Swisstrax Install & 3yr Armorpoxy Update (yellowed & dull)

[nc.detail]

After three relatively short years, I finally made the decision to cover my aging Armorpoxy with Swisstrax.

Structurally, the Armorpoxy is doing it's job but the appearance is just terrible. Meaning, it's not peeling but looks like garbage. What was once a bright and shiny floor has turned into a dull and yellowing mess that has been bugging me for months. I wanted it to work and thought I chose the right product but it's just not holding up as expected. For reference, I chose the Designer Grey with upgraded Military topcoat and also did a primer layer. Not exactly cheap since I have about 1k sq ft to cover. I am attributing much of the degradation to the sun exposure as the other garage looks much better since it's rarely open. I filled the expansion joints this past winter with Silka, again something I should've done from the beginning.

Over the past three months I contemplated over my choices. About two weeks ago I had a local flooring company come out and discuss some options. His suggestion was a complete removal and full recast of their brindle flakes to give me the best chance at long term color stability. After sleeping on his nearly $4k estimate for a few days, I concluded that it wasn't worth the headache to try epoxy again. He was willing to enhance his lifetime guarantee to include specific language around coloring but my confidence in the long term stability of his company made that less attractive.

At this point, I reached back out to Armorpoxy to ask for advice. Their initial advice was to sand and recoat. Okay, sounds simple until you understand that they're talking about nearly $2k (retail) in materials. They did offer a slight discount but not substantial given my disappointment with their product. I couldn't justify that in addition to the good amount of cash that I outlay ed three years ago. Their warranty doesn't cover discoloration or fade unfortunately.

I detail cars part-time from the main garage and take pride in the appearance of the space. I typically do about two or three cars a month but they're longer 20+ hour details at higher price points and want my space to be reflective of the service I'm providing. My main hesitation in regards to plastic tiles was the cleaning. Epoxy is fantastic in that regards. I can hose it down and squeegee the floor in short order. For this reason, I reached out to a handful of detailers to ask the probing questions and not one person said it was a problem. Apart from maybe pulling the floor out once a year, everyone has been happy with their tile choice. This was great news as compounding dust can get annoying.

Okay, at this point I narrowed it down to RaceDeck or Swisstrax. I ordered several tiles from each and was really surprised how much better I liked the Swisstrax. I've read countless articles and watched too many videos to list but it's really true. The thickness and larger size really makes the Swisstrax feel so much better. I understand RaceDeck offers an XL version but I didn't order those to compare. I contacted Swisstrax through their website and received very helpful and quick responses from Danny V, a sales manager. I wasn't able to input my exact dimensions into their floor designer but he did the rendering on my behalf and after a few iterations I was happy with the color choice and design. While there are plenty of retailers of Swisstrax it makes the most sense to deal with them directly.

The order was placed and 16 boxes, nearly 600lbs of plastic, was on its way from CA to NC. The install went very smoothly, mainly having my wife to hand me tiles as she did the walking around to ensure everything snapped together as intended. I was amazed at how few cuts I actually had to make. I don't own a table saw, nor did I want to purchase a large tool for this one time (hopefully) exercise. I opted to use a jigsaw with no-melt blades. I texture of the stem walls aided with my not so perfect cuts very well actually and the end result is absolutely fantastic. A nice uniform appearance.

Time will tell if Swisstrax is ideal for my detailing needs. My next client is mid May but will be maintaining our cars on the tiles in the interim. I'm expecting to snap a couple tiles but have about 20 left over. I still have cabinets and things to move back in the garage but will update as things progress over the coming weeks.

TL;DR - Armorpoxy discolored and faded after three years so covered in Swisstrax. Armorpoxy's warranty does not cover discoloration.

My advice is really think about how you're going to use the space and your expectations.

