table saw fence

[lbhsbz]

12 years ago when I bought my first house, I bought the decent-est cheapest table saw I could find...A Ryobi unit with a wheeled folding stand, sliding table, table extentions...etc... It has lived a good life and done everything I've asked of it. The bearings got a bit noisy after I cut a 2" thick slab of aluminum in half over 20 inches...and lost of bit of its accuracy, but still does OK for typical home-gamer table saw stuff. I built some garage cabinets a few weeks ago and finally saw its weaknesses.

So, I picked up a nice craftsman saw on a stand with a cast iron table and the waffled table extenders on each side (they need some help)...but it didn't have a fence.

I've seen plenty of wood fence plans / videos...and all look sorta OK, but I have the advantage that I have welding capability and a full size mill as well as a 14x40 lathe.

The scrap pile contains lots of unistrut, some heavy aluminum angle, aluminum bar, steel square tube up to 2.5", and a bunch of other stuff.

What should I build my fence out of?

 

[MarvinBerry]

Good question... If digging through a scrap pile first priority would be finding a piece of something that's dead nuts straight. No dings, divits or slight bends.

I would tend to think that aluminum vs steel etc would depend on thickness & weight of material and personal preference.

 

[driftpin]

I think I'd just look in ebay for a saw being parted-out, or maybe a blown-up one on CL.

Sounds like you have what you need, but it would be a challenge.

A friend of mine has a brand-new 1980's Craftsman 10" contractor's saw (yes, new-in-box).He bought it back-then and has never operated it, I don't know if the box has ever been opened. It's just been sitting on a shelf in his garage. He's a master HVAC license-holder, and runs his own company.

 

[driz]

Have you tried actually looking for a fence. Brain fart I can’t remember the names right now. There are online stores that sell all the old surplus parts. Equally important is they have the exploded diagram and PART #s! You can quite often find the real thing for not a bad price. The hard part is gettting the part number.


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[driftpin]

Have you tried actually looking for a fence. Brain fart I can’t remember the names right now. There are online stores that sell all the old surplus parts. Equally important is they have the exploded diagram and PART #s! You can quite often find the real thing for not a bad price. The hard part is gettting the part number.


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Ereplacementparts.com should have the parts fiches & parts #'s

 

[lbhsbz]

The original fence that came on this saw was sort of a POS...clamped down on both ends and typically required futsing with it and measuring against the blade to get it square. I want to build a T-square style fence...like the beismeyer style. Lots of plans online to build one out of plywood, but I figure since I have metal working capabilities, why not go "better"....if it will be better.

 

[matt_i]

Imo you have an excellent inspiration, the Biesemeyer design. I believe it to be the best and simplest. I have one on the dry erase board for my Dad for an old Craftsman saw, probably as old as Bill Biesemeyer himself lol.

-make sure you build in adjustment for perfectly square, ideally the saw-blade-frame is set parallel to the machined T-slot in the table, and then the rip fence set parallel to the slot & blade as well...

- the cam-clamp is the best and fastest also.

- I'd buy the adhesive tape measure, once you have agreement between your tape measure and the fixed tape measure you can be very fast and confident. You need the clear plastic part with the scribed tell-tale, possibly available as a replacmenet part from Delta, Biesemeyer, or Powermatic also copied or licensed the design.

Seems like there's a web article out there (or was) with material sizes, it used bronze-brazing instead of welding but was a pretty good look into a design you can tweak for your own uses.

 

[Showkey]

beismeyer style Home built 30 year ago:



View attachment 859293

Google “beismeyer style” available in kit form and several DIY projects on sites and YouTube.



Note: guard removed for clarity.

 

[bubinga]

The original fence that came on this saw was sort of a POS...clamped down on both ends and typically required futsing with it and measuring against the blade to get it square. I want to build a T-square style fence...like the beismeyer style. Lots of plans online to build one out of plywood, but I figure since I have metal working capabilities, why not go "better"....if it will be better.

