Tapping into well pump wire to feed heat tape?

[tlmartin84]

At my well head the line is split and nutted off from installation.

I need to run some heat tape on a line inside my shop through winter to keep it from freezing.

Is there a constant "hot" 120V lead to the pump that I could tie into to wire in a temporary pigtail to plug an extension cord into?

Or are both leads of the 240V system dead until the switch kicks on?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Problem is, its doubtful you have a neutral. You need a neutral to derive 120v from the circuit. You probably have two hots and a ground. The well has no need for the neutral.

I made the mistake of running a 10/2 w/grd UF to a well for a neighbor. Later we needed 120v for heat in the little dog house sized well house. I ended up tapping off the hot at the pressure switch (constant hot coming into the switch) and installing a NEMA 6-15 connector and then took two porcelain light sockets and mounted them to a 2x6 section and wired them in series and put a short cord on them, with a NEMA 6-15 plug. I told her to always use two identical light bulbs, and if one burned out, change them both, no matter what.

Charles

 

[The mean fish]

Just pick up some 240V light bulbs.

http://www.buylighting.com/40-Watt-240-Volt-A15-Bulb-Appliance-Size-p/40a15230v.htm

 

[The mean fish]

You can even buy 240V heat tape by the foot.

https://www.platt.com/search.aspx?q=raychem+240+volt+heat+tape

 

[tlmartin84]

Anyway to run that through a normal extension cord?

I have to get it 100' from the well to where I need the tape??

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Where is your pressure switch? Current from the breaker flows to the pressure switch, and then to the pump.

If you do decide to use an extension cord (which will work fine if heavy enough for the load involved) please change out the ends on it to proper 240v ends, such as NEMA 6-15 or 6-20 connectors and plugs.

Charles

 

[The mean fish]

Charles is 100% dead on. Put a 240V twist lock outlet on the power coming into your pressure switch which should always be hot. Make up a 240V extension cord and run it to some 240V heat tape. Depending on how much of it you plan to use you might be able to get away with a normal 12 gauge cord with some twist lock ends put on it.

What are you trying to keep unfrozen 100' away from your water well?

 

[tlmartin84]

My pressure switch/tank is at my house, 150' away is my well, 100' from that is my new shop that has an exposed stub (going to be exposed through winter until I get the shop enclosed).

I was hoping to temporarily insulate and heat the stub to eliminate freezing issues until spring. Only other option is to dig up the line and insert a shutoff valve, not a bad idea I just don't really want to do it for several reasons. If I can't tie into the power source at the well then I will have to put the valve in and drain the line.

So are you saying I have a hot lead from the switch to the pump, or the only hot lead is at the switch (running from breaker box to it). If I have to go back to the switch it will kill this idea...............

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The always hot lead only goes as far as the pressure switch. The pressure switch turns the pump on and off, thus switching the pump power on and off, so no, the only time the wires at the well are hot is when the pump is running, given your description of the installation.

Charles

 

[tlmartin84]

That is what I needed to know, Thank You!

 

[Zeke]

Jeez, the difficulty of this grows with each thread. Why not build a little enclosure around the stub up and put a 5 gal propane tank next to it with a pilot light inside? Or just run some 100' 16 ga cords from the house to the enclosure. Incandescent lights don't mind voltage drop.

 

[tlmartin84]

Well Zeke, obviously running the power cords from the house is the EASIEST thing to do. However they run across a driveway which will be getting plowed multiple times, and I don't want to have to deal with finding the cords to unhook them everytime I plow or run the risk of tearing them.

The reason I asked about the well leads is they are on the same side of the drive as the building. Would have been a quick easy fix.

 

[sublimate]

If you have a neutral wire out at your pump you may be in good shape.
Most 240v pressure switches I've seen only switch one leg, so the other leg is always hot.
So if you do have a neutral you can get 120v between it and the always hot leg.
But they may not have run a neutral since it wasn't needed for the pump, so you'll have to check. If there are 4 wires you're good, 3 wires not so much.