Finished Product - Pearl Silver & Pearl Gray
16 by bishop_larry, on Flickr

Finished Product - garage still empty at this point
15 by bishop_larry, on Flickr

14 by bishop_larry, on Flickr

Current State of the Armorpoxy
7 by bishop_larry, on Flickr
6 by bishop_larry, on Flickr
8 by bishop_larry, on Flickr

11 by bishop_larry, on Flickr

During the initial install in 2016 (still drying)
18 by bishop_larry, on Flickr

The single bay garage during install. This flooring still looks very good, again I'm attributing the sun exposure and higher use to the degradation in the main garage.
17 by bishop_larry, on Flickr

side by bishop_larry, on Flickr

 

[kngelv]

That looks really nice.

James

 

[44Dan44]

I ordered Swisstrax through Danny as well. Looks great. I too am covering up a failed epoxy floor https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419307 I think that’s a very good final piece of advice you offered; know what you want, how you will use it and what you expect from your flooring, in the Midwest with snow and road salt I couldn’t reconcile any other choice for my needs. Sorry you had the extra expense but the end result is fantastic.

 

[Shea]

The SwissTrax looks great! The self-draining design is popular for detail guys who like to wash in the garage. You should enjoy your floor for many years to come.

In regards to ArmorPoxy, it's important to know that there is not an epoxy that will not amber if it is exposed to a lot of U.V. light. It does not matter the manufacturer. If you would have chosen a similar system by brand B instead of brand C, you would have had the same results. Unless a full color flake option is chosen (color flakes are U.V. stable) with a polyurethane or polyurea clear coat, it will amber when exposed to strong U.V. light over a period of time.

For general information for others who may read this - what is typically recommended if U.V. light is going to be an issue is to apply one coat of the same color polyurethane over the color epoxy base coat and then lightly broadcast the flakes onto that. The polyurethane will not amber. Of course another option is a polyurea or polyaspartic system.

 

[nc.detail]

The SwissTrax looks great! The self-draining design is popular for detail guys who like to wash in the garage. You should enjoy your floor for many years to come.

In regards to ArmorPoxy, it's important to know that there is not an epoxy that will not amber if it is exposed to a lot of U.V. light. It does not matter the manufacturer. If you would have chosen a similar system by brand B instead of brand C, you would have had the same results. Unless a full color flake option is chosen (color flakes are U.V. stable) with a polyurethane or polyurea clear coat, it will amber when exposed to strong U.V. light over a period of time.

For general information for others who may read this - what is typically recommended if U.V. light is going to be an issue is to apply one coat of the same color polyurethane over the color epoxy base coat and then lightly broadcast the flakes onto that. The polyurethane will not amber. Of course another option is a polyurea or polyaspartic system.

I hear you, but I don't think my space gets an abnormal amount of light. The garage is closed 5 days a week and the floor receives zero sun. It's only been three years and used on the weekends. Beyond that, I was upsold on their 'military' grade topcoat for the extra UV protection. But yes, hindsight is full broadcast.

Topcoat language and what was suggested by their sales folks -
'Ultra high performance topcoat gives your floor the utmost protection against ultra-violet rays (sun) and damage from chemicals, oils, acids etc'

Either way, my real goal is to show the long term effects of what I consider 'normal' use during a 'relatively' short amount of time.

I don't think Swisstrax is perfect either, but it's worth a gamble at this point. I've already had the front section lift when entering at an angle. Our house is L-shaped w/ this garage being on the side. I'm prepared to beat and replace the tiles as needed. I'm expecting to break a few.

In the end, it's been a learning experience and I'll learn how to use the tiles for my needs.

 

[Slowgsr]

Looks as if my solvent based rustoleum w/clear is holding up well compared to yours. Been 5 years and counting....

 

[nc.detail]

Looks as if my solvent based rustoleum w/clear is holding up well compared to yours. Been 5 years and counting....

 

[PCMusicGuy]

In your research on what direction to go with your new floor, did you ever consider porcelain tile?

 

[nc.detail]

In your research on what direction to go with your new floor, did you ever consider porcelain tile?