They are a POS (The fence) Align-A-Rip from craftsman is a decent fence if you can find one reasonable.Delta sells one kind O like the bies, but cheaper.
But you are looking to build one, so go for it.
Guess I wasn't much help.............LOL

 

[shoot summ]

beismeyer style Home built 30 year ago:



View attachment 859293

Google “beismeyer style” available in kit form and several DIY projects on sites and YouTube.



Note: guard removed for clarity.

This.

Not sure if you saw Ryan's Unisaw build, he made his own Biesemeyer style using these plans:

https://vsctools.com/diy-guide-rails/

 

[JVB]

I use the delta and am very happy with it. I believe they are one in the same if not owned by Biesemeyer.
Can be found under 200$

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-P...uare-Fence-and-Rail-System-36-T30T3/205803795

 

[Honest Bob]

I was in a similar situation and I ended up with one of these. Probably not as nice as a biesemeyer but it was a game changer for me.

http://www.mulecab.com/tablesaw.html

 

[lbhsbz]

As luck would have it, found a new in box Delta T3 fence this morning on Craiglist for under $100. So...we're doing that instead.

 

[ez-duzit]

As luck would have it, found a new in box Delta T3 fence this morning on Craiglist for under $100. So...we're doing that instead.

This is the most sense you've made in this thread.

 

[lbhsbz]

Got everything set up...this Delta fence is a piece of garbage. I can square up a piece of bar stock with clamps quicker than I can square up this fence.


Needs some modifications

 

[jives]

Maybe too late to add some comments, but these Craftsman saws also came with an "Align-a-Rip" fence that is pretty good. See if you can find a parts doner.

 

[pjmariner]

Got everything set up...this Delta fence is a piece of garbage. I can square up a piece of bar stock with clamps quicker than I can square up this fence.


Needs some modifications

I put the older version, the Delta T2 on my late 70's craftsman table saw. I took some tweaking and drilling of the rails to get it aligned to my saw properly, but once I dialed it in it is dead balls accurate and I haven't adjusted it once since. Maybe quality has changed on the fence....

I also added a cast iron wing from sears parts department, not sure if they still sell them anymore, and a machined pulleys and a link belt. Saw now has zero vibration, very happy with it. The man I got my saw from had already added a magnetic lockable motor starter with a stop button I can hit with my knee. I got the saw from the previous owners daughter for free when he passed (along with my proto 5 drawer, the delta drill press and a shopping bag full of loose tools/drill bits etc). It was in sort of rough shape, I put about $300 into it and now I am completely happy with saw and I am keeping it unless I ever get a saw stop, which if the kids take a bigger interest in woodworking seems like a worthwhile investment.

I don't have a closeup, but here is a decent pic. It also has a router table on right hand side, and I added dust collection to the blade guard, and a dust chute captures all the big stuff.

 

[lbhsbz]

For those of you that have the delta fence...

On the angle piece that clamps against the square tube, there is a piece of 3/16"ish x 1" flat stock about 10" long that's welded inside the angle that acts as the bearing surface. On mine, it's rosette welded through a couple holes near the center, and the ends are lifted from the angle...causing it to act like a leaf spring. This limited cam travel is absorbed by compressing this leaf spring and I run out of cam before it clamps tight. I can still move the fence around with not much effort after clamping it down.

Wondering if that piece of flat stock is supposed to be raised on the ends or if mine is just messed up.

 

[bubinga]

Maybe too late to add some comments, but these Craftsman saws also came with an "Align-a-Rip" fence that is pretty good. See if you can find a parts doner.

Yes they are. As Luck would have it, I had a 113.XXXX saw with the crappy fence, but I got abt. 4 fences, and 2 sets of rails, For $10.00, with 2 craftsman 1/4" drive air ratchets, One brand new, the other lightly used.
(Sold the lightly used Air ratchet for $10.00)
One of the rail set, was deformed (smashed a little) on the end, but didn't affect it's use.
The other rail set was An "orphan" to those "Align-a-Rip" fences, (I still have it for that matter (the spare rail set). But it turned that table saw 180!!

