T8 High Output Questions

[camtr]

I have a 30x56 Shop with 10 foot high walls. I recently bought from home depot 12 t8 high output lithonia 8 foot fixtures that use 4 foot bulbs. These have -20 start commercial balasts (sylvania or accupro). All the ballasts are rated A for noise so interference with radios should not be any trouble.

My question is on what bulbs to use. I bought two 25 pack phillips 2750 lumens, 6500k. I hooked one fixture up and it seemed not very bright and also looked like it had some flickering. Did I buy the wrong bulbs to take advantage of the -20 start temp, high output fixtures? Will these bulbs work? I should also say that it was below zero when I tried them.

Could someome please enlighten me about bulbs for these fixtures. I believe from reading prior posts that these fixtures are used by some members in this forum. Thanks.

 

[pattenp]

If they are HO fixtures you need to use HO bulbs. Does the ends of the bulbs you have look like the attached picture?

 

[camtr]

The end on the bulbs I bought do not have the black piece on the end, just the two metal pins that come out of the bulb. Thanks

 

[pattenp]

Are you sure the fixtures you purchased are HO? I thought the T8 HO fixtures only used the type of bulb that I attached a picture of. I may be wrong, but I have some regular style T8 fixtures and they use the two pin style bulbs.

 

[pattenp]

If the bulbs you have are HO then there should be the letters "HO" in the printing on the bulb such as "F48T8/TL841/HO/ALTO"

 

[camtr]

On the outside of the carton it says 8 foot 4 lamp tandem heavy duty high output strip t8 mvolt 120-277v. commercial ho/cw ballast starts down to -20 with 32w lamps. one of the ballasts show lamp types 4 x fo32t8. Also says suitable for u bend and ss equivalents. I would give a link to the item at home depot but it is not shown on their web site. Thanks

 

[pattenp]

Maybe someone else can shed some light on this. (No pun intended.) To be a HO fixture I thought it required HO lamps. If not then what's the purpose of HO lamps?

 

[-JP]

They are not HO lamps or ballast based upon the 32W rating on the ballast.

If you have a ballast model number, that would help but if it does not indicate the higher lamp wattage for the HO type then it is just a regular T8 ballast.

JP

 

[pattenp]

How can they rate the start temp at -20 if it's not a HO ballast? The fixture using a standard two pin bulb is what confused me.

 

[camtr]

I am now thinking you all are right and they are not high output like the boxes say, did I misinterpet something? Are these lights any good if they are not the high output? The tag at home depot said 8' high output strip tf-Lithonia LIghting TUNS232MVOLT. E 247-790 sku number. $56 each. I Thought I was buying the ones other people have been recommending in this forum.

So Far from the boxes I opened I have 2 seperate types of ballasts.

1. QHE 4x32T8/UNV ISH Sylvania
2. AP-432IP-H-UNV Accupro

Thanks again.

 

[pattenp]

I was looking at some lights in HD some time ago and questioned them on some of the T8's to find out that the fixtures had been packaged in wrong boxes from the manufacturer. If the fixtures you bought are regular t8's with electronic ballast then they should be good to 0 degrees startup.

 

[camtr]

Both Ballasts do saw on them that they can go down to -20F. The sylvania one says it will do that with 4 x F032t8 bulbs. The Accupro one says it has a min start temp of -20 with 4 x F32T8 32 watt lamps

 

[Ign]

Interested too. Was looking at these fixtures at HD also. The box for the fixtures does say -20 start temp. I'm also a little confused on how they can be "HO" but still use 32W bulbs.

I hope someone who actually knows what they're talking about chimes in...... 'cause I don't.

 

[-JP]

The ballast are typical electronic ballast, not HO type. The Sylvania ballast has a high ballast factor but other than that it is nothing special. It has a minimum starting temp of -20 F but that is nothing special either.

Not sure if it was a mistake in the box used or if it was a marketing ploy to take liberties with labeling in an attempt to move product.

Sorry but nothing special.