I didn't, mainly for cost reasons.

 

[FJ4FUN]

Yes ALL epoxies will color shift over time with exposure to U.V. light. That being said, some manufacturers/formulations are definitely more sensitive than others. For instance, within the Wolverine Coatings' product line our LiquaTile 1143 has a higher U.V. resistance than our LiquaTile 1184 and the 1184 is no slouch in this regard. I've personally witnessed 1184 installations well beyond 7 years old that still look fantastic after normal U.V. exposure. Yes, I'm sure that they have ambered but nothing that would be considered as objectionable.

The only exception to this has been our pure white 1184. We now recommend two coats of our EnduraShield 2254 with the 1st coat being tinted just as Shea noted.

 

[nc.detail]

Yes ALL epoxies will color shift over time with exposure to U.V. light. That being said, some manufacturers/formulations are definitely more sensitive than others. For instance, within the Wolverine Coatings' product line our LiquaTile 1143 has a higher U.V. resistance than our LiquaTile 1184 and the 1184 is no slouch in this regard. I've personally witnessed 1184 installations well beyond 7 years old that still look fantastic after normal U.V. exposure. Yes, I'm sure that they have ambered but nothing that would be considered as objectionable.

The only exception to this has been our pure white 1184. We now recommend two coats of our EnduraShield 2254 with the 1st coat being tinted just as Shea noted.

 

[nc.detail]

It's been almost a week with the Swisstrax and I've already broken or bent 10 tiles. The transition lip is .5" and really causing issues pulling cars into the garage. The tires are pushing the tiles as opposed to rolling on top.

All of these dimensions were discussed with Swisstrax prior to ordering but I the old 'shouldn't be a problem' phrase is causing issues now. Swisstrax's latest suggestion is to move all the tiles back 'a couple inches' from the transition. Little bit of a chore as everything was cut per their recommendations.

I bought a .5" rubber transition piece to mitigate the initial bump in but that hasn't helped much. I then removed the initial plastic Swisstrax ramp pieces to give a full 2.5" of backspacing from the transition to the start of the tiles. The combo of the ramp and gap is doing much better but still managed to break 2 more tiles last night. Not exactly a clean look w/ out the transition pieces though.

I'm not having any issues once the vehicles are inside and I've done full wheel turns at a standstill. I've been using my wife's heavy suv as the test victim.

Next up are taller 1" rubber ramps that'll be here Monday.

Starting to miss my yellow epoxy....



tiles1 by bishop_larry, on Flickr


edge1 by bishop_larry, on Flickr


mas1 by bishop_larry, on Flickr

 

[CombatNinja]

Damn, if you didn't have bad luck with flooring, you wouldn't have any luck at all. sorry to hear about your latest issue. So your garage slab is lower than the apron outside? I am having trouble understanding how that is causing an issue. Hope you get it sorted out.

 

[Jason B]

Looks like you have A LOT of light in your garage from windows with full sun? I guess that's what made it YELLOW?

 

[Shea]

Where is the SwissTrax ramp located in reference to the edge of the 1" step-up from your driveway to the garage floor?

Never mind, I believe I see it now at the bottom of the picture with the straight edge and ruler. The 1" step-up onto the garage floor plus the tile make for a total elevation change of 1.75". That is a big change for such a short distance with the ramp pushed up against the edge.

Think about how a tire works. The bottom of the tread is actually flat and conforms somewhat to the tall edge as it encounters it. When pushed hard against the transition, the leading edge of the the tire is most likely pushing hard against the tile ramp instead of rolling right up on top. I think SwissTrax had the best advice to move the floor back a couple of inches.

Hopefully the 1" rubber ramp will work since it will be the same height as the garage floor.

 

[nc.detail]

Damn, if you didn't have bad luck with flooring, you wouldn't have any luck at all. sorry to hear about your latest issue. So your garage slab is lower than the apron outside? I am having trouble understanding how that is causing an issue. Hope you get it sorted out.

