Switching on Neutrals for lights

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

So I have a circa 1880's home and doing some further remodeling.

I have some wiring to do and have several lights that the circuits have the switch on the neutrals.
Makes it a PITA to figure out what wire is controlled by the switch, as a non contact meter is hot everywhere on the circuit.

question: should I rework this room to the "norm" of hot leg switched when I rewire. Or leave it as is??
Neighboring room / Bathroom is done the same. No there are no GFCI's in the bath, that room is down the list on being remodeled as it is a 1980's vintage remodel at the moment.

 

[CoogarXR]

If the walls are open, yeah, I'd do it right.

 

[mike93lx]

Absolutely. I would never leave old, nonstandard, and dangerous wiring when I have a chance to do it right.

 

[Shiftless]

I’ll make it 3-0 for making it right.

(My 1949 furnace had a nearby kill switch in a box where the hot and neutral were both switched by one lever. A double knife switch.). That’s gone now. Just a boring old fused click switch in a single gang box instead of the old Frankenstein or Electric chair style switch with exposed contacts.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Fair enough, not really a ton of work in this room as it currently has only the light switch and a ceiling mounted light.

The bathroom on the other hand has several things done this way. Likely I will wait to do that room when it is remodeled at a later date.

 

[Bert_]

This was the common way to wire a switch back in the first part of the last century. I'm not sure why but it's what they did.

Slightly more hazardous when you change a bulb since there is still power at the socket. It's not something I would worry much about

Chances are if you have a wall open you would be updating the wiring anyway. But I wouldn't go tearing open walls just to rewire lights.

 

[cybrdyke]

Are you sure it's the neutral? Or is it a white wire, that's actually a HOT wire because it's on a switch leg? These should be marked with a piece of black tape or magic marker, but that's not always done.
CD

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

100% as a few years ago I had to run a new wire to this light (fishing up closed wall) due to it not working.
Still when not working there was power at the light, but the switch did nothing. you can see the new yellow wire that I fished through in the picture.
I did find this when I opened the wall, obviously they had abandoned a switch and just nutted it in the wall cavity.
Makes me wonder what else I will find as things go on.

 

[Zeke]

You can find out which is the hot side vs. switched side by using a meter and an extension cord to a grounded outlet or at least a 2-prong receptacle wired correctly (that is the first thing to check). Simply meter each switch lug to the neutral or ground of the cord.

Use your head, be careful and don't do it if this doesn't seem right. I suggest pulling the switch out of the box some but it sounds like you already there.

^^^Holy smokes!

You might have a grounding connection there.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

All but the two wires to the switch will be replaced. Switch is in a brick wall and not easily accessed from below.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

rip it out. never switch a neutral unless of course the ungrounded conductor is switched at the same time

 

[sparky 1971]

I know of two switched neutrals in my own house, one of which I straightened out, the other is on the to do list and has been since about 2016. That leads me to a pair of Klein dykes that I blew up last summer on a customer house. Brand effing new, as in the very first cut blew them up. A guy wanted me to move a light in his basement back towards the switch so the wire would get longer. I turned off the switch, the light went off and I cut the romex. BOOM, out went the rest of the lights and my brand new dykes had a notch in the jaws. WTF!, I reset the breaker and pulled the switch. Hots were wire nutted together and the neutrals were switched. I went hot to ground. There are two morals to that story. 1) Always check for voltage before cutting romex, and 2) Have a good relationship with the counter guys at the supply house. I went in the next day to buy another pair of dykes laughing about what happened and the salesman that sold them to me the day before told me to just grab a new pair, no charge.

 

[alfredeneuman]

1) Always check for voltage before cutting romex

That's a good job for a non-contact voltage tester.

 

[sparky 1971]

That's a good job for a non-contact voltage tester.

Yessir. That's really one of the few places that they are useful. It was nothing more than laziness on my part as there was a NCVT in my bag not five feet away, and it might have even been in my shirt pocket.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

and 2) Have a good relationship with the counter guys at the supply house. I went in the next day to buy another pair of dykes laughing about what happened and the salesman that sold them to me the day before told me to just grab a new pair, no charge.

Wont be able to do that for much longer. Klein is getting tired of the warranty abuses. I just got word in one my facebook electrical groups that klein has changed their policy and you now have to go through them for part of the warranty process.

