Switch Panel

[gumbudah]

so ive got something like 13 switches that i want to put all in the same spot. Im wondering whats out there other than doing standard 6 or 7 gang boxes. Anyone have a switch panel with toggle or rocker switches or other???

 

[mike_s]

you can get switches that have three horizontal rockers that take up one switch space.

you can buy them at Lowes / Home Depot. Or online. Just Google "Triple Rocker Switch"
I've used them. they work fine.

 

[ForceFed70]

You could also look into 2-position switches depending on your application.

The problem with the double/tripple switches is that you can easily run out of room in your box as the wiring and wirenuts end up taking so much room.

 

[cowboyjosh]

There really isnt anything good besides the stacked switches mentioned above. One thing to watch is box fill if you go with stacked switches. Lots of wires in a small *** box. Might be better off with a couple 4 or 5 gang boxes with a regular toggle for each load your switching to keep it to code.

 

[Provincial]

If you have the wall depth, use box extensions to add room (cubic inches) inside the switch boxes. This will give you more room for the wires and nuts. Code lets you put more wire and nuts in the box than I like. I prefer lots of room in there. I use "deep" boxes all the time, and add extensions to them, too.

 

[malibu101]

If you have the wall depth, use box extensions to add room (cubic inches) inside the switch boxes. This will give you more room for the wires and nuts. Code lets you put more wire and nuts in the box than I like. I prefer lots of room in there. I use "deep" boxes all the time, and add extensions to them, too.

Could you please post a link showing the box extensions you mentioned?
If it is a 2x4 wall you can only put a 3 1/2" deep box of course. Where do the extensions go? How do they fit in?
Are you speaking of plastic or metal boxes?

I am interested in what you're talking about. Thanks for any info on them.

 

[DoyleDee]

If you wanted them all in the same spot- you might want to get a lighting controller.
something like http://www.synergylightingcontrols.com/family1.aspx?family=spak
... I'm not sure of the cost, and I'm sure there are others availiable, but I have dealt with a spak controller. You can mount the push button switches (low voltage-cat5) anywhere you wish.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

This is an insane number of switches to try to mount in one place. Is this a shop or garage?

You could use 5 gang boxes, but even this will require a lot of work getting wires in and out and getting switches in.

What exactly are you trying to do with these switches. Possibly of all the brains on this board, someone might be thinking out of the box and have a better way.

Charles

 

[Provincial]

Here is an example of a box extension. I copied it from the Home Depot site. This one is for the octogon style box, but all metal box designs have extensions available. There are also "deep" boxes, which are an inch or so deeper than standard ones. I like them because I don't have to cram the wires in such a tight space.

I believe that box extensions are available for plastic boxes, too.

As Malibu 101 noted, your wall thickness will sometimes limit the depth of the box, unless you surface mount it.

If mounting flush with the wall surface, the boxes will need a "mud ring" to support the switches. These are available in 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" to match your drywall (or plywood, etc.) thickness. They add that much depth to the box.

 

[malibu101]

Ahhh, surafce mounted boxes. Yes, I know exactly what you mean now.

And like you said in the last paragraph. Using a deep 4" square box with a mud/plaster ring has its benifits too.

 

[Aceman]

If I were doing it, I'd use four 4 gang boxes. 4gang plates are easy to find, and putting only 4 switches in each box will still keep them fairly clean and not a jumble of wires. In the 4th box use three toggle blanks in the switchcover to fill the unused openings.

Be sure to run your wiring into the box where the switch for that part of the circuit will be installed. You don't want wiring running from the right hand side of the box to the switch on the lefthand side. That'll just turn into a cluster...

If this is a Romex job, look into stackers for strapping the Romex. With that many switch legs, you WILL run out of room to staple on the side of the stud. Even better is if you can mount these boxes in more than one stud bay.

 

[gumbudah]

Wow, i been looking into this and man theres a lot to figure out! First, I'm not quite sure how many cicuits i need yet. need to keep figuring on that.
I found some pass & seymour switches that I really like at menards:
http://www.techmall.com/v/vspfiles/photos/35670-1.jpg

The thing is, for the quad switch, that'd be a minimum of 5 14awg romexs into the box for one switch, that's 20 cu in for conductors, 4 cu in for device, 2 cu in for grounds, total of 26 cubic inches for one switch bay!!! So the moral of the story is I need a lot of box space in order to stuff all these wires in. I found a mfg that makes extra big/extra deep boxes, they looks like some of their solutions will work, depending on exactly how many switches/lines I run into a given box. Check em out:
http://www.garvinindustries.com/Electrical-Junction-Boxes

So i think all of this will work out.

I am installing an ELK M1 gold security and home automation system as well. It will have lighting capabilities, the prollem there is that I plan to use insteon to control the lighting. Their switches are about $50 each and I'm too cheap to spring that much cash for 13 lighting circuits in the garage!! and theres only one switched circuit per switch bay... Anyone know of a cheaper brand than insteon?

 

[mrb]

what about making up a switch panel that in turn controls a bunch of relays to switch your lights? I know a place that has 25 amp relays really cheap, ill post a link as soon as i find it.