 

[bubinga]

Got everything set up...this Delta fence is a piece of garbage. I can square up a piece of bar stock with clamps quicker than I can square up this fence.


Needs some modifications

Well that's a shame!
That's the fence I was talking about.
I had heard that was a good fence.

Is the table saw top waked well, (and the rails too) ?

 

[lbhsbz]

Well that's a shame!
That's the fence I was talking about.
I had heard that was a good fence.

Is the table saw top waked well, (and the rails too) ?

see post 18. I think it's a great fence, but I think the one I got might have been welded together on a friday afternoon

 

[pjmariner]

For those of you that have the delta fence...

On the angle piece that clamps against the square tube, there is a piece of 3/16"ish x 1" flat stock about 10" long that's welded inside the angle that acts as the bearing surface. On mine, it's rosette welded through a couple holes near the center, and the ends are lifted from the angle...causing it to act like a leaf spring. This limited cam travel is absorbed by compressing this leaf spring and I run out of cam before it clamps tight. I can still move the fence around with not much effort after clamping it down.

Wondering if that piece of flat stock is supposed to be raised on the ends or if mine is just messed up.

Does yours not have set screws going through the angle that increase or decrease the stand off amount of the ends of the inner rail? Also doe yours have glides on the end of the inner rail? The set screws allow you to increase the tension on the handle, as well as fine tune the squareness of the fence, I can attach pics if that doesn't make sense.

 

[lbhsbz]

Does yours not have set screws going through the angle that increase or decrease the stand off amount of the ends of the inner rail? Also doe yours have glides on the end of the inner rail? The set screws allow you to increase the tension on the handle, as well as fine tune the squareness of the fence, I can attach pics if that doesn't make sense.

The only adjustment I saw was 2 nylon screws to adjust the vertical angle of the fence. I will look again tonight.

 

[lbhsbz]

Does yours not have set screws going through the angle that increase or decrease the stand off amount of the ends of the inner rail? Also doe yours have glides on the end of the inner rail? The set screws allow you to increase the tension on the handle, as well as fine tune the squareness of the fence, I can attach pics if that doesn't make sense.

Got home from work and checked it out again...found the 2 set screws in question...they act upon what I'd previously called the leaf spring...effectively creating to points to clamp down on the square tube....kinda hokey, but sort of functional.

With the piece of angle in place on the outfeed side of the table, everything twists up a bit when I get it adjusted tight enough to clamp properly, and it doesn't square up on it's own. I can line one end up with a slot in the table and leave the other end 1/4" out, and it'll stay there when I clamp it down. If I remove the angle on the outfeed side, it squares up nicely, but flops around on the outfeed side with not much pressure.

At this point, it's better than no fence, but it's nothing special. A couple clamps and a piece of angle or bar stock would be more functional and only take a few extra seconds to set up...since the tape measure is coming out anyway.

Not impressed for something that normally costs over $200. The fence on my 11 year old $200 ryobi self squares better....and it was free with a $200 saw.

 

[bubinga]

Got home from work and checked it out again...found the 2 set screws in question...they act upon what I'd previously called the leaf spring...effectively creating to points to clamp down on the square tube....kinda hokey, but sort of functional.

With the piece of angle in place on the outfeed side of the table, everything twists up a bit when I get it adjusted tight enough to clamp properly, and it doesn't square up on it's own. I can line one end up with a slot in the table and leave the other end 1/4" out, and it'll stay there when I clamp it down. If I remove the angle on the outfeed side, it squares up nicely, but flops around on the outfeed side with not much pressure.

At this point, it's better than no fence, but it's nothing special. A couple clamps and a piece of angle or bar stock would be more functional and only take a few extra seconds to set up...since the tape measure is coming out anyway.

Not impressed for something that normally costs over $200. The fence on my 11 year old $200 ryobi self squares better....and it was free with a $200 saw.