JP

 

[camtr]

I guess I am confused about what I can expect then from these fixtures using the standard 32w lamps. I do not know much about the difference between HO and Non HO. I am wondering If I should take them back, I have 12 of them and the store is 100 miles away. Will these be bright when they warm up then or what is the big plus with the high output. If these are not the high output lights than I don't believe I saw any at home depot. This do light up some way below zero but like I said earlier seem dim and I would have expected them to give off way more light. I live in MN and it gets below -30 here at times and my garage is not heated.

Thanks again.

 

[Ign]

Sorry but nothing special.

JP

So, what would qualify as "special?"

A bulb rating higher than 32W?

Also do T8 HO bulbs use the square/rectangle ends vs just two pins?

 

[-JP]

Camtr,

I would not recommend this type of ballast/lamp combination for an unheated garage in your area of the country.

On those days where the temperature is -30F or below it is possible the lamps will not even arc and you will be in the dark. Even if they do arc and the lamps begin to fluoresce, the light output will be so low it will only offer you enough light to barely see where your walking. With no heat in the space, it will take the lamps a long time to warm up in that kind of climate.

I would recommend either using a T8 or T12 size of the HO or VHO type lamp with a -20F rated ballast OR, go with high wattage incandescent lamps like 200W PS30 style. Both options are not efficient but they will work when you need them and offer a good light level to actually see what you are doing. The side benefit to the incandescent is the heat output might actually offer some warm comfort to your space if you have enough of them.


In response to comments from Ign:

Definition of special is other than normal.

If the ballast were HO, VHO, Dimming, DALI, to name a few of the many types available that are not "Normal" or "Typical" would then be considered "Special".

Yes, a lamp (not bulb) rating in excess of 32W for a 48" linear T8 size would be considered special.

Yes, as shown in the 2nd post of this string with a pic, the HO style lamp (not bulb) utilizes the recessed double contact base on each end of the tube.

Although the term "Bulb" is thrown around generically for all types of light sources, it is technically incorrect to describe a linear fluorescent in terms other than "Lamp or Tube". The "T" in T8, T12, T17 all stand for the word Tube to describe the shape of the lamp. The safest and always correct word to describe all light sources is by the word "Lamp".

JP

 

[camtr]

I did call one of the ballast manufactors and they did inform me these will start at -20 with regular t8 lamps, they said don't use energy saving ones as they will not last long in that low temperature. I also was told it would be normal for them to flicker and be duller until the lamps warm up and that the dim light and flickering is bulb related and not anything wrong with the ballast.

I may use these lights on one or two circuits and install a few incandescent lamps on a different one for the times when these fluorescent do not work well. I also have 3 garage door openers installed and each one of those has 100 watt incandescent lamps in them that can be used anytime.

I may also look around and see if I can find any of the HO or VHO fixtures. I will have to decide which way I want to go.

Thanks for the Help. camtr

 

[SgtRauksauff]

I just bought the same exact fixtures at Home Depot and installed them over the weekend. The lamps I got were Phillips 32W "Daylight" 6500K T8's. Two pins on the end, no black plastic protector. That photo is the first I've ever seen of it.

I didn't ask around or do much more digging, as it said "High Output" right on the box, and the -20° start temperature was there as well, which was a huge difference from all of the other fixtures that they were selling. One of the staff members of Home Depot was mentioning, while he got the box of bulbs out of the rack they were in, that the "High Output" terminology was lamp independent, and entirely up to the ballasts.

After seeing some of this thread, I kind of feel like I got ripped off. Like I was sold a computer with a 2ghz computer processor, only to find out that it was just an overclocked 1.5ghz. Or being sold a car with twin turbos, only to find that they were turbo-style mufflers, not forced induction devices.

However, after installing them, and using them for a day or two, they are certainly brighter than any other fluorescent fixture I've tried. They make the 200W CFL's we've got in the garage for task lighting seem completely un-necessary.

So, they may have been using the term "High Output" as a relative (to standard output) term, rather than an official term used for categorization by a standards committee.

