T1-11 vs. Vinyl Siding

[burger]

Hey!

Help me decide which material to use on my new garage. I'm torn between T1-11 and vinyl siding.

T1-11 seems cheaper and will allow me to paint the garage to match the house.

Vinyl is maintanence free.

Anything else to consider?


Thanks,
Ed

 

[mulepackin]

I have known guys that have used T1-11 as the only exterior element. Providing sheathing and siding in one product. I'm not sure that is the way to go, as I would worry about air infiltraion without a double layer and exterior moisture barrier, but a possible option. Vinyl is known to "crawl" around the surface with temp. variations. Just other things to consider. Personally, my garage is sided in Colorlock siding, same as my house. Unfortunatly Masonite doesn't make it anymore.

 

[KingPerformance]

Stain it if you can, painting t1-11 looks terrible imho.

 

[fefarms]

I owned a house once with stained T1-11 on the lower floor, and knotty pine on the upper floor. Both were stained. The house had to be re-stained after just 5 years as the stain had faded. With its rough surface and milled-in grooves, the T1-11 took a lot of work to stain. A year later, I could see that it was going to need to be re-stained every 5 years essentially forever.

Later on, different house, I rebuilt an old shed and sided it with T1-11. I painted the T1-11 to match the house. The paint was a lot easier to apply than stain, and held up fine for 8 years with no signs of fading or peeling.

Just my experience with the stuff.

 

[atch]

don't know about the T1-11, but i built a house in '87 with all vinyl siding. i thought it would be the stuff! what i didn't know at the time is that every couple of years you have to power wash the north side to get the moss off. now i notice every house that has a green film on the north side and recognize it as having vinyl siding. i sold it after living there for 13 years and will never use vinyl again.

NOTE: this is in central missouri where we have some serious humidity at times.

 

[The Hot Rod Grille]

I used both! Vinyl siding on the exterior to match the house and T-1-11 on the interior walls instead of drywall. The T-1-11 was stained a light gray to simulate old barn siding and allows me to attach signs and shelves to the walls without wall anchors.

Jim Winter
The Hot Rod Grille Garage

 

[RonBou]

I have T-111 on my garage....and my house...and my shed all stained to match. Use a GOOD quality stain and it will last for 10 years UNLESS you have some adverse contions such as direct sunlight or heavy northern winds (and I do have the north winds). That side will probably have to be stained again in 7 years. Don't be afraid to put on a heavy first coat and a lighter second coat. Doing it right up front will determine how long the stain will last. My house has had the styained T-111 on it for about 24 years now and it still looks good.

 

[burger]

Thanks for the replies! Keep 'em coming.

For those who have installed T1-11, please explain to me the steps and materials it takes to get from bare studs to finished T1-11.

Specifically I'd like to know:

Where does the vapor barrier go?
Am I going to have moisture problems?
What I have to do for flashing?
How are the sheets joined at horizontal seams?



Thanks,
Ed

 

[burger]

Also, would those who have T1-11 houses and/or garages please post pictures! The web is worthless without pictures!


Thanks,
Ed

 

[wrigh003]

don't know about the T1-11, but i built a house in '87 with all vinyl siding. i thought it would be the stuff! what i didn't know at the time is that every couple of years you have to power wash the north side to get the moss off. now i notice every house that has a green film on the north side and recognize it as having vinyl siding. i sold it after living there for 13 years and will never use vinyl again.

NOTE: this is in central missouri where we have some serious humidity at times.

I had to do that to my neglected new-to-me house this past year. I was amazed at how much **** was built up. Dunno how long it had been, but a cheapo electric pressure washer and some simple green took care of it, and it looks like new now. Dunno if you could honestly say "maintenance free", but vinyl's pretty close. Just needs a wash now and again to rinse down the crust- Alabama humidity is a serious thing, too.

 

[Larz]

If you like the T1-11, go for it. In a few years if you want a change, put vinyl over it. My parents house was sided with T1-11. They were wanting something different as it was aging and getting harder to maintain for them. My brother and I installed new windows, wrapped the house, and put up all new vinyl. It was an easy job to put vinyl over the T1-11 siding.

Personally I like vinyl. My house is vinyl and brick. I have a small 12X24 building that is all vinyl. I'll wash it down a couple of times a year with a pressure washer and it looks like new.

