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Telling Brake Fluid Apart: Dot3/4, Synthetic

NorDel Garage

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I did a search,with no luck, for a thread on an easy way to tell the difference if the

brake fluid in your system is conventional or synthetic. I need to bleed

my brakes and can't tell which type to add. It is a kit car so no owners

manual. Thanks.
 
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blazinPond

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Stick with manufacturer spec.
The required brake fluid is determined by your vehicle make/model/year.
I would suggest you review your owner's manual.
If you do not have one, you can likely google it.

I don't see how anyone can give advice other than that.
For me, it was an easy choice since i have high end brakes and don't want to take any chances.

For what's it worth, i use ATE, which is DOT4.
 

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NorDel Garage

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Thanks for the reply. As I stated, it is a kit car. There is NO owners manual.

I have heard that there is a way to tell what kind ( synthetic vs. non syn. ) based

brake fluid. Add water to see if it gets absorbed? Something like that.
 

sublimate

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DOT5 is the silicone one and is usually purple.

It's unlikely you have DOT5, but if you want to be sure, put a few drops in a jar with a few drops of water. If they mix then it's DOT 3/4. If they don't then it's DOT 5.
 

LS6 Tommy

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Don't even bother with anything silicone based if the vehicle sits undriven for any length of time. It's ****. It gels up and then you have to completely redo the whole system...

Tommy
 

redmondjp

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This is BS ^^^.
None of my antique cars have ever gelled up with DOT 5 or any customers cars either.

Leave it in for 10 years and then get back to me. Water still gets into the system and corrodes the snot out of stuff, regardless of the type of fluid that you have in the system. You're better off using normal fluid and changing it out every few years.

I did 3 or 4 vehicles with DOT5 back in the early 1990s. Never again. Now I use DOT3 and change it every few years.
 

J Persons

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In my opinion, it's actually a plus that DOT 3 or 4 absorbs moisture. By doing so, you can flush the moisture out of the system with a fluid change. Since DOT5 will not absorb moisture, the moisture will tend to collect at low points in the brake line system and corrode the lines, if they are regular steel lines. Additionally, since the moisture tends to puddle, it can quickly turn to steam if enough heat is present and that will cause a spongy pedal.
 

LS6 Tommy

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This is BS ^^^.
None of my antique cars have ever gelled up with DOT 5 or any customers cars either.

Not BS. It's been common knowledge in the industry for decades that DOT 5 is snake oil. It gels if added to a system that ever had DOT3/4 in it, even when used in a completely new system it allows moisture to collect in the calipers, where it causes vapor lock and system failure. It also causes increased piston wear. Proven general knowledge. To this end, many brake system manufacturers warranty is void if DOT 5 is used. It is not legal for almost all forms of racing.

You've just been lucky, like the guys using PVC for compressed air lines that "never had a problem YET".
I feel sorry for you when your customer's brake systems start failing. God forbid someone wrecks a car.

Give it time. After you have to replace an entire brake system you'll won't call it ********. Been there, done that. Multiple times...


If I sound overly harsh it's because this is a SERIOUS safety issue. I'm not singling you out.


Tommy
 
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c39er

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Leave it in for 10 years and then get back to me. Water still gets into the system and corrodes the snot out of stuff, regardless of the type of fluid that you have in the system. You're better off using normal fluid and changing it out every few years.

I did 3 or 4 vehicles with DOT5 back in the early 1990s. Never again. Now I use DOT3 and change it every few years.

I have left in in 2 of them for over 15 years. No issues. Drove one of them yesterday.
I do check the wheel cylinders every year too for leakage..safety.
 
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c39er

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I do agree DOT 5 will get old and should be flushed just as DOT 3/4 and 5.1 should every two years.
In reality though museum queens and lots of 30's/ 40's/50's cars hardly get driven...so the brake fluid regardless of type seldom gets changed until a brake issue causes inspection...usually a leak or first application brake pull.
I have dealt with this endlessly on vintage cars that do not get driven a lot and found DOT 3 or 4 systems most always have severely corroded or frozen wheel cylinders (moisture absorption)...
While DOT 5 system will more likely have fluid leakage ( smaller fluid molecules) yet no frozen wheel cylinders with some sludge behind W/cyl boots.
Driving vintage cars regularly with either type... glycol or silicone slows down moisture and severe corrosion in both systems.
This DOT 3/4 or 5 debate is endless...use what works for you.
 
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1233user

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I've been using DOT 5 silicone brake fluid in all my old cars for about 20 years and have had zero problems. All it takes is 1 time of regular DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid leaking out the back of a master cylinder and ruining the paint on a firewall to make you wish you used DOT 5 instead.
 

xyster101

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Your car probably takes 3or 4. Dot 3 had a lower biking point then 4. Most cars run that. I used to drive at the track and bolted the dot 3 fluid. Switched to ats blue and never had it happen again. On the street either 3 or 4.

