Taiwan vs China tools

[stricht8]

So Taiwanese tools are apparently of higher quality than Chinese. The "open-minded" tool purchsers here claim that Chinese tools have come a long way and that COO is un-important so long as the tool is well built. That's fair enough, but I've noticed that the "open-minded" tool purchasers here prefer Taiwan? So let me put it this way:
If COO doesn't matter and you have three identical (in every possible way except for the COO stamp) tools, but one is made in the USA, one is made in Taiwan and one is made in China and all cost the same then which would you choose?

 

[fivespdcat]

All things being equal I always pick USA. Even for a few bucks more I choose USA. Now if we're talking $20 vs. $200 I pick what I can afford. But this thread is doomed from the start...

 

[Trucky]

Easy for me to choose for that scenario.

USA to support the american manufacturer. I know, all the money doesn't get to them and whatnot from my purchase, but it's a sale for them if I buy it new. This is going along with the idea that all the tools are indentical in form, material, price, packaging, etc. Everything.

In situations where the US tools are priced similarily (usually a little above, a good example is channellock.), I will buy US made. But if I can save 50-80% off the price to buy chinese, I will. I was looking at the Kobalt "channellock" style (tongue and groove) pliers at Lowes earlier today. 10" ones were around 8$, and the CL's were a bit under double that, but not enough to put me off from the purchase.

I prefer to buy from Western countries first, then Japan/Taiwan, then whatever past there. Usually when I get to the last group is when I'm buying something to use once and give it to someone else or just toss it.

 

[plinker]

If COO doesn't matter and you have three identical (in every possible way) tools, but one is made in the USA, one is made in Taiwan and one is made in China and all cost the same then which would you choose?

For me it boils down to cost vs. use.

If it's something I'm going to use all the time, USA made, if possible (usually the best I can afford).

Things like service tools are something I dont use too often, so I'll buy Decent one's, usually made in Taiwan, some are US made.

I do go out of my way to buy Taiwan over china for reasons I wont get into here. I would say Taiwanese made tools are (for the most part) on par with US made stuff, based on my experiance.

I would say probably 85% (or better) of my hand tools are US made the rest are foreign made. The Gear wrenches and impact sockets I have are the biggest portion of the remaining percentage (I did not count service type tools).

My direct answer to your question is USA made (if possible/affordable).

 

[stricht8]

So far it seems like USA is the winner. So why do so many at Garage Journal claim that COO is irrelevant if the quality is the same?

 

[booya719]

Any professional mechanic who has used any Chinese tools has undoubted split and twisted many Chinese wrenches. I know I have. When you break them apart they are not even solid steel inside.

You find lumps of slag and weird-colored patches of different brittle metals inside once the wrench is snapped in half and often the wrenches look like sulfur inside. You don't believe me, take a hacksaw and cut a Chinese wrench in half. Some of the substances inside these wrenches might not even be safe to touch and I don't even feel comfortable having them in my work area.

Taiwanese wrenches on the other hand, I've never had that happen to any Taiwan wrenches I've used. I've broken a few Taiwan wrenches and twisted up a socket extension but at least they were always solid steel inside even though they are of inferior quality. At least they don't contain any hazardous or weird metals like Chinese wrenches do.

 

[SMKS]

If the tools cost the same, then I would choose USA in a heartbeat.

But, in the real world, there is often a cost difference. Most of my tools are USA made, but I don't mind buying Taiwanese tools that are a value and well made. Taiwan is a US ally, a fully developed country and a real democracy.

I usually only buy Chinese products when I have little other choice. China is not a US ally and is not a democracy.

 

[stricht8]

All things being equal I always pick USA. Even for a few bucks more I choose USA. Now if we're talking $20 vs. $200 I pick what I can afford. But this thread is doomed from the start...

Oh believe me, I'm expecting it to turn to a ******* contest but I really want an honest answer especially from the diehard Asian tool supporters here.

 

[garfunkle24]

Given your ridiculous scenario, I would have zero preference.

