Switch to natural gas?

[Hoops.]

With a new natural gas line being run in front of my house, I have the opportunity to ditch propane. Anyone here go through this? What can I expect to need done to switch over?

Currently I have a BTU load of 360k. This includes the furnace, boiler, water heater, range, and fireplace. It's fed by 1" copper tubing with crimped connections. There is 32' of 1" copper, but the longest run from the meter to the fireplace is 60' total. I was concerned about the copper tubing, but the gas company says its ok. All tubing is accessible in the basement.

Questions:
1. Do I need to request a 2 psi meter? Or is there a better alternative?
2. Can water heater's be converted? Or will my 6 year old 75 gallon powervent become useless to me

 

[jhelrey]

You can adjust by changing orifices. I've done it to dryers a number of times.

 

[yeldogt]

With the cost savings you will want to do this.

Normally the switch over is not a problem -- you may have to change out the WH as the codes have changed. My neighbor had to switch the WH - but everything else was a simple orifice change

 

[Kevin54]

You get better heat out of NG than you do with LP.

Most orifices will have to be swapped out on any heating piece of equipment.

 

[Highbeam]

Lucky guy! I wish they would run NG for us!

 

[CNGsaves]

Where are you located?? What is your propane cost per gallon?? Is gas company offering to put meter right next to house for free??

If you use lots of propane for heating, then switchover to NG likely would be pretty quick payback for your incurred expenses (ie new HWH, furnace orifice changes, plumbing, etc).

NG has settled lately to just under $4/Mcf and estimated to stay that low for many years. Propane almost always costs more than NG.

What's a good estimate of your annual propane cost??

As for meter, the NG regulated utility will determine that (most typical residential is 7 to 8" water column - - ie approx 1/2 psi). Your main worry should pipe size once beyond the meter . . . BIGGER is better with NG. Sounds like you're alright with 1" but not problem since you have open basement if a problem pops up later. What is at end of that 60' run??

 

[Hoops.]

I'm in WI. Last year I paid pre bought propane at $1.44 per gallon, but the year before it was closer to $1.85 per gallon. It's a pain dealing with propane companies and keeping an eye on them for ripping you off.

I'm actually the one whole got this whole ball rolling. I found out the existing main line ended about 1000' from my driveway. I called, got some quotes, talked to my two neighbors who are close, and after a bunch of time and 6+ months, the gas company agreed to extend the main line for free, as long as my two neighbors and I signed up. I have to pay around $900 to run a natural gas line 300' to my house. I'm sold on getting natural gas, now I just need to figure out what I all need done.

The meter itself I need to specify. After looking at charts online I am leaning towards new pipe and the standard .5 psi meter. A 30k BTU fireplace is at the end of the run which I don't use much. I wouldn't mind converting my grill to natural gas and running a line outside for that someday.

Anyone have a LP water heater converted to natural gas?

 

[CNGsaves]

Yeah if you're in WI, then natural gas is no-brainer. Lots and lots of NG in Wisconsin. Go for it.

If they're charging you $900 for that last 300 ft that's not too bad. I would still push them to put meter as close to house as possible as that sets precedent that NG line past the meter is regulated utility company problem to repair if any leaks occur. Homeowner would only be responsible AFTER the meter and into the house.

Check out what Kwik Trip is doing with natural gas at their convenience stores. They are building out public CNG pumps across the state.

 

[BillK]

Hoops,
I did the same thing about 10 years ago when they ran gas past the end of our street to some new houses. We really got a good deal. Three of us agreed to hook up and put in new gas furnaces and water heaters and the gas company ran all the lines up to and including the meters for nothing. We all had oil heat and electric hot water and the houses were about 20 years old at the time so the builders junk was due for replacement anyway I bet the switch cut my utility bills in half. The gas bill during the summer (hot water only) is rarely any more than $20 I dont think it has ever been much more than $100 during the winter.

As far as what you need for equipment, this is not the place to ask. The gas company will tell you all you need, they will probably have to approve it anyway.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you even remotely think you might want to have a NG fired generator, you need to size the pipe and meter for it NOW !

 

[rlitman]

You get better heat out of NG than you do with LP.

Huh? It is the other way around.

But yeah, NG is a big upgrade if it is available. $900 makes it well worth it. That $900 expense probably adds 5-10x that cost to the value of your house, not to mention the savings and convenience. NG also burns cleaner, but that's not generally a big issue, because LP is already very clean burning (NG has less carbon, that's all).