 

[kbs2244]

First, learn the differance between moisture barier and vapor barrier. Mousture barrier, like tar paper or Tyvek goes on the wall under the sideing, outside the studs. So it is between the studs and the sideing. It's purpose is to keep liquid water like rain or snow from getting into the wall from the outside.
Vapor barrier, like poly or the Kraft on insulation bats, goes on the warm side of an insulated wall. It's purpose is to keep water vapor, humidity, from getting into the wall from the inside and condesing or freezing in the wall.
Moisture barrier is designed to let vapor go through it on purpose. Vapor wants to condense, so the idea is that if it does get into the wall a water barrier that lets vapor through is the way to go.
In short, tyvek under the outside siding and poly under the inside paneling.

 

[Junkman]

Had T1-11 for about 18 years, stained it 3 times, and then covered it with vinyl. The cost of the stain and having it applied was the reason for going with the vinyl. What I paid to stain it 3 times was almost as much as the cost of the vinyl, so it was a no brainer. Continue to stain or put on vinyl that is maintenance free. I don't see power washing as much maintenance, since the T1-11 needed to be power washed before it could be stained each time. You can stain over dirt, but it doesn't make sense to do so...

 

[burger]

Is there a significant cost savings with T1-11 as compared to vinyl siding? Seems to me link you'd save a bit as the T1-11 serves as both the sheathing and finish material. That being said, I've never priced out vinyl so I don't know the cost.


Thanks,
Ed

 

[burger]

First, learn the differance between moisture barier and vapor barrier. [...] In short, tyvek under the outside siding and poly under the inside paneling.

Thanks for explaining things. If you can't tell, I'm new at this.


Thanks,
Ed

 

[rodnok1]

T1-11 holds up good, but does require more maintance IMO. If exposed to splashback from no gutters/piles of snow paint peels and can rot out if not properly taken care of. I've stained and painted it both, paint seems to hold up better here in NC. I don't like vinyl usually, but if you're going to insulate/vapor barrier I would go with it. Vinyl does take some maintenance, but it's alot easier to clean. The biggest problem I've had with vinyl is crappy installations. It has a tendancy to end up in neighbors yard during hurricanes/tropical storms and high winds.

 

[oldgoat]

I've had vinyl on my house for almost 20 years now and have little trouble with it. I have had a couple of places that I needed to clean the mildew off, but it came off easy enough. When I had the garage built I had matching vinyl siding put on and the eaves and trim wrapped to make it maint. free. When I retire I want to have to spend a min amount of time on maint and I hate to paint.

 

[Sundowner]

Ideally, T-111 should be at least 6" above the ground line or the splash-back will make the bottoms of the boards rot out. you really should have more like 18"-24". a lot of houses in hostile climates use T-111. I've seen it last a long long time on beach houses and mountain cabins. keep in mind that I'm biased. I don't want to live in tupperware.

 

[Donzi4me]

Definately go with vinyl.... You want to spend your time working in the garage, not on it.

 

[1320stang]

Okay, are you talking about a wood T-111 siding? I would not reccomend it, unless you're staining, and then I still would not recommend it.

http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner.htm

James Hardie products make a cement based siding that won't rot, is bug, mildew and moss resistant, is flame resistant, won't take on water, impact resistant, doesn't expand and contract like vinyl or wood, it's guarenteed for 50 years. It comes in many styles, lap, shingle, T-111, stucco, smooth, planks trimwork, soffit material that both solid or perforated

JH siding vs. vinyl: http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/prodcomp/default.php

JH siding vs. wood:
http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/prodcomp/vhardboard.php

About the only bad thing I could say about the product is applying it, and even that's not bad. The instructions say that you should predrill the holes, but I had good luck just nailing it up by hand. Certain nail guns can also be used without drilling, but you'll need to set your pressure and nailing depth for you gun. I build a 12'x16' shed for some people and used the T-111 style James Hardie siding. I used construction adhesive on the studs in addition to nailing it up with some galv #8s. I caulked the joints and nail heads.