 

[1982fxr]

bought the HF 20 ton shop press yesterday. Threw up in my mouth a little, but at $170 out the door, and you're not a pro wrench, and really only need it for motorcycle stuff......what can ya do?

I really couldn't afford it, but needed it. I tried to find a used one on cl, but no luck--I couldn't believe it. With my pay right now, there was no possible way i could step up to a new US press. I did what I had to do, but I damn sure didn't like it.

But back to your question, I'd choose Taiwan because we are not headed toward a military conflict with Taiwan. Can't necessarily say the same for china

 

[RangerDaleXp]

USA of course.

 

[shoturtle]

The chinese tools are not at the level of Taiwanese tools. So between the 2 I will always pick the made in taiwan.

I personally buy EU and US tools first. Taiwanese tools for the ones I do not use as often. I really shy away form chinese, because of the tool quality and for reason I won't mention here. The Chinese tools now are way better then the ones form just 5 years ago. Give them time the will get to the level of the taiwanese and japanese tools form asia.

But I lately have been leaning toward German tool more then US, I have broken my share of US extension bar and crack some chromed socket.

 

[garfunkle24]

You people are really not getting this, blathering on about quality and what not. The 3 wrenches are identical, they're just made in different places.

 

[stricht8]

USA of course.

But you state in the Duralast thread that COO doesn't matter?

 

[fivespdcat]

I would pose the same question, re-phrased to everyone on this board. If all things were equal, why wouldn't you buy a USA tool? To me it just makes sense, if it was all equal that USA would be on top (at least for US members). However we all know ere is a price for everything including marketing, overhead and manufacturing cost. The funny thing is that most of the mark up you see in a store is not due to the manufacturing costs but other things. That's a big reason, why small shops can be competitive in the US vs. Larger corps or in store sales prices. But then again they don't have the access like bigger manufacturers and marketers. If you buy direct from the source you can often bypass a lot of the store overhead, marketing and other costs and get a good deal, but this also has it's issues...

 

[shoturtle]

You people are really not getting this, blathering on about quality and what not. The 3 wrenches are identical, they're just made in different places.

the US and the Taiwanese one might be equal. The chinese one is lagging behind. That is the reality of the here and now. If it is not much have I pick the taiwanese, if I need it the US.

 

[fivespdcat]

the US and the Taiwanese one might be equal. The chinese one is lagging behind. That is the reality of the here and now. If it is not much have I pick the taiwanese, if I need it the US.

We're not talking reality, this is a theoretical question, that does not include brands. Just what would you pick if they were all the same?

 

[garfunkle24]

the US and the Taiwanese one might be equal. The chinese one is lagging behind. That is the reality of the here and now. If it is not much have I pick the taiwanese, if I need it the US.

As you're incapable of understanding the meaning of "hypothetical", I'll point out the part you missed:

...If COO doesn't matter...

Let me know if you need further clarification.

 

[shoturtle]

I would pose the same question, re-phrased to everyone on this board. If all things were equal, why wouldn't you buy a USA tool? To me it just makes sense, if it was all equal that USA would be on top (at least for US members). However we all know ere is a price for everything including marketing, overhead and manufacturing cost. The funny thing is that most of the mark up you see in a store is not due to the manufacturing costs but other things. That's a big reason, why small shops can be competitive in the US vs. Larger corps or in store sales prices. But then again they don't have the access like bigger manufacturers and marketers. If you buy direct from the source you can often bypass a lot of the store overhead, marketing and other costs and get a good deal, but this also has it's issues...

If all things were equal, I get the German one.

But if we factor out the german one, I would actually get either the US or Taiwanese tool. If I need it US, if it is nice to have but not essential the taiwanese.

 

[fivespdcat]

If all things were equal, I get the German one.

But if we factor out the german one, I would actually get either the US or Taiwanese tool. If I need it US, if it is nice to have but not essential the taiwanese.

I would be willing to venture that this is a standard answer. As I'm assuming you are German. This going to fall down the lines of COO of the members. I bet a Canadian would say "Canada" while a German says "Germany".

