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Allan00

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I know there is a lot of knowledge in this forum so I'd love for somebody to help on this. I know the common consensus is to ignore the home center store products (trust me I get it) but what specifically is different between an 100% solids epoxy product sold by Lowe's/Home Depot vs some of the other 'professional' companies? Is the makeup of the product different somehow? Looking to learn...

(Keep in mind this is from the perspective of a DIY job for a home garage not an industrial or commercial setting)
 
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Stelzer

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Finally, a thread I can sink my teeth into. I've been painting now for 35 years, have owned my own business since '98, and I'm one of 6 Moderators on the world's largest professional painting forums, Painttalk.com My name their is the same here, so it's easy to confirm, just fyi.

Although there are a few products available at big box stores which aren't half bad, epoxy isn't one of them. The quality of resins & pigments are among the primary reasons, but there are others. HD uses rheology modifiers in some of their Behr paints to make it "feel thicker", which seems to appeal to the DIY'er, but you'd likely here most pros complain that it just causes drag and impedes flow & leveling. Another key point is that if, (God forbid), you have a product failure from using a big box store product, you're pretty much on your own, whereas having solid relationships with local paint stores means that they'll stand behind their products.

Most of the products I get from big box stores are primers, (BIN, Zinsser, Kilz, etc). The only exception is ReadySeal, which is my #1 favorite oil-based semi-trans stain, and can be found at some HD's & Lowes.

Sherwin Williams has some excellent commercial/industrial-grade epoxies that are infinitely better than HD or Lowes, as does Benjamin Moore, (especially their Corotech line).
 

Shea

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I know there is a lot of knowledge in this forum so I'd love for somebody to help on this. I know the common consensus is to ignore the home center store products (trust me I get it) but what specifically is different between an 100% solids epoxy product sold by Lowe's/Home Depot vs some of the other 'professional' companies? Is the makeup of the product different somehow? Looking to learn...

(Keep in mind this is from the perspective of a DIY job for a home garage not an industrial or commercial setting)
Do you have an example of the 100% solids epoxy product available from these stores? Most of the time, your answer is found within the technical data sheets for the products you are comparing.

The answer above is a great example of why home improvement centers are not the best resources for floor coating products. Selling high-performance commercial quality concrete coating materials requires experience and expertise in the field to properly help customers with their selection and application requirements. Home improvement centers cannot provide such experience and expertise. They can provide great help for many projects, but concrete floor coatings and sealers are not one of them. In addition, it would require too much customer service on their end to answer questions and handle potential issues. I can't begin to count the number of emails we receive from our readers who are looking for an answer to a coating problem due to the bad information they received from someone in the paint department at their local home improvement store.

Large home improvement retail chains prefer to sell easier-to-apply, lower-budget DIY floor coating kits. With the sheer volume of sales they have for such kits, it makes sense. They would much rather point the customer to Rust-Oleum customer service to deal with such issues.

We wrote an article about why home improvement centers can do more harm than good when it comes to concrete coatings.


Furthermore, the mass amount of sales for these lower-quality products is what creates mixed reviews for garage floor coatings and a bad reputation for coatings in general.

 

Stelzer

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Do you have an example of the 100% solids epoxy product available from these stores? Most of the time, your answer is found within the technical data sheets for the products you are comparing.

The answer above is a great example of why home improvement centers are not the best resources for floor coating products. Selling high-performance commercial quality concrete coating materials requires experience and expertise in the field to properly help customers with their selection and application requirements. Home improvement centers cannot provide such experience and expertise. They can provide great help for many projects, but concrete floor coatings and sealers are not one of them. In addition, it would require too much customer service on their end to answer questions and handle potential issues. I can't begin to count the number of emails we receive from our readers who are looking for an answer to a coating problem due to the bad information they received from someone in the paint department at their local home improvement store.

Large home improvement retail chains prefer to sell easier-to-apply, lower-budget DIY floor coating kits. With the sheer volume of sales they have for such kits, it makes sense. They would much rather point the customer to Rust-Oleum customer service to deal with such issues.

We wrote an article about why home improvement centers can do more harm than good when it comes to concrete coatings.


Furthermore, the mass amount of sales for these lower-quality products is what creates mixed reviews for garage floor coatings and a bad reputation for coatings in general.

From Sherwin Williams, ArmorSeal 700HS
From Benjamin Moore, Corotech V430

Plenty of others, but both of the above are far superior to anything sold at home centers.
Edit: Just realized the question wasn't directed at me, sorry. Oh well, I'll leave the suggestions up for those who may find it useful.
 
