Tamper Resistant Recepticles

[Junkman]

I am doing some modernization to the home, and was wondering about the requirement for tamper resistant receptacles. We have no children or grandchildren in the home, and the home was built in the early 1980's. Should I be installing the tamper resistant receptacles throughout the home, for the time when it comes to sell the home, or are homes grandfathered with what they were built with back in the 1980's? Would it make sense to just install the standard receptacles in the few places where new receptacles are being added, or should they be the new tamper resistant units? I don't want to run into a situation where a home inspector comes into the home, and says that everything has to be brought up to the present day code, whenever that time comes about.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If replacing existing receptacles then code requires TR outlets.

If it were me i wouldnt bother with the stupid "snake oil" TR outlets and replace with regular outlets. TR outlets are Just another industry product for a problem or danger that seldom existed.

However, the existing stuff is grandfathered so dont worry bout that.

 

[justsam]

You may find your selection somewhat narrow for non TR receptacles.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You may find your selection somewhat narrow for non TR receptacles.

Not at home depots out here.

They have all types of non TR outlets.

 

[frank001]

Lowes and HD here all have non TR receptacles. I wouldn't even think about using a TR if I needed a replacement.

 

[mikegt4]

I am doing some modernization to the home, and was wondering about the requirement for tamper resistant receptacles. We have no children or grandchildren in the home, and the home was built in the early 1980's. Should I be installing the tamper resistant receptacles throughout the home, for the time when it comes to sell the home, or are homes grandfathered with what they were built with back in the 1980's? Would it make sense to just install the standard receptacles in the few places where new receptacles are being added, or should they be the new tamper resistant units? I don't want to run into a situation where a home inspector comes into the home, and says that everything has to be brought up to the present day code, whenever that time comes about.

A home inspector can't tell you that "everything has to be brought up to present day code", most home inspectors don't seem to know the codes anyway. A potential buyer might want everything to current code as a negotiating point but you don't have to change anything, just move on to the next buyer.

 

[md21722]

A home inspector can't tell you that "everything has to be brought up to present day code", most home inspectors don't seem to know the codes anyway. A potential buyer might want everything to current code as a negotiating point but you don't have to change anything, just move on to the next buyer.

This. There has never been anything close to "whenever a transfer of ownership occurs the house must be rewired."

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

A home inspector can't tell you that "everything has to be brought up to present day code", most home inspectors don't seem to know the codes anyway. A potential buyer might want everything to current code as a negotiating point but you don't have to change anything, just move on to the next buyer.

Here we go again!

 

[woodzy]

My thoughts are if you are going to replace them than I would use TR ones. When they first came out, I have a TR GFCI plug and it took a gorilla to plug something into this. I ended up returning it and replace it with a non TR GFCI. I built my house two years ago, and the Inspector when asked by me (I did the wiring) if I need TR outlets, his response was "he didn't look for them" but when I went to buy the product at the big box store, they were mostly sold by the contractor pack with 10 to a box. The cost was slightly more and they work 1000 times better now, you only need a monkey.

So, my opinion is to use TR ones but I say it is your decision. If down the road you need to change them for some reason (some mortgage company requires it) then you change them then if you have to.

 

[Muzzy]

A home inspector can't tell you that "everything has to be brought up to present day code", most home inspectors don't seem to know the codes anyway. A potential buyer might want everything to current code as a negotiating point but you don't have to change anything, just move on to the next buyer.

Agreed. However I am curious about what realtors have to say. When I sold my last house, the buyers had a home inspection where the inspector erroneously pointed out some code errors, that I clarified, but my realtor was not convinced. When it came to negotiating time about the inspection, the buyers wanted a 5K reduction in price. I told them to pound sand, I could find another buyer. My realtor then told me to do so would mean that I would have to update the seller's disclosure to contain the home inspectors (false) opinion on code violations under PA law. This is where I asked to see his Architect's or PE license and everyone got in a negotiating mood .....in the end a 2K shift in price made everyone happy.

Basically, I'm curious if there was any truth to my realtor's claim that a home inspection report has to go on the sellers disclosure?

 

[md21722]

I had a real flake job buyer when I was selling a house about 5 years ago. They wanted $40,000 in repairs for structural problems, a roof, and "found" termites too. I told my agent they are crazy and she wanted me to pay for an engineering report, etc. I told her no way and there aren't any termites either, can we sue them for fraud? Ultimately she had her termite guy come over and found nothing, and the next contractor who came over to do some agreed upon work unrelated laughed off the original concerns as well so she was fine. I also had the original inspection report from when I bought the house they showed the hairline cracks in the concrete hadn't changed in all those years. So I would say no there is no law. But undisclosed problems are grounds to be sued which is why they are particular about it.

 

[lakeroadster]

Basically, I'm curious if there was any truth to my realtor's claim that a home inspection report has to go on the sellers disclosure?