Yeah, it's been an interesting week but making progress. Swisstrax folks have been very helpful and have been shipping replacement tiles quickly.

There is garage pad sits .5" higher than the driveway, they do this to prevent rain from entering the garage if it makes it past the garage door.

Add the .5" and the .75" height of the tiles and now we have a decent bump for car tires to overcome, even with the Swisstrax edge pieces. For this reason, the tires are simply pushing on the tiles as opposed to rolling on top. The pushing is causing the tiles to flex and break unfortunately.

I just wanted to share my experience because I found little chatter about garage transitions and I thought there were a common thing

 

[Jason B]

I did VCT, which is pretty thin and got lucky with perfect transition and same thickness:

 

[nc.detail]

Looks like you have A LOT of light in your garage from windows with full sun? I guess that's what made it YELLOW?

There are 3 side windows w/ full curtains that are almost always closed. There are glass windows on the upper part of the garage door. I had 5% tint on those but removed it last winter.

Our house is L-shaped and faces eastward which puts sunlight on the house later morning. That said, the garage door is closed all week and only used on weekends so I wouldn't call it an extraordinary amount of light

 

[nc.detail]

Where is the SwissTrax ramp located in reference to the edge of the 1" step-up from your driveway to the garage floor?

Never mind, I believe I see it now at the bottom of the picture with the straight edge and ruler. The 1" step-up onto the garage floor plus the tile make for a total elevation change of 1.75". That is a big change for such a short distance with the ramp pushed up against the edge.

Think about how a tire works. The bottom of the tread is actually flat and conforms somewhat to the tall edge as it encounters it. When pushed hard against the transition, the leading edge of the the tire is most likely pushing hard against the tile ramp instead of rolling right up on top. I think SwissTrax had the best advice to move the floor back a couple of inches.

Hopefully the 1" rubber ramp will work since it will be the same height as the garage floor.

Bad angle from the picture. The transition lip is .5"

The advice is great but all the cuts have already been at this point. We discussed the .5" thoroughly before the purchase so it wasn't a surprise. The Swisstrax team has been very helpful and describes this as a 'very uncommon' issue

Either way, we're working through the challenges as they come up.

 

[kngelv]

There is garage pad sits .5" higher than the driveway, they do this to prevent rain from entering the garage if it makes it past the garage door.

Is this a North Carolina thing? Any house I have had here in Michigan has a garage floor that slopes toward the door and then blends to the driveway that is sloped away from the door. It is a nice smooth transition at the threshold with no lip at all.

James

 

[nc.detail]

Is this a North Carolina thing? Any house I have had here in Michigan has a garage floor that slopes toward the door and then blends to the driveway that is sloped away from the door. It is a nice smooth transition at the threshold with no lip at all.

James

Hi James - I'm not sure but our house in Maryland also had a similar transition height for the water stop. I thought it was normal

 

[CombatNinja]

I am in NC and I do not have a stepped lip at the entry of my garage. But my place was built in 1996 and some of the newer homes I have been in do have that transition. But I have a nice 18" overhang over the doors and the driveway slopes away from the garage so it would serve no purpose anyway. One thing hat does amaze me around here is how many homes are built where the driveway slopes down toward the garage. Every time it rains, there is a giant puddle right at the garage doors. Couple that with the fact that many of the homes have no gutters and you have a water management nightmare. It is not like North Carolina is in the desert southwest where it rains twice a year or something.
Anyway, back to your problem, have you looked into the possibility of some kind of metal transition ramp that you could maybe anchor into the concrete to ease that transition up onto the garage slab? That coupled with the Swisstrax transition ramps might go a long way toward solving your problem. I don't even know if they make or sell such a thing but it is an idea.

