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Tankless Water heaters, yeah or nah?

Showkey

"MEMBER EMERITUS"
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
8,638
Location
Wausau WI
^^^^^^^^. Sorry but why is it guys selling these things are the only ones saying they save money ? Especially with the crazy numbers on the installed price with meter upgrades , gas line changes.

Considering my current NG cost on a 50 gallon tank heater is $8.00 to $10.00 per month......a tankless if saves any on the bill....... it can’t save enough to ever pay for itself.

Plus the tank system has gravity recir loop that allows for instant hot water at every faucet.
Zero maintainance in the last 5 years, DIY install.
 
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Git

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
6,894
Location
S Cal
Is the meter and gas line sized to meet the tankless ? 1/2” line is adequate to run a 200k unit. This is where others have found the install cost to go up to $500-$3000 extra.

You likely will not save on the operating cost, especially with the recir system.

Depending on your use habits, water, sewer and gas cost may actually go up.

Depending on water quality maintainance cost might go up substantially.

We have a small, in ground spa that has a 400k heater so the meter was upgraded when we installed it. The gas line to the water heater is actually 3/4" and drops to 1/2" just before the flex line, so we should be good.

We have good water, or I wouldn't think our current water heater would have lasted this long (16 years) without problems

I don't like paying people to do things that I can do. And usually, I believe I can do the job better. I don't believe I would have a problem installing either type of water heater, I just don't really want to wrestle around with a 260 lb, 75-gallon tank. And I get more storage space in my garage. So after getting a couple of estimates, it looks like I would be paying $2,500 to $3,000 for a Bradford White 75 gallon installed or I can install a top of the line Tankless for around $2k
 

Showkey

"MEMBER EMERITUS"
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
8,638
Location
Wausau WI
^^^^^^^^^Agree, DIY install is not rocket science........but.........some tankless companies void the warranty on DIY installs. Reported on the forum multiple times. Some manufacturers limit tankless parts sales to DIY repair.

Many DIY are not willing or able to do gas line upgrades. Then there’s the permit issues, some care about this.

As far as the meter it’s the total fuel load calculation that determines the meter size, line size and pressure. So that 400k heater and other appliances plus 200k water heater often tips the scale. The utility does not usually allow you to size the meter and lines with the idea I won’t be running both high use devices at the same time.
 

sennister

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
Messages
45
Location
Twin Cities, MN
We put one in 3 years ago. We are on Natural Gas and Private Well.

Would I do it again... Heck Yeah... I love it.

A couple things to note. If you have a traditional (Electric, LP or NG) and it fails. Replace it with another traditional water heater. If you want to make the switch the time to do so isn't when you don't have hot water. It takes a lot of planning. Things like how hot do you want your water. Meaning what is the point of use that you needs water the hottest? Shower, laundry, kitchen or garage? You then need to look at what your cold water temp is. Preferably in the winter. That is a bigger deal for those of us up north than down south. Those in warmer climates can get by with a much smaller tankless system. Your current traditional water heater is positioned not based on point of use but on where they can physically fit that beast. Does it make sense to put a tankless unit there or would you be better off moving it closer to your point of use? Afterall, closer to your point of use means it will cut down on the time until you get hot water and that waste. That is unless you get into re-circulation pumps and ****. Do you need a bigger gas supply line? I looked at electric until I found out in sizing that it would take 3 x 60A circuits to supply power and we only have 150A service and still need to run the well and it would be nice to not have to shower in the dark. You also need to figure out how much flow you need and the delta (change in temp from cold to hot) to size the system based on needs. We did have to upgrade the supply line into the house from 1/2 copper to 1" black pipe. The meter was fine. We are a little over the rating but not everything runs at once.

I read a lot about these before pulling the trigger. I read a lot of complaints about can't get hot water in a shower and low volume. We did our install in conjunction with a remodel of our main bath, more on how that comes into play later. Where some of the efficiency comes from is why heat water to 150F when you are just then cooling it back off to 105F by mixing in cold water to take a shower? You set the water heater at the temp that you want. Ours is set to 122F. If I need to I can ramp it up with a remote display. It is rare. Some people with the shower complaints are either used to setting the mixing valve at a certain position when they used to have 150F water coming in and find it too cold. Well yeah, you had to have the water heated to 150 to give you more capacity. You don't have capacity issues anymore. If things are set right you should be running 100% hot water and mixing in little to no cold. There is the first problem. Many integrated mixing valves (because of safety) always mix in some cold. That is why we are set to 122F. I like 110F showers from time to time. The other issue is if your hot water supply line to a large volume use point is big enough. Is that hot water line to the shower only 1/2". That was fine when you were running a 50/50 mix of hot/cold water. Now you might find your flow too low. As I mentioned we did the water heater in conjunction with a bathroom remodel. The shower was gutted as part of this and I have a 1" hot water line going to the shower. I still have to mix in a little cold because of the design of my mixing valve but I have no issues with running the shower head, cloud head and body sprayers all at the same time at 110F.

I will say they are not for everyone. We love it. With 2 kids one a teenage daughter, we never have to time showers anymore to make sure we are not going to run out. Have never had to rush through a shower. Any savings gained from more efficiency are probably eaten up by longer showers. What will the pay off be? In terms of $$ I don't care. In terms of happiness with the shower, the first time the entire family is getting ready for going out and everyone needs to take showers.
 
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u3b3rg33k

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
4,048
We put one in 3 years ago. We are on Natural Gas and Private Well.

Would I do it again... Heck Yeah... I love it.