Lord no. As you pointed out, what are the home inspectors credentials?

We had an experience similar to yours last year when we sold our home. The buyers realtor, and the buyers home inspector, couldn't find their asses if they were in a dark closet. It really was, in hindsight, a comedy of errors.

Putting their "errors" on the disclosure I signed would have been a deal breaker for me.... and it wasn't required.

At least that's my experience.

 

[ddawg16]

I don't have any issues with the TR outlets.

And I don't have any issues with AFCI breakers either.

Termites? That is another topic. Bastards....

 

[lakeroadster]

Until I went to Home Depot this week to buy some outlets I didn't even know there was such a thing as TR outlets....

Now I know why I hate the new outlets they put in my new barn. I couldn't understand why they were so damn hard to plug things into and out of.

Then I looked at the outlet in the bathroom of our "new to us" home. The outlet my wife ******* about how hard it is to plug the hair dryers into and out of... sure enough, it's TR outlet.

WTF?

 

[mikegt4]

Unfortunately the "home inspector" business has become like the "landscaper" business.
Everyone with a trailer and a lawn mower has become a "landscaper".

Everyone with a ladder and a flashlight has become a "home inspector" and most have little if any code knowledge. A look at any professional electrician forum will show that all too many AHJ electrical code inspectors can't even agree on code interpretations.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

A potential buyer might want everything to current code as a negotiating point but you don't have to change anything, just move on to the next buyer.

I held a Wisconsin real estate brokers license from 1973 to about 2005, spent 35 years in the mortgage business and watched 10's of thousands of home sales go by.

Most people, including myself until I found this Forum, don't really understand what "code compliance" really is. For new construction or substantial rehab ... its probably pretty straightforward and easier (note "easier" and not "easy") to understand.

But for an existing house ... many things are "grandfathered" back to when the house was built or to when certain changes were made. Some municipalities codify the NEC for example ... some municipalities go beyond it ... and some (albeit smaller municipalities) are silent.

So when a buyer or RE agent says "we'd like to ascertain that the house is code compliant" ... most of the time I don't think they know what they mean or are asking for.

If the house was built in the 1910's, has a 30 amp electrical service, had a gravity feed furnace in the basement, lead water pipes, is service by a sand point well, and no one really knows where the waste plumbing goes ... making it "code compliant" probably isn't a bad idea.

But if the house was built in the 1950s and 1960s "code compliance" probably isn't necessary ... other than to try to ascertain the house was "code compliant" when it was built.

Basically, I'm curious if there was any truth to my realtor's claim that a home inspection report has to go on the sellers disclosure?

This will likely vary from state to state. There could be case law, statutory law, or RE licensing agency regulations that mandates any and all inspections (regardless of who they were performed by, regardless of how valid they were) must be disclosed to potential buyers.

Or the state could be silent on the matter.

This is a darned if you do and darned if you don't.

If there is an erroneous, poorly done home inspection that isn't disclosed to a buyer and nothing happens ... no harm no foul. But even if the home inspection was junk and something happened, any good attorney will use the undisclosed inspection as leverage.

So where does this leave us. A poorly done home inspection with alleged erroneous problems and non-existent code "violations" could taint the subsequent sale of the house down the road. Which I believe is wrong.

If I were counselling a mortgage applicant about these issues I would try to put the buyers in a frame of mind to want things to be adequate and typical for the market without being substandard or putting their family at risk. For a modest sized house with gas heat, gas water heater, gas dryer, and limited electrical appliances .... 100amp should be fine ... in spite of "Uncle Harry" declaring they should NOT buy a house with less than 200amp service. Obviously extension codes for wiring and garden house for water supply lines are NOT acceptable under any circumstances.

 

[FullRaceMerc]

I misread the title & thought it said "Tampa Resistant Receptacles". I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Shiftless]

I misread the title & thought it said "Tampa Resistant Receptacles". I'll just leave it at that.

Many of us miss the guy. Hasn't posted in almost 4 months.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Many of us miss the guy. Hasn't posted in almost 4 months.

Who are u talking about?

 

[Shiftless]

Who are u talking about?

TampaGT07

 

[Norcal]

Many of us miss the guy. Hasn't posted in almost 4 months.

Anyone know the reason, or is it not for a open forum? If it is the latter, then leave it at that.

 

[SMKS]

Basically, I'm curious if there was any truth to my realtor's claim that a home inspection report has to go on the sellers disclosure?

The answer is no, but with some qualifications.

If a home inspection turned up a hidden problem you really didn't know about, then you probably should put it on the disclosure. If it's just something the potential buyer wants and is obvious, then no, it doesn't have to go on the disclosure.

For example, let's say the potential buyer had had a cam sent down the main sewer line as part of the inspection and found a major break that you didn't know about. The buyers then decide not to buy the house. If you then tried to hide the broken sewer line from the future buyers, you could be in trouble. In that case, you'd probably need to disclose a sewer issue you were aware of that wasn't obvious.