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FJ4FUN

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Besides the difference in the quality of the materials, which are vast, the low-budget stuff available at big box stores do not come with the quality customer support that you will receive from any of the vendors who participate here, including us... Coating a garage floor is not a casual undertaking, the only thing worse than an uncoated floor is a poorly coated floor ;)
 

Shea

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From Sherwin Williams, ArmorSeal 700HS
From Benjamin Moore, Corotech V430

Plenty of others, but both of the above are far superior to anything sold at home centers.
Edit: Just realized the question wasn't directed at me, sorry. Oh well, I'll leave the suggestions up for those who may find it useful.
Yes, I know what they have available. I was quoting the OP about what products he is referring to. :)
 

Shea

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Wow great responses - I really appreciate the info. I will not be going with a home center product.

The product I saw that caught my eye was the below but I'm thinking they are just trying to capitalize on the 100% solids claim.

Yeah, that product is fairly new. We believe it is being made for Stanley Black & Decker (Craftsman brand) by Rust-Oleum. We have yet to find data sheet info on the product. It appears to be the same epoxy (only tinted for color) as EpoxyShield Premium Clear Coat which is fairly new as well. It's a 100% solids epoxy that is applied very thin to achieve the higher coverage rates. We sent an email to Rust-Oleum asking for more information in regards to ratings. We haven't heard back yet.
 

Stelzer

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Yeah, that product is fairly new. We believe it is being made for Stanley Black & Decker (Craftsman brand) by Rust-Oleum. We have yet to find data sheet info on the product. It appears to be the same epoxy (only tinted for color) as EpoxyShield Premium Clear Coat which is fairly new as well. It's a 100% solids epoxy that is applied very thin to achieve the higher coverage rates. We sent an email to Rust-Oleum asking for more information in regards to ratings. We haven't heard back yet.
So, you're a writer for a garage floor website, correct? Are you an applicator as well?
 

thammel

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Want some practical experience results? I used rustoleum garage floor epoxy (epoxyshield) from Home Depot on one of my garages. I did this 19 years ago. It has not held up well. It is worn through in a number of places. This may not be a fair comparison but 5 years ago, I did my other garage with Armorpoxy - 3 layers, primer, color and clear coat, each a 2 part epoxy and 100% solids. It still looks like it was applied yesterday. There is no comparison between the two. Yes, the armorpoxy was more expensive, but well worth it.
 

Shea

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So, you're a writer for a garage floor website, correct? Are you an applicator as well?
That's correct. However, we do not sell or install garage flooring products. We have had quite a bit of application experience in the past though :p
 
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Stelzer

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The majority of failures of garage floor epoxies for DIY'ers can be attributed to insufficient prep, so whatever you do, whatever you use, spend plenty of time on the prep.
 
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Allan00

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@Stelzer My understanding is that grinding is the recommended prep - do you have and good details on what type of grinder or discs to use? My slab has some miscellaneous debris like paint overspray that would need to be removed so acid etch is out of the question.
 

FJ4FUN

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@Stelzer My understanding is that grinding is the recommended prep - do you have and good details on what type of grinder or discs to use? My slab has some miscellaneous debris like paint overspray that would need to be removed so acid etch is out of the question.
Our BondTite 1101 primer is a 100% solids formulation so we always recommend grinding to promote maximum soak. The type of grinder you rent largely depends on the size of your project, what is available to you locally, and your budget. Big box stores typically have the Edco single and dual head machines (avoid the single head machines, they're too small and light weight) If you have a SunBelt nearby, that's the way to go. SunBelt typically will have everything you need, we send a lot of our customers too them. For smaller jobs under under say, 600sf, the Edco twin head MagnaTrap will do you fine. It will take you a little longer and it's a bumpier ride but will cost you a lot less. For larger jobs step it up to one of their Lavina 21" planetary grinders. As far as tooling goes, medium/general purpose diamonds will usually be the call (and are typically the only ones available at big box rental departments), For harder concrete you will need softer tooling. This is where renting from a dedicated equipment rental yard will pay-off as they will have a larger selection of tooling and will advise you as to which you should use.

Always get an appropriately sized HEPA vac and make sure that the grinder shroud is present and in good working order (this is usually not an issue when renting from SunBelt but is almost always one when renting from any of the BigBox stores rental dept as the shrouds tend to get beat up...). Speaking of shrouds, make sure that whatever angle grinder you choose has one! If going the Harbor Freight route include one (or two...) of their universal shrouds. I say two because they're pretty fragile and tend to self destruct. For larger floors rent a good one with a built in shroud.