 

[CNGsaves]

I'm in WI. Last year I paid pre bought propane at $1.44 per gallon, but the year before it was closer to $1.85 per gallon. It's a pain dealing with propane companies and keeping an eye on them for ripping you off.

I'm actually the one whole got this whole ball rolling. I found out the existing main line ended about 1000' from my driveway. I called, got some quotes, talked to my two neighbors who are close, and after a bunch of time and 6+ months, the gas company agreed to extend the main line for free, as long as my two neighbors and I signed up. I have to pay around $900 to run a natural gas line 300' to my house. I'm sold on getting natural gas, now I just need to figure out what I all need done.

The meter itself I need to specify. After looking at charts online I am leaning towards new pipe and the standard .5 psi meter. A 30k BTU fireplace is at the end of the run which I don't use much. I wouldn't mind converting my grill to natural gas and running a line outside for that someday.

Anyone have a LP water heater converted to natural gas?

I've got similar long run for natural gas to my fireplace ; actually mine is outdoor buried yellow plastic polyethlene that goes around corner of house from meter. If you have any buried pipe, make sure it's the yellow plastic polyethlene.

Like OldWizard notes above, be planning ahead for ANY future uses of NG that you might need . . . . ie NG generator, garage heater on NG, and in my case a NG compressor to fuel my bi-fuel car !!

If regulated natural gas company will give you the 2 psi meter and then immediately after put on another regulator to drop pressure down to .5 psi, that would give you best flexibility for the future. Most gas co's are reluctant to go beyond .5 psi meter for residential. Fellow cng enthusiast in Alaska kept starving his furnace of NG when his home CNG compressor was running that gas company agreed to upgrade his meter to 2 psi. Thus, he runs 2 psi to the Fuelmaker (cng compressor) while rest of his house is after a regulator that restricts back to .5 psi.

 

[malibu101]

Huh? It is the other way around.

I agree.

The below stats stolen from- http://www.propane101.com/propanevsnaturalgas.htm

■100,000 BTU/hr furnace will use about 97 cubic feet of natural gas (100,000 ÷ 1,030 = 97.1) in one hour
■100,000 BTU/hr furnace will use about 40 cubic feet of propane (100,000 ÷ 2516 = 39.7) in one hour

 

[Kevin54]

Huh? It is the other way around.

But yeah, NG is a big upgrade if it is available. $900 makes it well worth it. That $900 expense probably adds 5-10x that cost to the value of your house, not to mention the savings and convenience. NG also burns cleaner, but that's not generally a big issue, because LP is already very clean burning (NG has less carbon, that's all).

You're right, I had it turned around. I met to say LP has more heat than NG. Also LP has more moisture to it.

NG would be a nice convenience because it is always there vs. LP which has to be ordered every so often, plus you wouldn't have the large tank, but that convenience comes with a price. In my parents case, when it was winter, they couldn't figure out why their gas bill was so high. The colder it got, the higher the furnace got turned up. It was nothing for their house to be 80 inside.

 

[Hoops.]

Update: I found out my Bradford water heater can be converted. Pricey for a conversion kit, but it's significantly less than a new water heater or an indirect tank water heater off my boiler.

I plan on going with .5 psi service and upgrading my currect plumbing. I'd like to add a gas grill in the future, but that's it. I do plan on building a 32x40 storage shed/garage this year, but heating, if any down the road, will be done by wood.

 

[Teken]

As the oldwizard01 says, plan for the future. Make sure that pipe can support a generator should it be on the road map.

Plan now, or pay lots later . . .

Teken . . .

 

[rlitman]

Update: I found out my Bradford water heater can be converted. Pricey for a conversion kit, but it's significantly less than a new water heater or an indirect tank water heater off my boiler.

I plan on going with .5 psi service and upgrading my current plumbing.

Excellent choice, and good move.

 

[koditten]

Is the plumbing in the house copper as well? Might have to have that switched to black iron. Codes very.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Is the plumbing in the house copper as well? Might have to have that switched to black iron. Codes very.

Copper is acceptable for natural gas in some areas, I have it in my basement.

The original poster did mention in his first post that the gas company told him the copper was okay.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

A couple of things come to mind.

The copper question is a big issue, and the conclusion "ask the gas company" is always the right answer. Some gas companies do not allow it due to concerns with sulphides in the gas stream that could lead to corrosion of copper.