 

[nc.detail]

I am in NC and I do not have a stepped lip at the entry of my garage. But my place was built in 1996 and some of the newer homes I have been in do have that transition. But I have a nice 18" overhang over the doors and the driveway slopes away from the garage so it would serve no purpose anyway. One thing hat does amaze me around here is how many homes are built where the driveway slopes down toward the garage. Every time it rains, there is a giant puddle right at the garage doors. Couple that with the fact that many of the homes have no gutters and you have a water management nightmare. It is not like North Carolina is in the desert southwest where it rains twice a year or something.
Anyway, back to your problem, have you looked into the possibility of some kind of metal transition ramp that you could maybe anchor into the concrete to ease that transition up onto the garage slab? That coupled with the Swisstrax transition ramps might go a long way toward solving your problem. I don't even know if they make or sell such a thing but it is an idea.

Thanks for sharing! Our house was built in 2016 and sits on a high pad so drainage hasn't been a problem. To your point, there is a product called tread-ware - https://www.tread-ware.com/

Swisstrax only has one black one in stock but is expecting more later this month. That's my last resort plan as it involves drilling holes into the concrete to secure them. They do have the stainless in stock and could be painted with bedliner too.

Fortunately, the 1" rubber ramps paired with the 2.5" setback is working. I'm working on a q7 next weekend and will be curious how it handles that but so far the Levante has been a good subject to test durability.

I am going to try adding back the edge pieces as it's a cleaner look for the sake of science. I realize I could cut all the tiles (again) and shift the entire floor back but not in the mood for that as I deposits for clients through mid-June.

I will say that since posting my broken tiles on IG, four folks have reached out with similar problems. These were the same folks that I was talking functionality stories prior to purchase and they never mentioned a thing. Funny how it's showing it's face now

 

[Shea]

I should have remembered Tread-ware. We did an article about them a few years back. It's actually a pretty cool product.

 

[nc.detail]

I should have remembered Tread-ware. We did an article about them a few years back. It's actually a pretty cool product.

Yup! I've read it a few times

 

[estcstm3]

Like most i am torn on what type of flooring to put down too. I also love detailing and the Matt Mooreman pull (OG Garage) is very strong, but have always loved the look of epoxy and the "sweepability" to keep clean. Couple questions.

1. Outside of looks do you like the "vented" tiles as a better garage application thats used for detailing?
2. Do they click when you step on them (noisey)?
3. Can you put a jackstands and jacks on them? I at a minimum change my own oil and use jackstands
4. are they comfortable under a barefoot?

Overall do you still like them?

Thanks!

 

[nc.detail]

Like most i am torn on what type of flooring to put down too. I also love detailing and the Matt Mooreman pull (OG Garage) is very strong, but have always loved the look of epoxy and the "sweepability" to keep clean. Couple questions.

1. Outside of looks do you like the "vented" tiles as a better garage application thats used for detailing?
2. Do they click when you step on them (noisey)?
3. Can you put a jackstands and jacks on them? I at a minimum change my own oil and use jackstands
4. are they comfortable under a barefoot?

Overall do you still like them?




Thanks!

All very good questions. I've gone through three lighting configurations, two plumbing configurations, now two floors, and four electrical configurations and still trying to figure out what's best for my needs. All of this is trial and error, unfortunately. I'd be embarrassed to say how much I've put into this garage over the last three years and it's still not done.

The kranzle setup was done earlier this year. Added three hose bibs, 2 20A outlets, stainless sink & back splash.
pw by bishop_larry, on Flickr


That said, hindsight is 20/20. We built this house in 2016 and I was starting with two garages that were nicely appointed from the builder. Fully painted with baseboards. If I was starting over with fresh concrete I would have used Garage Experts and done their full brindle flake broadcast and be done with it. Given what I've learned, I believe they would've done a better job at the epoxy install than myself and would use a better product. Beyond that, I feel the customer service would be better than what I've received from Armorpoxy. Mainly because of the better warranty and the owner was very receptive to my concerns.