 

[plinker]

You people are really not getting this, blathering on about quality and what not. The 3 wrenches are identical, they're just made in different places.

I get what you mean in that they are all the same (in theroy), but the missing key part here is cost. Is one more expensive then the other? If they are all the same price, I'd still buy the USA made tool, just because.

Cost, availability, service & practicaility are a few of the different factor's in play that are not mentioned. as an example (maybe not a real good one), I would not order one from china as it would take 4-6 weeks to get here instead of 4-6 days for a US made product.

 

[RangerDaleXp]

But you state in the Duralast thread that COO doesn't matter?

I said i look at everything regardless of COO, It really doesn't matter with me, look at your first post saying everything being equal. like one poster said already, one set being the taiwanese version being $20 and the other US version being $100 and quality being the same, I will lean toward the $20 version. If the US made one was $30 then I would still go with the US version. I will not pay $100 for the US version.

 

[shoturtle]

Nope, I am American. I just live in Germany and the US. I go back an forth.
I have broken proto extensions and williams sockets. So while I know they are good quality and brands. I want to try my luck with the german tool, have not broken any of my german tools. And the German screwdrivers are way better then any US screwdriver I have used. Including so and matco, in my opinion.

But if price was equal between the US and the Taiwanese, I would still go with the US for need, and Taiwan for nice to have. It is global now, the taiwan company doing business here do employ US workers. So I throw them some business.

I would be willing to venture that this is a standard answer. As I'm assuming you are German. This going to fall down the lines of COO of the members. I bet a Canadian would say "Canada" while a German says "Germany".

 

[garfunkle24]

If COO doesn't matter and...and all cost the same...

I know educational standards in the USA are low, but this is fairly basic reading comprehension, is it not?

 

[garfunkle24]

And the Germany screwdrivers are way better then any US screwdriver I have used. Including so and matco.

The Matco ones are German.

 

[shoturtle]

The Matco ones are German.

Not the older ones I have used. But the wiha and wera ones are better then the felo ones imho.

 

[Matt018]

If i can I like USA, Such as Williams ratchets. Although Cheaper prices of good Taiwan tools are attractive, Such as Grey Pneumatic, or Taiwan Williams Wrenches.

 

[trboxman]

I know educational standards in the USA are low, but this is fairly basic reading comprehension, is it not?

Most everyone get's the question, and understands that the OP set it up so that there could be no preference...but it looks like most everyone doesn't GAFF what he intended or that you've pointed it out two or three times. HTH, HAND...

 

[kippieland]

I know educational standards in the USA are low, but this is fairly basic reading comprehension, is it not?

****'ish much!

 

[210Hardtop]

One of the funniest threads I've read on this site!

 

[Jim C.]

I don't buy from asia. If I can't buy new from the USA, then I'll get on the Internet and buy used USA made tools. During the past few years, I've actually gone out of my way to buy used USA tools. I've gotten some really good tools for very reasonable prices.

Jim C.

 

[garfunkle24]

****'ish much!

Willful ignorance and completely ignoring the OPs question to ram a COO argument down their throat is more dickish than pointing it out, IMO. Defending that practice is even worse.

You must feel defensive about ignorance for some reason.

 

[AndyL]

Remember back to the future? "But doc - all the best stuff is made in Japan" - realize, if back to the future was made today - they'd be going back to '85...

My COO thoughts are this - most of my American/Canadian made tools - are built from parts made in China, or Chinese steel, or Chinese bearings... this isn't the 50s, no products are made from parts completely locally sourced... its a global market for comodities, you cant prove to me that your snapon wrench has American made steel - that foundry gets steel from where ever they can get their product to spec cheapest. And just because the bar stock came from a US source - that doesn't mean it didn't get its feed stock from Brazil, or Mexico or Australia...

Ill stick to products with the best warranty and dealer networks, COO means nothing in this day and age... C'mon doc - all the best stuff comes from China.