 

[Zeke]

Well Zeke, obviously running the power cords from the house is the EASIEST thing to do. However they run across a driveway which will be getting plowed multiple times, and I don't want to have to deal with finding the cords to unhook them everytime I plow or run the risk of tearing them.

The reason I asked about the well leads is they are on the same side of the drive as the building. Would have been a quick easy fix.

I guess you glossed over the propane idea. No cords. Hell, you might even find a little solar panel that will charge a battery enough to run a few watts. I'm just giving you alternative ideas to having to do what is best and that is to install the valve and drain the pipe.

 

[sublimate]

If you have a neutral wire out at your pump you may be in good shape.
Most 240v pressure switches I've seen only switch one leg, so the other leg is always hot.
So if you do have a neutral you can get 120v between it and the always hot leg.
But they may not have run a neutral since it wasn't needed for the pump, so you'll have to check. If there are 4 wires you're good, 3 wires not so much.

BTW, if you find you do have an always hot leg but no neutral...


...well, I'll just leave this here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'm a little confused...your first post said you need to run a heat tape on a line inside your shop, but are you talking about putting heat tape on the wellhead (which I assume is outdoors) or inside the building?

 

[tlmartin84]

The wellhead is my closest source of power to the building.

 

[tlmartin84]

I guess you glossed over the propane idea. No cords. Hell, you might even find a little solar panel that will charge a battery enough to run a few watts. I'm just giving you alternative ideas to having to do what is best and that is to install the valve and drain the pipe.

I do have a spare 12V car battery, not sure what kind of heat source I could find.

 

[sublimate]

A car battery has a total energy capacity of something like 2,000 BTU.
A decent amount of heat would empty that pretty quickly.

 

[Fishplate]

We used a deep-cycle battery and a small 12V light bulb to keep the frost off of some laser reflectors in the desert. I might be tempted to use some heavy insulation over a box, a small lamp, a battery and a HF solar panel. Depends on how cold you expect it to get. Sounds like you have snow, but what's the lowest temperature you see in the winter? And for how long?

 

[theoldwizard1]

I ended up tapping off the hot at the pressure switch (constant hot coming into the switch) and installing a NEMA 6-15 connector and then took two porcelain light sockets and mounted them to a 2x6 section and wired them in series and put a short cord on them, with a NEMA 6-15 plug. I told her to always use two identical light bulbs, and if one burned out, change them both, no matter what.

200-300 watt heater ! I like it !!

Critters don't like bright lights either.

 

[theoldwizard1]

We used a deep-cycle battery and a small 12V light bulb to keep the frost off of some laser reflectors in the desert. I might be tempted to use some heavy insulation over a box, a small lamp, a battery and a HF solar panel. Depends on how cold you expect it to get. Sounds like you have snow, but what's the lowest temperature you see in the winter? And for how long?

From http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261465

... and temps dip here to -10F to -20F

No 20-30 watt 12v DC bulb (1157 turn signal bulb; actual draw is 6+ amps) is not going to do much. 10 of these (cheap on eBay) might do the job, but then you are discharging the battery at 60+ amps.

A typical deep discharge 6V golf cart battery (so you need 2 of them) has a 225 amp-hour rating, so you should get between 3 and 4 hours out when connected to 10 - 1157 bulbs.

And you aren'y going to recharge 2 of thos deep discharge batteries with a HF solar panel !

 

[theoldwizard1]

... Only other option is to dig up the line and insert a shutoff valve, not a bad idea ...

Start digging before the ground freezes !

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If you have a neutral wire out at your pump you may be in good shape.
Most 240v pressure switches I've seen only switch one leg, so the other leg is always hot.
So if you do have a neutral you can get 120v between it and the always hot leg.
But they may not have run a neutral since it wasn't needed for the pump, so you'll have to check. If there are 4 wires you're good, 3 wires not so much.

Why would a 240v switch only switch one leg, unless it was half *** wired? Its a 240v switch so that doesnt make sense! Every pump ive worked on had both poles switched!