The water heater can be converted. The manufacturer may prohibit it though. It's a sticky situation. If it was mine, I'd convert it regardless...but I cannot recommend that you convert yours. Contacting the manufacturer to see if they have a conversion kit is the place to start.

The thing about propane vs. gas and which one is "hotter" still baffles me. A BTU is a BTU. If you burn 30,000 BTU's per hour of propane or 30,000 BTU's per hour of natural gas...it's the same "hotness". There is no "one is better than the other".

On price, around here natural is running about 70 cents per therm retail. That's in the ballpark of $0.63/gallon propane. In the 20 years plus I've been around it, natural gas has never been more expensive than propane to homeowners. There have been a couple of times (like 2000 for instance) when some large commercial users were able to negotiate propane prices lower than natural gas...but it was short-lived.

On the fireplace...if it uses ventless logs it probably CANNOT be converted. You'll need a new burner assembly.

One more thing you may need to look into is dealing with the switchover given how much fuel you have in your propane tank. Sometimes propane companies will buy it back, but often not. So....you'll need to time this to use all you can rather than give it away.

Good Luck!

Phil

 

[D.J.]

Are you guys considering the transportation charges the NG company hits you with in the summertime when you arn't using hardly any gas at all and then comparing it to the totals of the LP? Theat is the big ripoff I think NG has over LP. I think if you compare total billing over the entire year for both LP and NG, the NG would would be considerly more, but I could be wrong.

 

[rlitman]

The thing about propane vs. gas and which one is "hotter" still baffles me. A BTU is a BTU. If you burn 30,000 BTU's per hour of propane or 30,000 BTU's per hour of natural gas...it's the same "hotness". There is no "one is better than the other".

Yes a BTU is a BTU, but because the fuel/air ratios are different for NG and LP, and the chemistry is different (energy density), a 40,000 BTU/h LP burner may only put out 35,000 BTU when burning NG (ok, the drop isn't that exactly, but it illustrates the point).

What this means, is that the recovery rate of your water heater will change when you switch from LPG to NG. If the manufacturer intended the appliance to be used with either, the manual will show the difference in BTU output.

 

[rlitman]

Are you guys considering the transportation charges the NG company hits you with in the summertime when you arn't using hardly any gas at all and then comparing it to the totals of the LP? Theat is the big ripoff I think NG has over LP. I think if you compare total billing over the entire year for both LP and NG, the NG would would be considerly more, but I could be wrong.

I guess that depends on your utility. I pay around $5 a month for the meter. My delivery charges are proportional to the volume of gas used, so I count them with the cost per therm to calculate the real cost. This is the same as electricity.
They only separate out the delivery charges for ESCO purposes (if you purchase the gas or electric from an ESCO, you still pay the utility company for delivery).

 

[CNGsaves]

Are you guys considering the transportation charges the NG company hits you with in the summertime when you arn't using hardly any gas at all and then comparing it to the totals of the LP? That is the big ripoff I think NG has over LP. I think if you compare total billing over the entire year for both LP and NG, the NG would would be considerly more, but I could be wrong.

Most expensive part of NG bill for me is "base customer charge" which is gravy money that regulated gas company can charge just for sending a bill. Mine is $16 / mth and sometimes my summer NG bill is as low as $24 or $30 with NG HWH and NG furnace. Highest bill in winter might be $100 so I seriously doubt LPG could be anywhere near that for overall annual cost.

Some LPG companies have practices where they come out several times a year which costs customer more in the end. Best LPG price is buy it in bulk once a year at lowest cost.

 

[ratdoggy]

I was using propane at my old house for cooking and the drier. I don't remember the cost of the propane (and I had to use a certain amount or there were penalty charges) but I heated the house with heating oil and that cost pretty much $300 a month in the winter. I have a new house that is natural gas for heat,cooking, drier and a fireplace that costs me $65 on a budget plan so I'm guessing (and I realize it's not scientific) I'm WAY ahead with the gas.

 

[Hoops.]

A couple of things come to mind.

The copper question is a big issue, and the conclusion "ask the gas company" is always the right answer. Some gas companies do not allow it due to concerns with sulphides in the gas stream that could lead to corrosion of copper.

The water heater can be converted. The manufacturer may prohibit it though. It's a sticky situation. If it was mine, I'd convert it regardless...but I cannot recommend that you convert yours. Contacting the manufacturer to see if they have a conversion kit is the place to start.