A couple things to note. If you have a traditional (Electric, LP or NG) and it fails. Replace it with another traditional water heater. If you want to make the switch the time to do so isn't when you don't have hot water. It takes a lot of planning. Things like how hot do you want your water. Meaning what is the point of use that you needs water the hottest? Shower, laundry, kitchen or garage? You then need to look at what your cold water temp is. Preferably in the winter. That is a bigger deal for those of us up north than down south. Those in warmer climates can get by with a much smaller tankless system. Your current traditional water heater is positioned not based on point of use but on where they can physically fit that beast. Does it make sense to put a tankless unit there or would you be better off moving it closer to your point of use? Afterall, closer to your point of use means it will cut down on the time until you get hot water and that waste. That is unless you get into re-circulation pumps and ****. Do you need a bigger gas supply line? I looked at electric until I found out in sizing that it would take 3 x 60A circuits to supply power and we only have 150A service and still need to run the well and it would be nice to not have to shower in the dark. You also need to figure out how much flow you need and the delta (change in temp from cold to hot) to size the system based on needs. We did have to upgrade the supply line into the house from 1/2 copper to 1" black pipe. The meter was fine. We are a little over the rating but not everything runs at once.

I read a lot about these before pulling the trigger. I read a lot of complaints about can't get hot water in a shower and low volume. We did our install in conjunction with a remodel of our main bath, more on how that comes into play later. Where some of the efficiency comes from is why heat water to 150F when you are just then cooling it back off to 105F by mixing in cold water to take a shower? You set the water heater at the temp that you want. Ours is set to 122F. If I need to I can ramp it up with a remote display. It is rare. Some people with the shower complaints are either used to setting the mixing valve at a certain position when they used to have 150F water coming in and find it too cold. Well yeah, you had to have the water heated to 150 to give you more capacity. You don't have capacity issues anymore. If things are set right you should be running 100% hot water and mixing in little to no cold. There is the first problem. Many integrated mixing valves (because of safety) always mix in some cold. That is why we are set to 122F. I like 110F showers from time to time. The other issue is if your hot water supply line to a large volume use point is big enough. Is that hot water line to the shower only 1/2". That was fine when you were running a 50/50 mix of hot/cold water. Now you might find your flow too low. As I mentioned we did the water heater in conjunction with a bathroom remodel. The shower was gutted as part of this and I have a 1" hot water line going to the shower. I still have to mix in a little cold because of the design of my mixing valve but I have no issues with running the shower head, cloud head and body sprayers all at the same time at 110F.

I will say they are not for everyone. We love it. With 2 kids one a teenage daughter, we never have to time showers anymore to make sure we are not going to run out. Have never had to rush through a shower. Any savings gained from more efficiency are probably eaten up by longer showers. What will the pay off be? In terms of $$ I don't care. In terms of happiness with the shower, the first time the entire family is getting ready for going out and everyone needs to take showers.

I helped a friend set one up, he ended up setting it at 125F (default is 120F) and was happy. I'd bet most of the people with 1/2" who have issues (and don't have galvanized pipe) actually have a valve issue, not a flow issue. 1/2" copper/pex should be more than adequate to flow 2.5GPM.
 

Jim greengo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,415
Location
Behind my house
I bought a 24kw tankless electric water heater from home depot for $324. I spent $30 on three breakers, $40 on 6 gauge wire, and $20 on conduit. I was able to re use the PEX tubing from my old tank water heater. I installed it myself. Total ~$415.

If you dont want to DIY the install, then expect to pay an electrician at least $300-500 (or more if your WH is far away from your breaker panel, 6 guage wire is $$$). If your main panel is out of space for the additional breakers or less than 120AMPs then add another 1-3k for install cost for an upgrade to your panel.

I agree its expensive if you pay to have it installed then the costs can anywhere from expensive to astronomical. DIY is very easy if you have the space in your panel and its close to your panel.

I have nat gas in my house, and went with an electric unit because I only pay .12c per KWH. Natural gas tankless water heaters also cost significantly more than electric ones.
Let's see a picture of your install.
 

mikec35

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
1,258
Location
NC
I purchased a house with one already installed, running off propane. I like everything about it, except it takes 30 seconds for warm water to reach the kitchen sink. I usually run the hot water at the kitchen sink prior to turning on the diswasher. Other than wishing there was some sort of recirculating pump setup to get warm water to the individual taps I am very happy with it. It was placed in a downstairs bedroom closet so that could be an issue if someone was sleeping in the room and hot water was being used as it is somewhat noisy.
 

Dureault_s

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Messages
20
I live in central Canada (cold as balls) and my ecosmart 27 elec tankless pumps all the hot water I need no matter how cold my inlet water has been. It has adjustable outlet temp with just a dial which is nice. Only maybe 6” deep looks very nice on the shop wall feeds pressure washer no prob I’m very happy. Maybe 900$ into it tho but I’ll be switching the house when my tank goes. No matter what you have you have to drain the cold water out of lines before you get hot water unless you have a circulator


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

MartBella

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
8
Location
Chester
Just a quick not of caution with using a Marey or any other tankless water heater; while these units may be UL approved, THEY ARE NOT RVIA APPROVED FOR USE IN A RECREATIONAL VEHICLE! This has been thoroughly discussed in numerous other threads on the topic.

This means that for any problems like water leaks, blowouts or even fires, your insurance company will disavow coverage of the incident due to your use of an un-approved RV appliance. The Marey (and others) are made for residential use and not specifically for RV use. This makes a huge difference, as is shown in the pricing.

Whenever dealing with LP appliances, it is always better to err on the side of caution. There is a reason why RVIA approved tankless water heaters cost a bit more than $150! It's your life and well-being.........
 
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