website as hitek suggested and ordered a small sample bottle of there sealer, 18 bucks for the sample. i will give it a try as i personnally never experienced a probem like this with a garage floor, the weird part is only half the floor sweats. i was going to try some vinyl roll flooring by jnk or blk but other posts on this forum claim they bunch up in cold weather so sealing is about the only option i see.

 

[Junkman]

My garage floor is sealed with 6 mil poly under the concrete and the top surface is also sealed. Today, I had both front and rear garage doors open. It has been raining for the past 18 hours, and the air is moisture laden. The moisture in the air has caused the garage floor surface to become moist. I know that when the doors are closed, that the garage is dry as a bone. Your problem might just be air infiltration that is moisture laden and it is condensing on only the warm areas of the floor. To test my theory, place a piece of cardboard on the floor when it is dry. If after 24 hours, it is moist under the cardboard, then the moisture is coming up from underneath. If it is dry, then the moisture is condensing on the warm surface of the concrete. If you want to seal the concrete, you should wait till summer and do it on a warm day with low humidity. The concrete will need to be cleaned first.
I am not sure which is worse... sweaty floors or sweaty feet!!

 

[PAToyota]

I get "sweaty" floors - on top of the epoxy - when you have the outside temperature bouncing back and forth. The slab cools down when it is cold and then when it warms up and is humid all the vapor condenses on the slab. Have to get the radiant heat up and running so that I can "warm" the slab and get rid of the problem.

 

[juice]

i will have to keep an eye on it as we had been having lots of freezing rain instead of snow--but it only does it on half the floor--also i put a 6 foot level on it and by the block foundation i see it's about a sixteenth of an inch low so i may also try some floor leveler cause when you park anything there that's wet or snow covered all the water puddles against the block.

 

[Junkman]

i will have to keep an eye on it as we had been having lots of freezing rain instead of snow--but it only does it on half the floor--also i put a 6 foot level on it and by the block foundation i see it's about a sixteenth of an inch low so i may also try some floor leveler cause when you park anything there that's wet or snow covered all the water puddles against the block.

Trying to level out 1/16" is like chasing butterflies. You can do it, but why bother. I doubt that any garage floor is within a 1/16" variation. Chances are that what ever you use as a leveler, isn't going to adhere properly in that thickness. If it were mine, I would learn to live with it.

 

[bmwpower]

Trying to level out 1/16" is like chasing butterflies. You can do it, but why bother. I doubt that any garage floor is within a 1/16" variation. Chances are that what ever you use as a leveler, isn't going to adhere properly in that thickness. If it were mine, I would learn to live with it.

My friend who works for the FAA has contracted companies to do the concrete runways on their test lab. The specs are <1/8" variance along the entire slab. Granted, the slab is huge, but still, even their spec is larger than 1/16".

 

[Junkman]

The FAA spends a lot more having there concrete work done than the average homeowner or builder. I am not saying that it can't be done, I am saying that for all practical purposes, it isn't done in the normal course of events in building a garage. I imagine that someone like Jay Leno might spend the money in his garage, but us common folk with limited incomes, wouldn't. Even if we did have the kind of money that this task would take, I wonder how many of us would even spend it on something as insignificant as to hold it to 1/16 of an inch of tollerance?

 

[PAToyota]

We built one of those automated warehousing systems once and the tolerance for the slabs was 1/16" over 50' by necessity of the robotic warehousing machinery - they did it, but it wasn't inexpensive.

 

[hitek]

i went to the radon seal website as hitek suggested and ordered a small sample bottle of there sealer, 18 bucks for the sample. i will give it a try as i personnally never experienced a probem like this with a garage floor, the weird part is only half the floor sweats. i was going to try some vinyl roll flooring by jnk or blk but other posts on this forum claim they bunch up in cold weather so sealing is about the only option i see.

which product did they recommend? We have used the Radon Seal a few times.

 

[juice]

radon seal?

 

[D-Cal]

The FAA spends a lot more having there concrete work done than the average homeowner or builder. I am not saying that it can't be done, I am saying that for all practical purposes, it isn't done in the normal course of events in building a garage.

