T12 to T5 retrofit kit

[Andybull]

I would like to get rid of over 100, T12 4-4'lamps and retrofit them to T5 2-4' lamps. These lamps are currently used in an office building I just purchased. The ceilings are about 8' in height.

Some of these lights are on 24/7, thus my electric bill is over $40,000.00 a year. I'm looking for these lights to help me save some $.

Who makes a retrofit kit that is not only price friendly, but also has a long life span?

TIA,

 

[Stuart in MN]

Check with your local electric utility to see if they have any incentive programs for business lighting upgrades. Assuming you are served by Duke Energy (I guessed on your location), they had an upgrade to T5 lights that expires December 31, but it appears they will continue to have a program for upgrading to T8 lights through 2013: http://www.duke-energy.com/south-carolina-business/smart-saver/smart-saver-incentive-updates.asp

 

[Andybull]

Thanks for the link. There is an incentive, rebate program that helps a little bit. What I'm trying to find out is which kit out there has been proven and is cost friendly. I don't want to buy junk and be sorry in the long run.
I will be doing the installation myself.

 

[hicketts]

I just worked the past couple of weekends for a company doing this same thing in a Bank of America building. It was an seven story tower with thousands of lights to retro fit. We used "Cooper" lighting retro fit kits for this particular job, but lithiona also makes decent kits. I found out though you need to test fit a few different types of kit's to see what fits best in you particular frames, there not all the same. I worked for a lighting maintenance company based out of Philly.

http://www.phillylighting.com/

 

[Andybull]

Thank you hicketts;

I need to make sure that my lamps will work with the Cooper system. The frame I've come across is different than the current more modern ones. The frame has a hinged flange on each end that when hinged up, the plastic lens will buckle, or fall out by bending of it's own weight.
I've also seen a kit that the ballast goes in place of the old bulb and the t5 bulb then is mounted on to it.
http://t5lightingusa.com/download-a-brochure/

 

[frankush]

Have you considered just replacing the entire fixture? When replacing in quantity, you'll get a much better price if you ask for a quote. The fixtures will be new and have a full warranty. Get the new lamps quoted at the same time. You'll spend less time changing out fixtures than you would retrofitting.

 

[Andybull]

What would the price of a 2'x4' T5 fixture be?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Biggest problem is the T5 "4 ft" bulbs are shorter, about 2 inches shorter, than the T8 and T12 bulbs.

Leviton does make T8 to T5 lamp holders

Go to THIS web page or just go straight to the DOCUMENT itself

A good lighting supply house should be willing to help on this as it will be a large sale for them. Lot of money and work to change out lamp holders and ballast, but worth it in the end.

Replacing the entire fixture with one already set up with bulbs usually gets you a good warranty on everything, possibly as much as five years on the bulbs.

Be aware there are T5 (28W) bulbs that don't put out much more light than a T8 but consume a modest amount less power, and then the T5HO (54 W) puts out a lot more light for a modest increase in power consumption. Of course you intend to halve the bulb count, which in the end will reduce your power consumption by over a third.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

What would the price of a 2'x4' T5 fixture be?

Are these drop in fixtures in a suspended ceiling? What is the voltage? (probably 277 but not an issue since the new ballasts all work on 120 to 277 without any changes.

Charles

 

[Andybull]

The lamps will fit in a drop ceiling. They need to be 120 volts.

 

[Andybull]

I've been doing a lot of reading, the T5's that I need being that they will be used in a relatively low ceiling, will not be HO's. I would like to use the T5's due to my intuition that T8's will go the way of the T12.

Rent can't go up so I need to find long term cost saving measures.

 

[frankush]

I don't think the T8's will be going anywhere for quite some time. In 15 years it will be time to replace all the ballasts anyway. The old magnetic ballasts might last up to 40 years. The new electronic ballasts will never last that long. Brand new T8 fixtures will cost half of what the T5's cost. Do yourself a favor and contact the local electrical supply house. Tell them you're thinking of replacing what you currently have and would like them to do a lighting audit. They will send a rep out and quote new fixtures or retrofit items free of charge. They want the sale. They'll also provide payback information.

 

[scottyboy122]

Have you tried using a T5 retrofit kit? I purchased a couple from Amazon for the laundry room and they work great. Only needed 2 kits for the 4 lamp T12. Took about 15 min to install and reduced wattage by 63%. I was thinking about retrofitting my office (since I pay the electric) and called the company directly. Spoke to the owner and the price was 40% less than what I paid on Amazon. The mfg is called the Green Savings Co.

 

[Andybull]

Scottyboy122:

That is similar to what I had in mind. What price did you get from the company? I would like to know if these things really last, it would be nice if they are made in the USA.

 

[Norcal]

I would like to get rid of over 100, T12 4-4'lamps and retrofit them to T5 2-4' lamps. These lamps are currently used in an office building I just purchased. The ceilings are about 8' in height.

Some of these lights are on 24/7, thus my electric bill is over $40,000.00 a year. I'm looking for these lights to help me save some $.

Who makes a retrofit kit that is not only price friendly, but also has a long life span?

TIA,

You might consider a 2-lamp T8 retrofit kit w/ reflectors, the energy savings over T5 would be significant & costs for T8 lamps & ballasts are lower too.