You have to call klein and describe the failure. then they decide if it merits a warranty replacement as a manufacturer defect. If they approve, they give you a unique number. you then take the tool and the number to the vendor to get a replacement...

 

[mike93lx]

Wont be able to do that for much longer. Klein is getting tired of the warranty abuses. I just got word in one my facebook electrical groups that klein has changed their policy and you now have to go through them for part of the warranty process.

You have to call klein and describe the failure. then they decide if it merits a warranty replacement as a manufacturer defect. If they approve, they give you a unique number. you then take the tool and the number to the vendor to get a replacement...

They may not have warrantied it. Could have chucked them in the trash and eaten the cost of a swap out

 

[wyliesdiesels]

True

 

[sparky 1971]

Wont be able to do that for much longer. Klein is getting tired of the warranty abuses. I just got word in one my facebook electrical groups that klein has changed their policy and you now have to go through them for part of the warranty process.

You have to call klein and describe the failure. then they decide if it merits a warranty replacement as a manufacturer defect. If they approve, they give you a unique number. you then take the tool and the number to the vendor to get a replacement...

They may not have warrantied it. Could have chucked them in the trash and eaten the cost of a swap out

Nothing was warrantied this time. I didn't turn the burned up pair in. In fact, they are sitting right inside the back door of my service van and I use them to cut short chunks of wire and/or flex when I'm making whips or pigtails.

Really the only things I've warrantied through the years are the Phillips and Robertson screwdrivers when the tips wear out. I bought a set of the then new magnetic nut drivers with the pass through hole and warranted the 3/8 about five times for the magnet falling out and getting lost. The current driver is also missing the magnet as is the 5/16 and 1/4 and maybe others, but I've given up all hope for those. I've seen others try to take back screwdrivers and pliers that were just beat to death and back. I would never do that, the warranty isn't for me being or doing something stupid, it's for an actual defect in the tools and if Klein is going to play that game I just might start using different drivers.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Next hurdle is there is a 1” or more thick piece of lumber in the lathe right where I drilled to mount the new “old” work ceiling box.

Making the ceiling 1.5” thick. Not going to work on a box with a maximum mounting depth of 7/8”.
I get frustrated and move onto the fan box I removed last week (see my other recent post). As the deep fan box I ordered showed up today. Low and behold there are some extra blocking along the floor / ceiling joist right where the box hole is and it only has 14” width to mount it. (Good for 16”-24”)

All this because the wife wanted a new light, old one worked fine.

Next step I think is access from the upstairs by removing a floor board.

I’m currently drinking a Budweiser.

 

[sparky 1971]

Next hurdle is there is a 1” or more thick piece of lumber in the lathe right where I drilled to mount the new “old” work ceiling box.


All this because the wife wanted a new light, old one worked fine.

Next step I think is access from the upstairs by removing a floor board.

I’m currently drinking a Budweiser.

Welcome to the club. I remodeled my kitchen last summer or the summer before. It all started because the wife wanted a new faucet for the kitchen sink and I told her to go pick one out.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

The deep fan box did work in the hall where the old work plastic box didn’t….. although it will need a 1/2” box extension to fill the hole depth completely. Had them in my hands at Menards and didn’t throw them in the cart two days ago. Idiot!

Time for another BUD

 

[dave*99]

I get frustrated and move onto the fan box I removed last week (see my other recent post). As the deep fan box I ordered showed up today. Low and behold there are some extra blocking along the floor / ceiling joist right where the box hole is and it only has 14” width to mount it. (Good for 16”-24”)

What am I missing? The usual space is 14.5" between joists. I expect your new fan brace would accommodate sizes below 16" to fit that.

 

[Zeke]

By 16”-24” I think they are calling out the joist spacing. I'll bet a donut it will collapse down to 14".

If not, I have cut the sliding legs.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Already moved past and plan to pull up a floorboard in the upstairs.
No Carpet just the original floor boards /planks, so not that difficult.
Touch up with some paint and done!

Tired of spending $$ on something that should have been done right when they rewired the house in the 90's.

 

[American Locomotive]

Another reason you should change it, is that modern LED bulbs and fixtures can sometimes glow very dimmly with a switched neutral. There is enough capacitive/inductive coupling that a small amount of current will flow through the neutral, even with the switch off. If you switch the hot, it fixes the issue.