I never got any finished pictures I don't think. They were going to paint it themselves and then they got divorced and sold the house, I still don't think it's painted. It comes preprimed, if you put a high quality primer over that, then a high quality paint, you probably won't have to paint for a couple decades. I would even use this stuff (in the smooth texture) on the bottom 4' on the inside of a garage as it's moisture proof.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I'll throw a curve at you. I have cedar clapboard siding. Yes, It needs to be painted periodically. However, It doesn't get mildew, it will withstand heat, cold, humidity, high wind, and hail. Ever see vinyl siding after a hail storm? Will it last? The siding on my house is 100 years old. The siding on my garage is 15.

 

[1320stang]

But I think costs are part of the equation. The cement siding I've shown is cheaper than hardboard siding at the Lowe's and Home Depot in my town.

 

[burger]

1320- I'm very interested in the James Hardie stuff, but it all comes down to one factor -- cost. Do you remember approx. what it cost per square foot? Can it be applied directly over the studs or does it require sheathing? Anyway, I looked thru thier website and it would definitely be the most attractive option....

Thanks,
Ed

 

[twostory]

Re: Hardiplank

1320- I'm very interested in the James Hardie stuff, but it all comes down to one factor -- cost. Do you remember approx. what it cost per square foot? Can it be applied directly over the studs or does it require sheathing? Anyway, I looked thru thier website and it would definitely be the most attractive option....

Thanks,
Ed

Ed,

I have been installing Hardi Plank (lap siding) on my garage for a while now, so I maybe able to answer you questions.

1) I installed the 8.5inch x 12 ft lap siding. It has a 7.0 inch exposure, so each piece is 7 sq ft. Cost $6.29 each.

2) I use a roofing nail gun, shooting 1.5 inch roof nails. Nail it every 16 inches where the wall studs are. If you have to hand nail this stuff, I found you have to drill a hole first, but a nail gun will punch thru and not damage the siding.

3) I fully sheathed the building OSB, then tyveked over that. (see the picture) I did this to stengthen the building, and to give a flat surface for the hardi plank. NOTE: Hardi plank with show all your wall imperfections if the wall is not very flat.

4) I bought a special siding shear to cut the siding. It generates no dust, it you use a power saw, you must wear a dust mask the entire time.

5) I use the Malco clip to install the siding. Just get the first row straight and level, and the next 40 rows will be perfect with this tool.

My opinion, it is a lot of work, but it will never rot, burn, get eaten by termites and is has a 50 year warranty. You just need to paint it every 10 or so years. I am happy with it & would use it again. I only have 30 more pieces to installl to finish my building. I have put over 400 piece on my garage so far.

Robert

 

[1320stang]

For a garage, I'd sheath it with OSB as well. The shed I built was just a shed. You need to sheath with any other type of siding, so that's a wash, plus backing it up with OSB would just about making it impenetrable. I used to work at an architectural firm. We took a sample to see how much force it took to dent it or break it, not with any measurable equipment though. We soaked it in water for 3 days, then took it out and put it into the freezer overnight and tried the same tests and showed no difference.

I like brick or rock better, but if I were to ever side anything of my own, that product is the only thing I would use.

 

[burger]

Wow. Here's an eye opener. I just called up my local lumber yard to get prices for a sheets of OSB and T1-11.

T1-11 is $34.50 per sheet, which works out to $1.08/sqft.

The HardiPlank needs OSB, so that needs to be factored into the price. My luberyard quoted $6 per sheet, which works out to $0.19/sqft. The HardiPlank itself is $6.29 for a 7 sq-ft section, which works out to $0.90/sqft. Total that up, and you get $1.09/sqft.

I'm sure I'm missing some hidden costs with the HardiPlank though.

Ed

 

[1320stang]

Labor. 32 sq-ft of T-111 can be put up in about 2 minutes, but so can a sheet of Hardipanel.

What style of siding do you have on your house Ed?

 

[burger]

What style of siding do you have on your house Ed?

7" tall aluminum siding that I painted last summer with Sherwin Williams Super Paint.

I favor OSB for the following reasons:

- paint to match (I have enough leftover paint)
- most vinyl siding has shorter "planks" than my 7" aluminum siding
- cost


Now with this HardiPlank, I could match the 7" siding height, paint to match, and have a "maintenance free" product. If the cost is the same and the only difference is more labor, it's a no brainer. This is a hobby; what's the difference if I spend my hobby time building a garage or a car?


Thanks,
Ed

PS- What's a "Malco Clip", where do I buy one, and how much does it cost?
PPS- What shears do I use to cut? Can I use my metal shears?