Posted by my Galaxy S3. Sorry for typos
 

bwringer

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The answer is "yes".

Basically, all brake fluid is synthetic. The glycols in brake fluid are manufactured chemicals. Some brands put "synthetic" on the container in hopes you will somehow associate their brand with synthetic motor oil and become impressed enough to buy their brand. There's no way to tell what was written on the container, and it doesn't matter anyway.

All DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 fluids are glycol-based, mixable and chemically compatible. Personally, I would flush and fill with a quality DOT4 fluid and worry about something more important, like toenail fungus. (5.1 fluids can have super-high boiling points, but generally aren't good choices for street vehicles.)

If that answers the question, great.


Or was your question more along the lines of "How can I tell silicone based DOT 5 fluid from glycol based DOT 5.1/4/3 fluid?" (Both are synthetic chemicals.)

One test might be to add a few drops of water to a sample and mix. DOT 3/4/5.1 should absorb the water, and DOT 5 will not.

I can say that if your kit car's braking components were originally designed for a street vehicle, they were designed to use DOT 3 or 4 fluid. What some misguided past mechanic would have done is difficult to say -- you definitely do NOT want to mix DOT5 with the others.

Personally, I'd open the top of the master cylinder and take a sniff. Your nose is a pretty decent chemical analyzer, and if it has turned sorta brown like normal old brake fluid and if it smells sorta tangy like normal old brake fluid, then that's what it is.

Glycol-based DOT 3. 4. 5.1 fluid is required to be clear or amber (ATE had to take their blue fluid off the market a few years ago) and of course it turns brown as it absorbs moisture, as we all know.

Silicone-based DOT 5 fluid is supposed to be purple. It doesn't absorb water, but if the system is contaminated rust can form and cause discoloration. It also tends to turn amber or brown as it ages, so color isn't definitive.
 
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maxpower_hd

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Just buy a big bottle and flush out the whole system with it while your bleeding. That way you know what's in there when your done.

I don't bother with 5 myself.
 

redmondjp

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Just buy a big bottle and flush out the whole system with it while your bleeding. That way you know what's in there when your done.

I don't bother with 5 myself.

Exactly. If you have several vehicles, buy a 1-gallon container of DOT3 at Wally World and change them all out. I just did this on six vehicles this fall, so I'm good for a few years. Even changed out the fluid on the hydraulic clutch circuit on two of them at the same time.
 

ezzzzzzz

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Haha, the conversations a simple question can cause. For all the answers a couple are straight forward. Just pump new 3/4 fluid through until it flows clear and bubble free.
 

Gerald O

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The easiest way to tell what the system has been filled with is to take a sample and see if it will mix readily with water. If the water mixes easily then it's not DOT5.

You definitely do not want to swap one for the other simply by pumping a bunch through the system. It's impossible to get all the old fluid out that way, and any residual fluid will contaminate the other with bad consequences. It is best to never swap fluid types once a brake system has been used. I use DOT5 in my collector cars that have an entirely new brake system that has never seen fluid. Otherwise I stick with the fluid type that's been used.
 

nehog

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Leave it in for 10 years and then get back to me. Water still gets into the system and corrodes the snot out of stuff, regardless of the type of fluid that you have in the system. You're better off using normal fluid and changing it out every few years.

I did 3 or 4 vehicles with DOT5 back in the early 1990s. Never again. Now I use DOT3 and change it every few years.

Some people don't know the history of DOT-5, but it was developed for the military to allow them to store vehicles for extended periods of time, and then be able to place these vehicles back into service quickly and easily.

If water gets into your system, the problem is not DOT-5 or brake fluid at all, but instead is a problem with the sealing of the system.

We used DOT-5 in our non-ABS Hummers, it lasts many, many years.

FWIW: if you have ABS, do NOT use DOT-5 fluid: it is not compatible with ABS systems.
 

LS6 Tommy

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I have left in in 2 of them for over 15 years. No issues. Drove one of them yesterday.
I do check the wheel cylinders every year too for leakage..safety.


That is good practice, no matter what type of fluid you prefer.:thumbup:

Speaking of wheel cylinders (calipers and master cylinders, too), most systems designed for DOT 3/4 have EPDM seals, which some brands of DOT 5 break down. Another reason not to use DOT 5 in systems originally designed for DOT 3/4.

You seem pretty meticulous, so I'm sure your stuff is well cared for. Again, I'm not singling you out. Just posting info.

:beer:

Tommy
 

c39er

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No matter what fluid is used in a brake system... spring and fall or twice a year check it over.
Just a good safe practice.
 

nehog

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Every master cylinder has air in it above the fluid...

Tommy

The air above the fluid is minimal, and captive, and isolated from the atmosphere by a seal. In fact, if your brake master cylinder is properly filled, and the cover is properly installed, there is no or virtually no entrapped air.
 
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