Terminating Underground Romex

[RSET]

I had an electrical company unhook a 60 AMP panel in my now demolished barn. They coiled the cable and installed a temporary weatherproof panel on a mount. Now comes the issue...

Thinking all power was disconnected I proceeded to take out receptacles and switches and got shocked. Nothing serious.

Turns out there was a 20 amp 12 gauge Romex run from the house panel in a 1/2" PVC conduit.

Here's the question: Can I dig back a few feet from where the new shop's footing will be dug and terminate that live Romex (there is a light and receptacle in the house that need to remain live) and seal it off? I figure a can cut the PVC with circuit off and fit it with an end cap. Maybe fill the end cap with some type of non-conductive sealer. The Romex is cut and taped off now and has to be removed before the concrete form is prepared.

I don't want go under the house (pier and beam) for fear of brown recluse spiders and the unknown critters that may like it under there.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What is the color of the jacket?

And no you shouldnt leave this live buried in the ground. Good way to setup a shock potential.

This is a prime example of why code forbids more than one feed to a structure...

 

[RSET]

What is the color of the jacket?

And no you shouldnt leave this live buried in the ground. Good way to setup a shock potential.

This is a prime example of why code forbids more than one feed to a structure...

White. Looks like regular 12g Romex house wiring. I guess I'll get under the house and pull the wire back... assuming a can find it.

 

[Bretny]

Yes you need to go under the house and remove it back to the closest box/junction. Caping the conduit would/could just allow for water that got in to not get out. Thus making for an electrical gremlin or the breaker poping.

 

[MoonRise]

Actual NM-B ( aka 'Romex') is NOT approved for use underground or in 'wet' areas.

Conduit underground is a 'wet' area.

The 'underground cable' needs to be UF (underground feeder) or USE (underground service entrance) cable or individual THWN wires.

UF cable:

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/...duct-specifications/h14/hac/8854083502110.pdf

USE cable:

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/...duct-specifications/h0e/he3/8854083403806.pdf

THHN/THWN wire:

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/...duct-specifications/h08/h62/8854083633182.pdf

 

[MattT]

What they said on pulling the romex out of the pipe^^^^

And personally I'd then stub that conduit up into the new slab for CAT or fiber internet.

 

[malibu101]

What is the color of the jacket?

And no you shouldnt leave this live buried in the ground. Good way to setup a shock potential.

This is a prime example of why code forbids more than one feed to a structure...

I am NOT trying to be a wise *** or question what you said.
I'm just wondering and trying to learn.

Simple scenario like the OP has. I have a detached garage with a subpanel in it fed from the house. I have a 3-way switch in the house and one in the detached garage for an outside light on the garage. This lighting circuit is fed from the garage as it was most convenient at the time.

Is this legal? If not;How could you do this simple switch circuit?
Is the OP's code problem because the switch circuit was fed from the house?

Thanks for any explanation!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

White. Looks like regular 12g Romex house wiring. I guess I'll get under the house and pull the wire back... assuming a can find it.

Well Romex is a brand of NM-b wiring made by southwire.

NM-b is NOT rated or permitted for underground use so your title is misleading.

Someone screwed up.

UF-b is the correct non-metallic cable for use underground. it has a gray jacket.

But please dont leave it live in the ground. This is a really bad idea...

 

[Norcal]

Well Romex is a brand of NM-b wiring made by southwire.

NM-b is NOT rated or permitted for underground use so your title is misleading.

Someone screwed up.

UF-b is the correct non-metallic cable for use underground. it has a gray jacket.

The OP needs to read what is written on the cable jacket, not all UF was gray. The only safe way is to abandon it is to disconnect it at both ends.

 

[alfredeneuman]

What color is the PVC 'conduit'?

 

[Bert_]

Well Romex is a brand of NM-b wiring made by southwire.

NM-b is NOT rated or permitted for underground use so your title is misleading.

Someone screwed up.

UF-b is the correct non-metallic cable for use underground. it has a gray jacket.

The OP needs to read what is written on the cable jacket, not all UF was gray. The only safe way is to abandon it is to disconnect it at both ends.

^ This. NEW uf is grey, lots of white uf still out there. UF will be all plastic, romex has paper in it.

Find the other end and disconnect it. If you might reuse it in the future then seal the end of the wire with some heat shrink tubing, the kind with adhesive in it. You could do this and leave it live if for some reason you really can't disconnect it but I would much rather unhook it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The OP needs to read what is written on the cable jacket, not all UF was gray. The only safe way is to abandon it is to disconnect it at both ends.

interesting. Ive never seen white UF-b and ive worked on some old properties...

EDIT: fix your quotation html code. It it missing on the end and screwing up the quotes

 

[PCustoms]

interesting. Ive never seen white UF-b and ive worked on some old properties...