However, if a home inspector says "redo all this wiring so these two-prong outlets are three-prong outlets," that's not something you need to disclose. That's just something the buyer wanted you to change and it's an obvious thing any buyer could see.

 

[75gmck25]

When shopping for TR resistant receptacles at HD I found that the 15 amp TR were about the same price as the old type, but 20 amp TR receptacles were a couple dollars more expensive than non-TR receptacles. Its not a big cost overall, but there is a difference in price.

My reason for using 20 amp TR receptacles (15 amp receptacle is okay on a 20 amp circuit) is that I have quite a bit of the old 40's wiring (15 amp), and also quite a bit of new 12/2 wired receptacles. I have tried to use 20 amp receptacles on the new circuits just so I could remember which ones were rated for 20 amps when someone wants to plug in a high-current blow dryer, space heater, crock pot, or some other appliance that draws quite a bit.

Bruce

 

[exranger06]

If I'm replacing an outlet in my house, it's going to be TR outlet. It's what you're supposed to do by code, and I've never had any trouble plugging or unplugging things into them, so why not? Plus, with a 5 month old in the house who's only going to get more mobile and mischievous, I like that she can't stick anything into them.

 

[RocketScott]

If a 5 month old is wandering around my shop unsupervised tamper proof outlets are the last of my concerns.

 

[exranger06]

If a 5 month old is wandering around my shop unsupervised tamper proof outlets are the last of my concerns.

I'm not talking about the shop, I'm talking about every other room in the house. Bedrooms, living room, etc.

 

[Junkman]

I had a college roommate that liked to play with electric outlets. He was always trying to cook a hot dog with two nails and an electrical cord. More than once he got shocked, but that didn't deter him. He was so wild, that most would call him "out of control". After college, he just disappeared, never to be heard from again.

 

[jives]

May not be entirely relevant, but my electrical inspector made sure I had TR receptacles on all my garage outlets. This was new construction. The 20A TR receptacles, including the GFIs, cost me about an extra $40 in total.

 

[Fishplate]

I had my kitchen renovated...al new TR outlets. I can't tell the difference plugging things in between them and the old ones.

 

[Junkman]

I have never seen a tamper resistant receptacle. I learned about them first here, but I have never read exactly how they work. Can someone explain how this concept works?

 

[gungatim]

I have never seen a tamper resistant receptacle. I learned about them first here, but I have never read exactly how they work. Can someone explain how this concept works?

ditto. WTH is a TR receptacle? is it just the little plastic caps you shove in to keep guys like us (when we were kids) from sticking bobby pins in them??

 

[Norcal]

TR receptacles have shutters in the hot, & neutral, slots of the device in a attempt to keep the "little darlings" from putting objects in them & getting shocked.

 

[tyme2par4]

TR receptacles have shutters in the hot, & neutral, slots of the device in a attempt to keep the "little darlings" from putting objects in them & getting shocked.

The shutters have to be pushed at the same time in order to allow access. So if you are trying to plug something in at an angle, or 1 prong is longer than the other, then you would have difficulty.

 

[CJ7VFR]

ditto. WTH is a TR receptacle? is it just the little plastic caps you shove in to keep guys like us (when we were kids) from sticking bobby pins in them??

The little plastic pieces are inside the receptacle, covering the holes for the hot and neutral from the inside.

With the TR receptacles, you just push your plug into the outlet like normal, and the little plastic pieces move to one side, kind of like opening up a door, and let your plug make contact with the hot and neutral bus bars inside.

I have a few TR receptacles in my house, from different manufactures. I have found that some are pretty easy to put plugs into and some are kind of hard and require quite a bit of force to plug something in.

In theory, they are supposed to help keep foreign objects from being pushed into the receptacle. Whether they work or not I have no idea, nor the balls to bend up a paperclip and try to shove it into the hot side of the outlet!

Normally I just buy regular receptacles and the ones that need protecting I just plug in the little plastic caps and remove them when necessary.

Jim

 

[piratius]

If a 5 month old is wandering around my shop unsupervised tamper proof outlets are the last of my concerns.

This is possibly the most to-the-point single sentence about garage safety I've heard. It really won't matter if the outlets are Tamper resistant or not, or if there's a GFCI on every branch circuit or not. If a kid (or irresponsible adult!) is in the shop unsupervised (and untrained in shop safety), there's going to be trouble. Most of us have tons tools in the shop (plugged in or not) that have sharp edges, or are heavy enough to cause serious damage if it landed on your head. Many of us also probably have stuff all over the floors - sharp corners/edges from cutting & welding projects, loose nails/staples from wiring, wood splinters, etc. Don't even get me started with solvents, paints, and all that fun stuff!