 

[Provincial]

If you use relays, be shure to use "latching" relays. They don't need current to keep the relay points either open or closed. Think of them as a switch that is moved by a momentary current through a coil. They use two coils, one for ON and one for OFF. There are three wires needed, common (usually 24V AC or DC), Open, and Close. Your control switch is a momentary rocker switch that closes the desired circuit. The user controls the contact time by holding the rocker in the desired position for the recommended period, usually one-half to one second.

One nice thing is that you can limit the 120V wiring to the lights themselves and only run the three 24V wires (think doorbell wire) to the switches. The 24V comes from a transformer (or DC power supply) that can be located in a convienent place.

You will have a considerable cost in relays, but some of that is offset by savings in wire and labor. I you can control the lights in banks, you can cut down on the number on relays needed.

 

[dittle fart around]

Use a wiring trough. This one is 4 inches deep 4 inches tall and 24 inches long. Mount toggle switches to the cover. Surface mount the trough and knock out the back for incoming wiring.
Plus you can put your coffee cup on top.
Here's a link to one.

View media item 12606

 

[gumbudah]

mrb I'd thought about controlling off of relays, but didnt much pursue due to typical cost of relays. If you have link yes please post or message!!!

 

[gumbudah]

If I do go with quad switches in order to maintain the fill volume, I was thinking maybe to mount the switch box, then mount a box a few feet away with a conduit inbetween. My thought was to run the romex to the first box, strip the outer jacket, make all of the neutral connections, then run only the hots to the switch box, i'm thinking it'd cut the number of conductors in half allowing me to use a smaller box. I think it'd all be legal other than the notion that I have a hot leg running in conduit without the neutral. For some reason I'm thinking theres something in the NEC about having to run the netural and hot together. ... anybody know if this'd be legal?

 

[BigJohn20]

gumbudah,

It completely depends on the code cycle you're on. In the 2011 NEC, you basically need a neutral at every switch point. Anything before that, you don't have to bring the neutral to the switch.

From ECM Web:

16. 404.2(C) Switches Controlling Lighting
A new rule will require a neutral conductor at nearly every switch point.

404.2 Switch Connections.

(C) Switches Controlling Lighting. Switches controlling line-to-neutral lighting loads must have a neutral provided at the switch location.

Ex.: The neutral conductor isn’t required at the switch location if:

(1) The conductors for switches enter the device box through a raceway that has sufficient cross-sectional area to accommodate a neutral conductor. (click here to see Fig. 16)

(2) Cable assemblies for switches enter the box through a framing cavity that’s open at the top or bottom on the same floor level or through a wall, floor, or ceiling that’s unfinished on one side.

Note: The purpose of the neutral conductor is to complete a circuit path for electronic lighting control devices.

And in your case, since there is a raceway between the two locations, you wouldn't have to use a neutral at the switching location.

 

[gumbudah]

hmm bigjohn that's odd that they'd let you do it provided you have a raceway that's large enough but not put in stipulations that the box has to be large enough as well.

 

[BigJohn20]

hmm bigjohn that's odd that they'd let you do it provided you have a raceway that's large enough but not put in stipulations that the box has to be large enough as well.

From a practical standpoint, if you're already at the fill rate for the box or at the point where another CCC would put you over, there's no way in hell you're fitting in something like a dimmer or occupancy sensor that would require the neutral.

 

[atpalmer]

why do you have 13 switches?
If you put them all in one place how would somebody else know what each one does?

 

[gumbudah]

Hmm
1. Radio
2.lights
3. Lights
4. Lights
5.lights
6. Attic lights
7. Outside lights
8. Switched outlet for lig lamp
9. Upstairs light
10. Fan
11. Eave outlets for christmas lights
Can't remember others right now...
I plan to label them well

 

[mtne]

Wow. I've just about never seen a clean way to do that many switches ganged. If I were wanting something similar I'd likely use 4"sq deep boxes nippled together with 3/4" and group 8 of them two high and four across. That should take care of most of the box fill and organization issues. The 3/4" ******* wouldn't even have to be used much per se, but if there were circuit hots being shared it would be easy. If it's all romex, mount all the boxes spaced neatly on a piece of plywood and then mount that in the wall. And with that much romex place cross pieces above the boxes for supporting the wire.

 

[mrb]

Ok here's the place that has the cheap 120v coil 25 amp relays http://www.apexelectronic.com/omron-G4B-112T1-FD-US-RP-spst-120v-ac-coil-relay you could put these in deep 4S boxes (i have one switching a 2nd outdoor lighting circuit with the coil powered by the first lighting circuit which is switched by a timer) and make up a cool switch panel to control them. 120vac for control, use a 15a circuit for control and you dont need any power supply or transformer.

 

[arroberts]

Not the cheapest option, but clean looking

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?6295/360+Panel+System+120+Volt+AC

 

[I void warranties]

you need a map switch, http://www.yankodesign.com/2010/03/24/yellow-light-switch/

i have seen these a trade shows, soooo geeky cool.