I feel kinda chapped, but I still really like the light output they're giving me. I'd really like to know where to find the actual specifications and learn more. Googling is giving me lots of shopping links, but not many informational ones...

**Edit** Here's one I came across and read through... http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightinganswers/t8/abstract.asp
--sarge

 

[camtr]

I can relate to you feeling like you got ripped off, I feel the same way. I ended up taking one of my fixtures into the house and trying it, I was impressed with the light it gave off and the 6500k lamps seemed nice.

I then took it back out to my shop and hooked it up for a couple hours and it did end up getting brighter but not as bright as when it was in the house. The lamps did appear to give off enough light to be useable, it was about 10-15 below zero.

I understand that there are tube surrounds (guards) that can be put around the lamps to help them heat up faster in the cold. I am thinking about trying to find some and try them out but doubt I can find any in my local area. I also am wondering if the tube surrounds would have an adverse effect as far as tube life goes with the weather warms up. Has anyone used these and have any thoughts on them?

Thanks. camtr.

 

[SgtRauksauff]

I'll try to take some pictures. I think it might take up to about 5 minutes for everything to get to it's full brightness, but it's VERY good light. I was thinking of the tube surrounds just for damage protection, I hadn't even thought of a difference in the 'warmup' time as well. I'm going to get at least four, as the garage door is only about an inch from the lights (stupid 8-foot ceilings...), so I won't be able to put a wire shield around them.

--sarge

 

[SgtRauksauff]

Ok, here are a few pictures I snapped the other night. Pay no attention to the complete mess.

Here's a view from outside, with all the lights on. The door is covering the ends of two of the fixtures.

Here are the four CFLs in cans above the workbench:

Here's a view at the "right-hand" side of the garage, as looking from the overhead door. you can see by the light up in the rafters that once we get some insulation on the rafters, there'll be even more light. on the work surfaces.

and here's a view in the center, facing the door. The lights balance pretty well on either side of the car, making for a fairly good working environment. Not sure how it'll work for under-hood lighting, but we'll probably still need to use a trouble light at times.

They do take a minute or two to warm up completely, but they're awesome so far.

--sarge

 

[eclou]

I was told by the Home Depot electrical guy that the "H.O." labeled tandem unit ($56) and the non-H.O. unit ($39) are the same except one has the 277v capable ballast while the cheaper one is only 110v. With that in mind, there is no reason to buy the more expensive one unless you are running 277v or need the extra cold capability

 

[cabman]

I was told by the Home Depot electrical guy that the "H.O." labeled tandem unit ($56) and the non-H.O. unit ($39) are the same except one has the 277v capable ballast while the cheaper one is only 110v. With that in mind, there is no reason to buy the more expensive one unless you are running 277v or need the extra cold capability

This is not true I was looking at those lights the other day at HD they have a different ballast factor the "H.O." labeled tandem unit has a much higher ballast factor something like ~1.10 vs .90 for the non-H.O. unit. I don't remember the exact number but you get the idea.

Ballast factor is a measure of the actual lumen output for a specific lamp-ballast system relative to the rated lumen output measured with a reference ballast under ANSI test conditions

Basically the higher the ballast factor the more light you will get out of the fixture with the same bulbs.
More info:http://ateam.lbl.gov/Design-Guide/DGHtm/ballastfactor.htm

 

[camtr]

I decided to keep my lights and use them all, I have yet to wire them all up but I did test one in the -15 to -20 below temp using tube guards and the guards did help with the warm up time considerably. I think the lights will work nicely. Thanks.

 

[Dentmanaustin]

I just bought used 6 bulb mirrored fixters and when I had to replace the ballast because of the rating on ballast I talked to my friend in the lighting world and he explained it to me like this, there are 3 different ballast you can buy. A low ballast factor with a .55 rating, standard ballast factor which most lights come with a .88 and then a high ballast factor with a 1.22 rating which makes the bulbs run 30% brighter than a standard ballast factor. This might be why they ate saying it is a high output light