I don't value OG's input on Swisstrax mainly because of how he uses the space. I went with Swisstrax based on feedback from two local detailers and three friends who use their space in a similar fashion as myself. Cost ultimately drove my decision to Swisstrax as I couldn't stomach the incremental $2k to have my floor grinded and redone.

As a part-time 'premium' detailer, looks are important but I need functionality. I've been dealing with breaking or separating tiles since I first installed the tiles but Swisstrax has been absolutely fabulous to work with, for that I am grateful that I purchased from the source. The situation has been improving thanks to the ramps and I'll be shifting the entire floor back 2" to help further along with installing metal fasteners. Danny shipped out another lot of tiles and metal fasteners. Again, fantastic customer service.

Below are my opinions based on my short ownership period with Swisstrax -

[*]Outside of looks do you like the "vented" tiles as a better garage application thats used for detailing? Unsure, I'm doing my first paint correction on them this weekend. I'm anticipating the dusting will be a pain to clean.
[*]Do they click when you step on them (noisey)? - Only in a few areas but that is due to the unevenness in the concrete. Overall though, no noise is being generated.
[*]Can you put a jackstands and jacks on them? I at a minimum change my own oil and use jackstands. I haven't tested this aspect but I wouldn't put that much pressure on a single point. I had several tiles that I used under the kickstands on the motorcycles. The kickstands dented and tore the tiles. You can assume jack stands would cause the same damage. The jack would be a littler safer as the weight is more disbursed but I wouldn't try it.
[*]are they comfortable under a barefoot? I'd say semi-comfortable but my dogs won't walk on the tiles. No concerns here though.

I am optimistic with Swisstrax though. They look the part but am still working through some functionality issues. I'm working on a Q7 this weekend that weighs a couple hundred lbs more than our levante which will make for a good test.

 

[Risban]

Nice thread.... Have your issues been resolved? Any other observations since your last update? Thanks.

 

[kram71]

What a great post! It helped me in multiple ways. Your garage looks fantastic. The colors look great. How did you decide on them?

 

[nc.detail]

Here is the current layout -
far by Larry Bishop, on Flickr

The tiles are doing their job as intended. Cleaning has been a bit of a challenge though. The main drawback to the pearl silver tiles but I'm happy with my color choice. Understanding I detail a few cars a month, the floor gets beat on pretty good during the wash/decon process. Also, paint correction leaves dust and clear coat to be cleaned later too but again, nothing dramatic.

I do like the symmetrical look of the tiles and its easy to roll over w/ my little stool. I always struggled with the relief cuts, both from a visual sense and dirt trap.

I've been trying different methods to clean the tiles and found pressure washing, then scrubbing w/ a long bristled car wash brush and doing a final since to be the most effective. Obviously, this does nothing for all the junk that collects under the tiles but that will get addressed in the spring when I pull the floor out for a deep cleaning. Drying has been slower than I'd like as we dip into the later months here in North Carolina, I've found it takes several days for it to dry out completely. I'm running a air mover and would leave the garage door cracked during the workday. I've picked up a dehumidifier to hopefully help w/ the drying.

More importantly, I haven't broken any tiles since the initial install. I do have about half the floor pinned together with metal clips that swisstrax provided several months back.

 

[kram71]

It looks fantastic. What colors do you have? I see you mentioned silver. Blue? Black? Graphite?

 

[southernfriedcj]

Is this a North Carolina thing?

I do it on all houses. We use a 1.5" "lip" the is 10" or so wide. The garage slab slopes to the driveway and then there is the "umbrella".

 

[Atl_1M]

I have a 1.5" lip between the driveway and garage. Given your issues with only a 0.5" lip, I'm really concerned about ordering any sort of garage tiles now. I don't want to spend so much and end up with issues like you did, or have to see any of the garage floor if I went the route of a setback.

Anyone else have a big garage floor lip who has installed tiles that is willing to share feedback?

Decisions decisions.