The thing about propane vs. gas and which one is "hotter" still baffles me. A BTU is a BTU. If you burn 30,000 BTU's per hour of propane or 30,000 BTU's per hour of natural gas...it's the same "hotness". There is no "one is better than the other".

On price, around here natural is running about 70 cents per therm retail. That's in the ballpark of $0.63/gallon propane. In the 20 years plus I've been around it, natural gas has never been more expensive than propane to homeowners. There have been a couple of times (like 2000 for instance) when some large commercial users were able to negotiate propane prices lower than natural gas...but it was short-lived.

On the fireplace...if it uses ventless logs it probably CANNOT be converted. You'll need a new burner assembly.

One more thing you may need to look into is dealing with the switchover given how much fuel you have in your propane tank. Sometimes propane companies will buy it back, but often not. So....you'll need to time this to use all you can rather than give it away.

Good Luck!

Phil

According to my natural gas company, copper is ok.

I contacted Bradford-White, the manufacturer of my water heater, and they do sell a kit to convert it. Of course, the kit is $350 from them. I did find one place online that is selling it for $260. Seems crazy expensive, now I'm debating buying the kit and doing it myself, or calling in a plumber or hvac guy.

My propane tank is leased, so since I don't own the tank, I've checked and they will buy back the propane left in the tank when they pick it up. That said, it currently has a little less than 50% in it, so I'm good until winter.

WE Energies, the natural gas company, will be installing the meter up to my house. According to them, it is up to my "contractor" to hook the meter up to the house and turn it on. So I'm looking at:
1. Disconnecting the propane from the house
2. Run new plumbing in the house that accomodates my BTU load and natural gas.
3. Convert my furnace, water heater, and boiler
4. Hook the natural gas meter up to my house.

All of which I'd like done in the same day so I can have hot water every morning! Who is the best to have do this? HVAC contractor or plumber?

 

[CNGsaves]

According to my natural gas company, copper is ok.

I contacted Bradford-White, the manufacturer of my water heater, and they do sell a kit to convert it. Of course, the kit is $350 from them. I did find one place online that is selling it for $260. Seems crazy expensive, now I'm debating buying the kit and doing it myself, or calling in a plumber or hvac guy.

My propane tank is leased, so since I don't own the tank, I've checked and they will buy back the propane left in the tank when they pick it up. That said, it currently has a little less than 50% in it, so I'm good until winter.

WE Energies, the natural gas company, will be installing the meter up to my house. According to them, it is up to my "contractor" to hook the meter up to the house and turn it on. So I'm looking at:
1. Disconnecting the propane from the house
2. Run new plumbing in the house that accomodates my BTU load and natural gas.
3. Convert my furnace, water heater, and boiler
4. Hook the natural gas meter up to my house.

All of which I'd like done in the same day so I can have hot water every morning! Who is the best to have do this? HVAC contractor or plumber?

Earlier you indicated that several neighbors will be connecting to main gas line. What are they doing?? Which contractors/vendors are they using??

Lowest cost for you and your neighbors is GO TOGETHER and contract someone to do several houses at one time to get best rate (ie time and materials). Do all this during slowest time of year for HVAC contractors . . . . likely NOT now during hottest time when A/C systems are making HVAC guys big bucks. You'll need both a HVAC and plumber. With your Btu needs, make sure the NG pipe from meter into the house is VERY large (like 1 1/2" or 2") so that you don't starve all your appliances for NG.

You're in Wisconsin so you obviously have cold winters. IMHO late summer or early Fall is likely best time to switch everything over. Your dream of having it all done in one day might not be possible, especially if you want to minimize your costs (ie work a combo deal with neighbors). For sprinkler system install, me and 2 neighbors all did ours together and got lowest pricing - - all 3 houses were done in 2 days.

Go ahead and let WE Energies (regulated natural gas company) install the service entry for NG, along with meter next to your house, over the coming weeks so that it absolutely is installed BEFORE your HVAC/plumber vendors are coming to switch over appliances from LPG to NG.

Sell your propane back at either same price they charged you last time, or going rate (if higher) when they come pickup the leased LPG tank (see below as you might use some) - - obviously AFTER your NG is all hooked up and working.