I think BMW was agreeing with you - not contradicting. He was saying an important organization buying lots of concrete still doesn't require a tolerance that tight.

 

[65vetteracer]

It sounds to me as you have a vapor barrier issue, I would not try to paint or seal it as it will surely blister. You are a prime candidate for a suspended modular floor system

 

[juice]

sounds pricey--the floor is 725 sq. feet--but probably cheaper than re doing it.

 

[hitek]

radon seal?

Cool, when you think about how this stuff works, I think it should solve your problem....
as concrete cures and water comes to the surface it makes veins...the Radon Seal is supposed to go from the surface back down through those same veins and plug them up....sounds logical.

 

[juice]

i ordered a sample of there --last seal-- try a little bit to see if it helps. thanks

 

[DynoDave]

Let us know what you think of the stuff, Juice.

 

[12gauge]

can you supply an update on that Radon seal sample you ordered?

 

[juice]

i used the w.e.t. product last june and can't see a difference when it rains hard or snow builds up around the foundation blocks i still have water and leakage problems. this product is from texas -www.wet.com,-i can't really recommend it. i paid around $700.00 for the cleaner,sealer and shipping. they are called wet engineering technologies.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

Trying to level out 1/16" is like chasing butterflies. You can do it, but why bother. I doubt that any garage floor is within a 1/16" variation. Chances are that what ever you use as a leveler, isn't going to adhere properly in that thickness. If it were mine, I would learn to live with it.

Our coatings are applyed 1/16" (60 mils) on a regular basis...

 

[DynoDave]

So juice, just to clarify, you didn't end up using the radon seal sample?

 

[e-tek]

I see no-one has suggested using a waterbased floor covering, such as U-Coat (Google it). I learned of this after being told you had to wait 6 months for new concrete to dry out before applying Epoxy - which may be true, but only of solvent-based Epoxy. As I later learned, I could have used U-Coat immediatly and then (if you want) put a Solvent-based Clear on it later.

 

[juice]

yes, i did try the radon seal sample a month before i used the wet seal and didn't see any difference between the products-- i am interrested in the wolverine coatings but they never sent any printed info that i requested so now i am looking at u-coat-it as the por product has some problems. i figure with the price of u-coat-it if it doesn't hold up i'm not out a whole lot of money compared to the other products. i have a 2and a 1/2 car garage and two courses of block i want to do.

 

[DynoDave]

Juice,

That's NOT what I wanted to hear, but thanks for letting me know.

 

[juice]

i hear ya--just my opinion after using this stuff--be nice if there was a money back guarantee with no strings attached. it might work for you as i am sure most cases are different. it seems most internet ads for products are more brag than substance. i think after this if i ever was to do it again i would find a professonal company or concrete place with a 100% money back guarantee but then again every place is for profit so it would be taking a chance. i would consider jnk flooring or racedeck but i really got better things to do with money.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

yes, i did try the radon seal sample a month before i used the wet seal and didn't see any difference between the products-- i am interrested in the wolverine coatings but they never sent any printed info that i requested so now i am looking at u-coat-it as the por product has some problems. i figure with the price of u-coat-it if it doesn't hold up i'm not out a whole lot of money compared to the other products. i have a 2and a 1/2 car garage and two courses of block i want to do.

Hey Juice,

I'm going to guess that you did not mention that you were from the Garage Journal forums. We have not officially entered into the DIY market yet and are only servicing the general public who are members are affiliated with this board. You may want to send that request again and maybe leave a link to this post. Bill will get back to you next week. Again, don't forget to mention that you are from Garage Journal!!!

http://wolverinecoatings.com/html/contacts.html

 

[WolverineCoatings]

I see no-one has suggested using a waterbased floor covering, such as U-Coat (Google it). I learned of this after being told you had to wait 6 months for new concrete to dry out before applying Epoxy - which may be true, but only of solvent-based Epoxy. As I later learned, I could have used U-Coat immediatly and then (if you want) put a Solvent-based Clear on it later.

