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Tankless water heaters

karoc

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
2,006
Location
Hemphill Tx
I have 15 year old Rinnai's on both my main house and guest house. I have had no issues with either one. The homes were originally built with them so I can not compare to a tank type. They are both outdoor, gas fired. The main house has a recirc line that was put in at time of construction. Grundfos pump is controlled by Alexa routine, turns on pump on voice command when waking up and giving news and weather for the day. Voice on demand at any other time. Granny unit at 850 sq ft does not use recirc.

I am on city water and flush units about every two years. Make sure units have, or plumber provides, isolation valves to make flushing easier. My Granny unit did not have them and Jackfire sent me some which I installed. Thanks again Jack!
I sure do want to install my tankless outside but afraid it will freeze when temp drops below freezing. See your in California so guess freezing not issue. I need research the circulating line, I don’t know benefits of having one
 
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2Fast

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
248
Location
Southwest
I sure do want to install my tankless outside but afraid it will freeze when temp drops below freezing. See your in California so guess freezing not issue. I need research the circulating line, I don’t know benefits of having one
A dedicated recirculation line simply returns the colder water that is in the line, back to the water heater (tankless or conventional). This prevents wasting water while you're waiting at the faucet for the hot water to heat up.

Another option is to install a 'valve' at a sink that is furthest away from your water heater. It ties the hot water line to the cold water line until the water in the hot line reaches a certain temperature and then the valve closes the connection.

Once we activate the recirc pump, we know that in a couple of minutes the water coming out of any hot water faucet will be HOT.

Navien version: https://www.navieninc.com/accessories/navicirc

NavCirc.jpg
 

member13

New member
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Messages
1
Location
wi
I have the Rannai with built the built in pump for circulation. We have the dedicated return loop. Installed my self with no issues. Also got the wifi controller with app to set times for circulation which is really nice. If you are going to circulate, I recommend insulation on the supply line and on a dedicated return line. More than likely, you will need an expansion tank to control for high line pressure.
 
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Jackfre

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Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
4,411
Location
N CA
In choosing how to go about this another thing to look at is the piping lay-out. I can deal with a wait for hot water to the shower or lavs but what drives me nuts is waiting at the kitchen sink. Much of the problem is that while we have reduced the flow volume of the faucets we have not changed codes related to pipe sizes. I have suggested that when a tankless is put into a house replacing a tank the first thing to do is find the best location for the new unit which may not be where the original was. If you can re-locate yoou may not need re-circ. Back to pipe size. If you look at the cross section diameter of pipe respectively 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 & 1” it is .11, .20, .44 & .78 sq in. That directly equates to volume of water to move before hot water arrives. The kitchen being the source of frustration for many customers and myself I have solved flow problems by running a 3/8 pex line direct to the kitchen. It may be on the same route as the probable 3/4” main, but with 1/4 the vol. You can’t re-pipe the whole house probably, or don’t want to, but compare the current lay-out and give a thought to pipe volume and how to get over it.
 

Two Pump Chump

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Messages
106
Location
N CA
Are they really expensive to operate? What, a few dollars per year? How many years would it take to pay for any upgrade?

I feel like the search for perfect efficiency has gone too far, and people (and the government) aren't really doing the math. It's turning into a version of fuel efficiency regulations where we will all have 99% efficient appliances but everything will cost 10x as much and last half as long and our houses look like something from the movie Brazil.

Here is Sacramento PG&e is $0.38/kWh. Yes, that would be expensive to operate. In rural Idaho, which imports all its power, the rate is $0.08/kWh. Anyways . . . . ..
 

My Old Tools

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
5,439
Location
Hamrick Lake, TX
Had two Rinnai on propane in the last house. Ran them 10 years. Descaled once with vinegar and a Harbor Freight pump. Only problem we ever had was when we changed out a shower head. It would shut down and get cold in the middle of the shower. Finally figured out the new head didn't flow enough to keep it going. Simple fix.

New house has two Navien with recirculating tanks for instant hot water. The only issue was the plumber had a heart attack mid way through our remodel. The new plumber didn't know they hadn't been converted to propane. That caused excessive CO2 and eventually damaged one of the combustion chambers. Otherwise they have been perfect for 6 years.

Yes, they are great when you want extended "play time" in the shower.
 
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