You will also need to make sure that you have sufficient amperage for whichever eq you plan to run, nothing is more frustrating than finding out your E-supply can't run the eq you just rented and brought home and now you have to run out and rent a genny as well! If you do need to step up too a Lavina type machine but don't have the juice to run it you may consider a propane unit if available. The added weight of the propane units will decrease the time spent grinding but they cost more. Also, make sure they include an appropriate extension cord, usually included free of charge, because using an under rated cord can/will damage the grinder. Last, but not least, be sure that they provide a floor wand for the vac! Trying to Frankenstein your shopvac floor attachment to the rental vac with duct tape and bailing wire is no fun.
 

kjanl

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Yeah, that product is fairly new. We believe it is being made for Stanley Black & Decker (Craftsman brand) by Rust-Oleum. We have yet to find data sheet info on the product. It appears to be the same epoxy (only tinted for color) as EpoxyShield Premium Clear Coat which is fairly new as well. It's a 100% solids epoxy that is applied very thin to achieve the higher coverage rates. We sent an email to Rust-Oleum asking for more information in regards to ratings. We haven't heard back yet.
I bought the product at a great price during a Lowe's flash sale. Figured it could always be returned if more info showed it wasn't legit. Reviews are great. I'm mainly a lurker on this awesome site, but I've learned a few things, and one is that 100% solids epoxy rules the roost for epoxy application. The finer points regarding the breakdown of 100% epoxies seem to be mainly addressed by the guys selling the stuff. The name brand matters around here. I won't get epoxy shield or other non-100% epoxies.

The product dries to 8mil thickness, not as thick as others, way thicker than epoxy shield. So....

1) Is 8mil thick enough for full rejection?

2) If not, can I pour the epoxy thicker? I have a tiny 1 car garage 200sqft, kit supposedly covers up to 500sqft. Will a thicker pour increase the dry thickness since it is 100%?

3) How do I handle the 4inch vertical parts surrounding the flat floor? Pot life is 45 minutes, so how do I epoxy and flake those vertical walls before my solution hardens up?

4) Since full refection is the goal, could I use a second kit to thicken the floor after the first one is cured, and then cast to rejection?

5) What to use for primer and top coat?

Thanks
-confused in Delaware
 

Garage Flooring

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Wow looks like this post is back from the dead :)

First and foremost, let me say that the biggest difference is not in the product (that is huge too) the biggest difference is when you need help and you call me (you would have my cell like every customer) or Scotty at Legacy or likely any of the other vendors..... Most if not all of us have walked hundreds, maybe thousands of customers through the process. In fact we encourage customers to set a time with me before they start. Now, try getting that from the [great] guy or gal in the orange or blue apron. I am certain they mean well. They just don't have the training.

Now lets talk about the product. I got a lot of reactions a couple of years ago when I coined a phrase about homecenter products. The quality of the product you receive is inversely proportionate to the appearance of the packaging. Meaning if it comes in a pretty box, it likely *****.

Why and what *****? It is not always the quality of the product, although that is often the case. In many cases it is about the way the product is sold. Two cans of epoxy for $99 as a two car kit. You start looking at tech documents instead of sales documents and you realize you really need 6 and you also need primer and top coat and now you just spent more money than buying the right system in the first place.

Or maybe you are like my customer from last month who was told he did not need to prep his floor, then his floor failed and they said it was poor prep. Sent him two new cans as the remedy. What about the 2 days he lost.....
 

kjanl

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Ok, forget the product for now. I might not even use it.

How do I still address the everyday practical issues? Can you "overpour" the epoxy if your square footage falls short - i. e., too much product? How do address the full broadcast on the vertical floor borders, maybe 4 inches high with a lip on top? How can I protect the hole in the floor for where my utility sink legs screw directly into the concrete?
 

FJ4FUN

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Ok, forget the product for now. I might not even use it.

How do I still address the everyday practical issues? Can you "overpour" the epoxy if your square footage falls short - i. e., too much product? How do address the full broadcast on the vertical floor borders, maybe 4 inches high with a lip on top? How can I protect the hole in the floor for where my utility sink legs screw directly into the concrete?
For the epoxy primer/body/flood coat thicker is better. If you are going with urethane clear/topcoat you'll need to be more precise with the qty you apply, typically you don't want to exceed 7mils.

Full broadcast on vertical surfaces can be tricky but not impossible, just throw the flakes with some force. If you end up with some light spots and you can always cheat it by slamming some additional flakes into the flood coat/clear topcoat.

For the sink mounting holes thread some bolts into the mounting points way proud of the floor grade, wrap the exposed threads with packing tape and remove when everything is cured.
 

kjanl

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That's very helpful. I'm thinking about the speed at which I need to move to get it done. Can I use a paint brush on those areas vertical from the floor? Wondering if it'll be thick enough to hold the flakes.

I didn't realize that too thick isn't good for the urethane topcoat. I like to DIY, and I've learned a ton from reading everything posted. Hopefully I won't screw it up. Thanks a bunch!
 

FJ4FUN

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"Can I use a paint brush on those areas vertical from the floor? Wondering if it'll be thick enough to hold the flakes." Yes, you can but honestly, I discourage epoxing these curb walls and encourage going back afterwards and painting the curb walls in a solid color with a good masonry paint for a really clean look.
 

kjanl

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Now THAT'S a great idea. I can take that issue off of my 'hope I don't screw this up' list! Much appreciated.
 
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