Spending even $260 to save that old LPG hot water tank is wasteful. I'd put in brand new NG HWH in house and use the old LPG HWH in garage if you want hot water out there (ie assuming you have heated garage, then fill up 100 lb LPG bottle from your big house tank of LPG) - - or sell LPG HWH on CL. FYI: I can get Bradford White NG 40 gal tank for $330 at local wholesale supplier. Oklahoma also has great benefit for NG clothes dryer as there is $500 credit towards purchase as incentive from gas company!!

Good luck coordinating all the vendors and working with neighbors.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have a buddy who is a certified CNG nut ! He has 2 vehicles and fills them at home. He is paying less than $1.25 per gasoline gallon equivalent.

 

[brewchief]

Earlier you indicated that several neighbors will be connecting to main gas line. What are they doing?? Which contractors/vendors are they using??

Lowest cost for you and your neighbors is GO TOGETHER and contract someone to do several houses at one time to get best rate (ie time and materials). Do all this during slowest time of year for HVAC contractors . . . . likely NOT now during hottest time when A/C systems are making HVAC guys big bucks. You'll need both a HVAC and plumber. With your Btu needs, make sure the NG pipe from meter into the house is VERY large (like 1 1/2" or 2") so that you don't starve all your appliances for NG.

You're in Wisconsin so you obviously have cold winters. IMHO late summer or early Fall is likely best time to switch everything over. Your dream of having it all done in one day might not be possible, especially if you want to minimize your costs (ie work a combo deal with neighbors). For sprinkler system install, me and 2 neighbors all did ours together and got lowest pricing - - all 3 houses were done in 2 days.

Go ahead and let WE Energies (regulated natural gas company) install the service entry for NG, along with meter next to your house, over the coming weeks so that it absolutely is installed BEFORE your HVAC/plumber vendors are coming to switch over appliances from LPG to NG.

Sell your propane back at either same price they charged you last time, or going rate (if higher) when they come pickup the leased LPG tank (see below as you might use some) - - obviously AFTER your NG is all hooked up and working.

Spending even $260 to save that old LPG hot water tank is wasteful. I'd put in brand new NG HWH in house and use the old LPG HWH in garage if you want hot water out there (ie assuming you have heated garage, then fill up 100 lb LPG bottle from your big house tank of LPG) - - or sell LPG HWH on CL. FYI: I can get Bradford White NG 40 gal tank for $330 at local wholesale supplier. Oklahoma also has great benefit for NG clothes dryer as there is $500 credit towards purchase as incentive from gas company!!

Good luck coordinating all the vendors and working with neighbors.

As an HVAC guy I will say that we may give a slight price break if several neighbors all want work done but it won't be that much.

When we do a conversion we want the gas company to have the gas service and meter in place before we show up, often times we only have to do a few feet of gas pipe if the new meter and old propane regulator are close together.

The OP will not be replacing a 75 gal powervent water heater for cheap, heck I'd like to be able to buy 40 gal bradford whites for 330$, how currant is that price? My cost on a 40 gal is just under 400$ right now, that's within a few dollars from 5 different wholesalers including one or two that we do over 10k a month with. I would have a hard time converting a 6 year old water heater unless the local water conditions give a long average life.

If planned properly with a contractor who knows how to handle it a conversion like this should only leave you without heat or hot water for a few hours or most of a work day in the worst case.

 

[Hoops.]

As an HVAC guy I will say that we may give a slight price break if several neighbors all want work done but it won't be that much.

When we do a conversion we want the gas company to have the gas service and meter in place before we show up, often times we only have to do a few feet of gas pipe if the new meter and old propane regulator are close together.

The OP will not be replacing a 75 gal powervent water heater for cheap, heck I'd like to be able to buy 40 gal bradford whites for 330$, how currant is that price? My cost on a 40 gal is just under 400$ right now, that's within a few dollars from 5 different wholesalers including one or two that we do over 10k a month with. I would have a hard time converting a 6 year old water heater unless the local water conditions give a long average life.

If planned properly with a contractor who knows how to handle it a conversion like this should only leave you without heat or hot water for a few hours or most of a work day in the worst case.

You are definitely correct the 75 gallon powervent water heater is not cheap. They are $820 at Home Depot, who knows what another Bradford-White would be installed. I'm leaning towards just getting it converted and hopefully it lasts another 5-10 years. Although, I may be swayed into a indirect tank water heater for my boiler. Currently my boiler has two zones, for the basement and garage. Any idea what a ballpark cost would be to add an indirect tank into my current system? Boiler is a NTI, 100k BTU.