Well keep at it. Should be able to get it right. Shame to throw away money.
I don't seem to have any ideas, without having it in front of me.

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[lbhsbz]

Well keep at it. Should be able to get it right. Shame to throw away money.
I don't seem to have any ideas, without having it in front of me.

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Spent the last hour screwing with it. Garbage.

I noticed it was rocking back and forth because neither of the nylon adjusters were contacting the square tube...so I grabbed a machinists square and set those to lift the assembly off the square tube...now we have 2 bearing points, about 3/8" in diameter each. The square contacts the top and bottom of the extruded aluminum fence sides, but there is daylight (flashlight) visible in the middle...so at the table and at the top it's OK, but in the middle it's 1/32 or so depressed. The whole thing is twisted if I check it with the square at the outfeed end of the table.

This is turning into a gigantic pain in the ***. Based on my limited ability to determine whether or not the table on the new saw is flat...it's flat. The table extensions need some work, but I'm not working on those right now. I think I might just throw some new bearings in the Ryobi and sell/scrap the whole new mess.

 

[pjmariner]

The back rail is not meant to clamp. Its only function is to give fence something to glide on, and to allow for extension table support. The whole purpose of a T-square style fence is it only clamps at the front, avoiding binding or alignment issue you find with fences that clamp both front and back. It is true you will get some deflection with a t-square style vs dual clamping style, but you should not be applying much lateral pressure to outfeed side of fence anyway.

 

[bubinga]

Spent the last hour screwing with it. Garbage.

I noticed it was rocking back and forth because neither of the nylon adjusters were contacting the square tube...so I grabbed a machinists square and set those to lift the assembly off the square tube...now we have 2 bearing points, about 3/8" in diameter each. The square contacts the top and bottom of the extruded aluminum fence sides, but there is daylight (flashlight) visible in the middle...so at the table and at the top it's OK, but in the middle it's 1/32 or so depressed. The whole thing is twisted if I check it with the square at the outfeed end of the table.

This is turning into a gigantic pain in the ***. Based on my limited ability to determine whether or not the table on the new saw is flat...it's flat. The table extensions need some work, but I'm not working on those right now. I think I might just throw some new bearings in the Ryobi and sell/scrap the whole new mess.

Well, darn, that *****

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[lbhsbz]

The back rail is not meant to clamp. Its only function is to give fence something to glide on, and to allow for extension table support. The whole purpose of a T-square style fence is it only clamps at the front, avoiding binding or alignment issue you find with fences that clamp both front and back. It is true you will get some deflection with a t-square style vs dual clamping style, but you should not be applying much lateral pressure to outfeed side of fence anyway.

Understood...and it would operate like that if we have more bearing surface than we have...with a few small point contacts, things will be flimsy...and are flimsy

Time to redisign things.

I sprayed the table with Dykem a while ago....ran my 12x12 cast iron surface plate over things which exposed a few shiny spots. Scraped those down, second coat is drying now...will scrape those down and switch to prussian blue. It's not that bad, but could be better.

Can't believe I'm hand scraping a freaking table saw....guess that's the machinist in me

 

[lbhsbz]

So, I've been screwing with it all weekend. The fence is useless. Then I started researching problems with this fence system in search of a solution. Evidently there are 2 plastic "pads" or rub blocks that should be in place to bear on the backside of the square tube with the tape measure on it...they snap into the "leaf spring". Mine are both MIA. I found one of them stuck to some crumbled styrofoam in the box...but can't find the other. I may try to make a wax mold and cast one out of epoxy. Its a discontinued part from Delta.

Edit...measured the thickness of the one pad I had...0.080". Just so happens that those yellow lids on the black storage bins from home depot are....0.080" thick around the edge. So I stole a small piece off of one of my lids and super glued it on the other side. We'll re-adjust everything and see if it works any differently.

 

[bubinga]

Let us Know....I had long Reply "Token Expired" Lost post... PMRTFO!! Didn't have "the answer tho"