Waterbased coatings in general are weak. The ones that are not weak are extremely expensive. The only waterbased coatings I would recommend for a garage floor would be a curing sealer when it is first applied. This is one of those times when the 'water' factor doesn't really matter because of all of the 'free' water in the concrete that has not reacted. Of course, almost all of these have to be stripped or blasted off later if you want to coat the floor.

This brings us to the exception. BondTite 1501 is used in place of a concrete curing sealer and is applied as soon as there is no ponding water and the concrete is hard enough to walk on. (The preferred method of finishing the concrete is a broom finish on the concrete.) Then, the BondTite 1501 can be topcoated after 17-48 hours depending on the temperature and humidity. You can also wait a longer period of time if you had a need to... but... you don't have to wait the traditional 28 days! That's why the BondTite 1501 is perfect for pole barns.

I know the U-Coat product can (and should) be applied to a wet floor, but... are you sure that it can be applied to unprepped green concrete? As far as I know, BondTite 1501 (which we also make and label for other paint manufacturers under their own label) is the only product that can allow fresh poured 'green' concrete to be coated immediately.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

It sounds as if you have plastic sheeting under 1/2 of the slab and not the whole thing. I've seen stuff like this happen, the contractor runs out of something "non-essential" like this and they simply continue on to get the job done. They figure the owner will never know or notice anyhow. All kinds of shady things happen when no one is looking and you cannot go back later and check on it.

The contractor who put up my building constructed a number of metal aircraft hangars at a nearby public airport. The lots were leased out but all of the owners had to agree to go with one type of building and one contractor (apparently a friend of someone on the airport authority). The buildings were second rate, and my contractor was hired as a sub to pour slabs and erect the buildings. Apparently the prime contractor was one in name only. Since my contractor was acting as a sub, he had to do things the way the big guy wanted it done. In the heat of a real dry summer, they poured the monolith slabs directly on the dirt, with no rock, and no plastic. These people paid a lot for this and basically got took, inferior steel buildings with red iron and channel and Z steel that began rusting right away, door headers that sagged several inches in the middle over 50 ft, and concrete with no moisture barrier no seal coat on top. I went to look at the work and all of those slabs had cracked along the footing to slab boundary at every pier, and this was prior to the owner occupying the building!

My contractor felt real bad about the whole thing, but his only option was to walk away and he needed the work.

Charles

 

[Kevin54]

Okay...I have a question for all to ponder. And this may very well have to do with location and / or the construction of the floor. When I had my garage floor poured, I asked about a vapor barrier. The contractor told me that he never uses one because he wants any moisture to drain out. He told me that on some pours he has done that he will put a vapor barrier down and it seems the floor always has moisture problems. Now the reason he explained to me was that the type of soil we have, hard clay, that any water would have a hard time penetrating it. And I know that when we have dug with a 'hoe before, you get 2-3' down it is dusty dry, even after a weeks worth of rain. So when the foundation is layed he backfills with nothing but stone. And this stone is 3/4 and probably 2'+ deep. He said with the stone this deep, that it gives the moisture somewhere to go. And he went on to explain that with a vapor barrier up towards the top, that moisture would actually have a chance to lay on top of the barrier depending on the amount of rainfall. Okay, now to explain the foundation. Garages around here generally have three types of foundations. A floating slab, where the edges are approx. a foor thick and the floor is 4" all sitting on a bed of stone, next is a poured foundation, whereas the footer is 3' down to the frost line and a wall poured on top of that, and then the block foundation, where the footer is again 3' down and then block layed on top of that. Very rarely will they ever seal a foundation for a garage. Of everything around here, mine included, nothing ever sweats. My son's in the summer time, and he is on a hill, he will have to literally take a squeegee to his. But he is in a different location than me (20 miles north) and he does not have the clay that we do here. same type of block foundation though. Although I don't know if he has gravel as thick as mine either. Don't get me wrong, not trying to hijack the thread, just adding my $.02 as to why one may sweat and one may not.

Kevin