I have no idea why the 1st owner/builder didn't use a indirect tank vs water heater to begin with.

 

[rlitman]

Depends on what sort of indirect tank you want. I have a "50" gallon one made by Triangle Tube. The tank is stainless, and is supposed to last at least 30 years. One like that ran me around $800 for just the tank. Then you need the circulator, and something to control it, and you need to plumb it too.

If you plan on keeping your water heater for a while longer, I would suggest you take the opportunity to swap out the anode rod now (or at least inspect it).

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Most expensive part of NG bill for me is "base customer charge" which is gravy money that regulated gas company can charge just for sending a bill. Mine is $16 / mth and sometimes my summer NG bill is as low as $24 or $30 with NG HWH and NG furnace. Highest bill in winter might be $100 so I seriously doubt LPG could be anywhere near that for overall annual cost.

Some LPG companies have practices where they come out several times a year which costs customer more in the end. Best LPG price is buy it in bulk once a year at lowest cost.

Gravy Money?

No.

The customer charge covers a portion of the fixed cost the gas company has to maintain service to the property...the biggest components of which would be depreciation expense on the main and service line and personnel expense to maintain those facilities.

At my home, the summer gas bill runs about $50, but that includes my water heater, my gas clothes dryer, a gas range, oven, gas grill, and my gas light.

The minimum charge is $10. If you use even a modest amount of NG, you're going to save money over propane because the volumetric cost is about half. Also...a lot of people either lease tanks or get hit with minimum use penalties on propane that must also be considered.

Phil

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Yes a BTU is a BTU, but because the fuel/air ratios are different for NG and LP, and the chemistry is different (energy density), a 40,000 BTU/h LP burner may only put out 35,000 BTU when burning NG (ok, the drop isn't that exactly, but it illustrates the point).

What this means, is that the recovery rate of your water heater will change when you switch from LPG to NG. If the manufacturer intended the appliance to be used with either, the manual will show the difference in BTU output.

Interesting!

I checked out a State brochure, and I'll be darned if you aren't right! Now I understand.

Phil

 

[rlitman]

Yeah, you get the same thing with tri-fuel internal combustion engines too, where a 10kW gasoline generator may only put out 8kW on LP and 7kW on NG. The combustion temperatures are different, the energy density of the fuel/air mix is different, and the flame speed is different. Just like you get more power out of an engine when you add nitrous instead of air. . .

 

[EOC_Jason]

In Tomball, TX back in the 30's Exxon hit a big score so they negotiated with the town drilling rights within city limits in exchange for free water & natural gas for 90 years to the residents... People figured out how to make darn near everything run off NG... lol...

Recently (within the past 10-20 years) they were forced to charge just a *small* fee for the NG usage because of how big the town has become, still nothing like people would pay in other areas. But the residents went up in arms about it because they were so used to having it free for so long... lol...

 

[Kevin54]

Gravy Money?

No.

The customer charge covers a portion of the fixed cost the gas company has to maintain service to the property...the biggest components of which would be depreciation expense on the main and service line and personnel expense to maintain those facilities.

At my home, the summer gas bill runs about $50, but that includes my water heater, my gas clothes dryer, a gas range, oven, gas grill, and my gas light.

The minimum charge is $10. If you use even a modest amount of NG, you're going to save money over propane because the volumetric cost is about half. Also...a lot of people either lease tanks or get hit with minimum use penalties on propane that must also be considered.

Phil

Most expensive part of NG bill for me is "base customer charge" which is gravy money that regulated gas company can charge just for sending a bill. Mine is $16 / mth and sometimes my summer NG bill is as low as $24 or $30 with NG HWH and NG furnace. Highest bill in winter might be $100 so I seriously doubt LPG could be anywhere near that for overall annual cost.

Some LPG companies have practices where they come out several times a year which costs customer more in the end. Best LPG price is buy it in bulk once a year at lowest cost.

Man I wish I could get by with only purchasing it once a year. I just now went on Level Billing with the Propane company that took over for another that the owner passed away. When they took it over and the customers with it, my propane went from close to $2.70 down to $1.90. Hell of a difference. BUT.....with the propane usage we have, and the new company went back three years for Level Billing, it is now costing me $180/mo.

Along with that, we will be filled probably three times from November thru April.