 

[Andybull]

I e-mailed The Green Companies and just got a reply from it's president with prices, about $54.00 per fixture including two 28 watt bulbs.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If you are taking out four T12 bulbs and installing two T5 (non HO) bulbs, I doubt you are going to have enough light. Have you looked at the lumen output of the T12 vs a T5? Lumens are what you need to compare.

Charles

 

[Andybull]

I'm still looking and asking. The reply from Green Companies is:

Each kit is 28w, so you will be using 56w per fixture. Based on your ceiling height I would recommend a 5000k color temperature. You could always try 4100k as well, it would just be a bit warmer.

 

[Andybull]

So will two T8 HO's be equivalent to four T12's?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The OP needs to first spend some time on websites such as GE and Phillips. Looking at the GE linear tube web pages

http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/apac/products/technologies/linear-fluorescent/index.jsp

I found that they do not even list T12 so I could not find any comparison info. Also, they do not list any "4 ft" T8HO lamps

Generally

standard T5 28w 4000K color (cool white, most popular) 2640 lumen up to 30K hr life depending on the exact lamp and series chosen. (some are only 20K hr life) (note that you lose about 200 lumen when you go to 6500K blue white color)

Jump to T5HO 54w 4000K color 4460 lumen (drops to 4100 lumens at 6500K color bulb) 30K hr life. (again, you lose about 260 lumen when going to 6500K color)

Switch to T8 36w in the upper line of GE lamps (polylux longlast) you see a 24K hr life and drop to the non-longlast and it drops to 15K hr life)

As far as T8 lumens, Polylux will give you 3350 lumen at 4000K color, go to the standard lamp and the lumen drops to 2650 lumen, a huge loss.

Price will be a huge factor. T5 technology is expensive, but getting cheaper.

If you want the long life you need in a large building, you will have to invest more dollars in buying the higher grade bulbs, and not going on color specs alone, no matter what brand you chose.

By far your best value in lumen per watt is the T8 long life, high quality lamps, at 93 l/watt. T5 will yield 87.5 l/watt and T5HO will yield 82.6 l/watt.

The very worst thing you can do is buy cheap bulbs, with the standard GE T8 4000K color at 2650 lumen giving you a 73 l/watt figure.

You will also have to look at ballast cost, and probably new lamp holders to replaced the burned ones.

Reality is, your best bet is to replace the entire fixtures with new, you get new ballast, new lamp holders, new bulbs (specify pre lamped fixtures with high quality bulbs), they are clean, new lenses, reflect more light, but you are still looking at 3 bulb minimum to give you the light, properly distributed.

One of your largest costs, and one you haven't considered, it old lamp disposal. As a commercial operator, you are looking at total compliance and you are going to have to pay big for someone to bring in special boxes to place the old lamps in and pay them to take them away and dispose of them.

Old fixtures will bring scrap metal prices once the ballast and bulbs are removed. Scrap metal place would not even take my old magnetic ballast, said they were of no value what-so-ever.

OP also needs to have SEVERAL different lighting experts come in and talk turkey with him about options and costs. Only thing I can say is do not go down the road of cheap quality bulbs, it will bite you. When they specify a bulb, make them justify it and then do your own research.

The options on the internet is daunting but spending some time will give you some background to help you work thru this.

Charles

 

[Andybull]

Thanks Charles. I'll be contacting Duke power after the New Year and have them do a power survey of the building. The last thing I want to do is buy junk and regret it soon after.

 

[Andybull]

Duke Power just informed me that the rebate plan they now have is for T8's due to the fact that T5's use about the same energy as T12's. What brand ballast and bulbs should I buy that will last the longest? BTW, at last count I have to retrofit over 200 lamps.

I just changed two lamps over to GE brand ballasts. I need to find out if GE brand products fall into the DP program.

 

[79mudbugg]

change the entire fixture it will save you in labor!! trust me and also the 4100k is all i use in office building people like them
you can order them w/bulbs installed!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

change the entire fixture it will save you in labor!! trust me and also the 4100k is all i use in office building people like them
you can order them w/bulbs installed!

I suspect from his earlier posts, Andy has more time, than money (which is true of most of us) and the only issue Andy needs to consider is to find out which p/n bulb fittings (aka tombstones) the fixtures use, and get a gross of them on hand when he starts the work, as a number of them will break, and a number of them will be burned up.

I found it easier on my one simple two fixture conversion, to **** the wires 6 in or so from the tombstones and wire nut the new to the existing, rather than messing with trying to release the wires from their push in connections at the tombstones. So a bunch of tiny wirenuts might be a worthwhile investment also.

The right tools will help, these Klien strippers are the cats meow for scoring the insulation on solid wire, without nicking the wire itself. Also works on stranded wire.

Charles

 

[Andybull]

I've got the strippers and plenty of small wire nuts, which is how I went about replacing the ballasts on the two lamps. Which is the best bulb and ballast brand?

Mudbug:

I don't want to trow away the fixture, I would rather recycle them through the retrofit.

 

[Andybull]

These are old fixtures, so I will look into pricing out complete fixtures. What's the best bang for the buck on 2'x4' office fixture with a good ballast?