 

[VintageGarage]

Vinyl siding is good at holding humidity against the building. It almost lasts forever and is like putting another vapor barrier directly against the outside of the building. T1-11 is a natural material and does not act as a vapor barrier.

Although you did not ask about Hardi-Plank it is my preference. I live in Houston which is heavy on the humidity and Hardi-Plank is the only way to go short of brick.

Just my opinion.

 

[1320stang]

Cool, yeah I would try to match you house if at all possible. I used a blade in my circular saw to cut the Hardipanel. It was carbide tipped and had a total of 4 teeth, 90^ apart. You can also use a cheap, thin plywood blade.

 

[Sundowner]

Wow. Here's an eye opener. I just called up my local lumber yard to get prices for a sheets of OSB and T1-11.

T1-11 is $34.50 per sheet, which works out to $1.08/sqft.

The HardiPlank needs OSB, so that needs to be factored into the price. My luberyard quoted $6 per sheet, which works out to $0.19/sqft. The HardiPlank itself is $6.29 for a 7 sq-ft section, which works out to $0.90/sqft. Total that up, and you get $1.09/sqft.

I'm sure I'm missing some hidden costs with the HardiPlank though.

Ed

Homey D had T1-11 for $25/sheet last week. the OSB variant of T1-11 is called "SmartSide" and it was $19/sheet. just an FYI

 

[twostory]

PS- What's a "Malco Clip", where do I buy one, and how much does it cost?
PPS- What shears do I use to cut? Can I use my metal shears?

The Malco FCG2 clip is available at Amazon & other online stores

I have been using Pacific International Tool & Shear SS404 SteelHead Fiber Cement Cutting Shear. They cost just over $200 and I am happy with them. As for using your metal shear, it probably will not work, and you many dull the metal shear with hardiplank. Hardiplank is a cement based, so cutting it, is like dragging your tool across a concrete slab.

I strongly recommend you wear a good respirator if you cut Hardiplank with a circular saw. The dust is very bad for your lungs, apparently once silica dust gets into your lungs, it does not come out. So repeated breathing or the dust is very bad.

You will need a "fiber cement" saw blade for your circular saw. I bought a $20 one at Home Depot, it cuts good enough. There is a $50 blade, but I mostly use my shear to cut the hardiplank, but you need a saw to cut the thicker "harditrim" 1x4 pieces.

 

[arbee]

I used the Hardipanel product on my garage. I did not sheath it with OSB first. I added battens every 8" to cover the joints and the nails. I'm very happy with the end result. My house if vertical cedar and I considered t-11 also but I saw so much of it in the field rotten around the bottom. I paid $17 per sheet for hardipanel at Lowes in 2005.

Here is a link to my garage website and the page devoted to siding. There is a lot of detail about the siding process:

http://rbgarage.googlepages.com/siding

http://rbgarage.googlepages.com

Here is a picture of the end result:

 

[burger]

Hey!

This board is great! I ask a question, and you guys not only answer my question, but provide information I didn't even think to ask.


Thanks,
Ed

 

[JMURiz]

Glad someone else brought up hardiplank. I used it on my garage as well, looks the best and only needs painting every 10 years or so. It's pricey but it'll never rot. Another vote for it...and like 1320stang said, they have a T-111 style panel that comes in 4x8 sheets if that's the look you're going for.

 

[mdshore348]

i use behr solid stain through a sprayer. just had to respray after ten years. no biggie. looks ok to me.. !

 

[JMURiz]

mdshore, yours is wood right...BTW, looks great now that it's all finished.

 

[shocksystems]

Labor. 32 sq-ft of T-111 can be put up in about 2 minutes, but so can a sheet of Hardipanel.

What style of siding do you have on your house Ed?

Good discussion. I am putting Hardie siding on my garage, not the sheets but the lap siding.

The discussion about the Hardipanel though makes me wonder if it could be considered for the interior walls of the garage. I like the idea of T1-11 on interior walls of a garage but was concerned about the fire risk.

Any thoughts about using Hardipanel for interior walls of a garage?

Cheers!

Jim

 

[73super]

T1-11.. the ONLY way to go.

 

[mdshore348]

actually osb ,tyvek then hardiplank is a good setup. .for exterior that is. i wouldnt use anything but sheetrock on the interior ..