I've got a bunch, house built in 1985. Found it when I cut some back, it's a ***** to strip...

 

[mike93lx]

I am NOT trying to be a wise *** or question what you said.
I'm just wondering and trying to learn.

Simple scenario like the OP has. I have a detached garage with a subpanel in it fed from the house. I have a 3-way switch in the house and one in the detached garage for an outside light on the garage. This lighting circuit is fed from the garage as it was most convenient at the time.

Is this legal? If not;How could you do this simple switch circuit?
Is the OP's code problem because the switch circuit was fed from the house?

Thanks for any explanation!

No, not legal. Do it with wireless switches

 

[purplezr2]

interesting. Ive never seen white UF-b and ive worked on some old properties...

I believe this it what feeds my well which was done in 1994. Is white but otherwise seems the same as the grey stuff with all the wire being seperated by the jacket.

 

[Norcal]

interesting. Ive never seen white UF-b and ive worked on some old properties...

Probably plain old UF not UF-B, early 1960's UF could be found w/o a grounding conductor & if it did have one, it was a reduced size.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I am NOT trying to be a wise *** or question what you said.

I'm just wondering and trying to learn.

Simple scenario like the OP has. I have a detached garage with a subpanel in it fed from the house. I have a 3-way switch in the house and one in the detached garage for an outside light on the garage. This lighting circuit is fed from the garage as it was most convenient at the time.

your install is legal because code allows a light circuit as long as its fed from the garage.

Is this legal? If not, how could you do this simple switch circuit?

yes because its fed from the garage. if it was fed from the house it would not be up to code.

Is the OP's code problem because the switch circuit was fed from the house?

Thanks for any explanation!

well i didnt see anywhere where he said his circuit was for a garage light....

No, not legal. Do it with wireless switches

incorrect. code allows a 3 way light circuit as long as its fed from the garage panel.

 

[mike93lx]

incorrect. code allows a 3 way light circuit as long as its fed from the garage panel.

Ahh, thanks

 

[malibu101]

wyliesdiesels- THANKS for teaching me something.

 

[75gmck25]

If its old white UF-B you will know very quickly if you try to strip it. The UF-B is like two insulated UF wires embedded in an outside rubber jacket. You have to get through the outer rubber jacket to get to the wires you want to strip.

Bruce

 

[btdobie]

your install is legal because code allows a light circuit as long as its fed from the garage.



yes because its fed from the garage. if it was fed from the house it would not be up to code.



well i didnt see anywhere where he said his circuit was for a garage light....



incorrect. code allows a 3 way light circuit as long as its fed from the garage panel.

This.
I just want to add the logic behind it. As long as it is fed from the garage and the garage is a sub panel from the house service, cutting power to the house will also kill power to the light circuit.
On the other hand if you feed the circuit from the house then turn off the power to the garage that light circuit is still live in the garage leading to a situation like OP's

 

[ddawg16]

Side note....

I have never seen conduit underground that did NOT have water in it.....even PVC that was well sealed. It finds its way in....

 

[MoonRise]

Side note....

I have never seen conduit underground that did NOT have water in it.....even PVC that was well sealed. It finds its way in....

Which is why underground conduit is classed as a WET location.

Because it is.

OP, do you actually have NM (or NM-B) cable underground (conduit or not)?

No matter what, do NOT leave that line 'active'. Disconnect it at the 'source'!

 

[justsam]

Turns out there was a 20 amp 12 gauge Romex run from the house panel in a 1/2" PVC conduit.

If this is a circuit directly from the panel into conduit, just disconnect wiring from breaker and remove breaker.

 

[CJ7VFR]

interesting. Ive never seen white UF-b and ive worked on some old properties...

My fathers garage, which was built in 1987, has a single 12/2 UF-B cable going to it for power. The outer jacket is indeed white, and the lettering is green.

When we had to replace his stairs going up to the people door on the garage this year we unearthed this cable. I thought holy ****, what did they do, run regular 12 gauge NM-B to the garage?

Nope. After actually twisting it around to get access to the lettering, there it was, labeled every few feet in nice green lettering, including the wire size and temperature rating.

I do believe that sometime around the mid 2000's that the gray outer jacket was adopted as the standard color for all UF-B cable, along with the other colors like yellow for 12 gauge NM-B, white for 14 gauge NM-B and orange for 10 gauge NM-B and so on.

My house was built in 1955, and over the years the electrical has been added too and updated. The wiring came from many different manufacturers as well. There is white, yellow and even black sheathed 12 gauge NM-B. There is black, white and orange sheathed 10 gauge NM-B, and black, yellow and white sheathed 14 gauge NM-B.

Sometimes the only way to tell what is what is to look for the lettering on the outside of the jacket.

Jim