Terrible CFL's

[Grumpy365]

They complain about a CHL bring mercury into their home, but love their LCD monitors and TV's which also contain mercury.

You can praise or curse CFL's as much as you want, but this is a asinine statement.

I have dropped/ broken hundreds of bulbs over my life, and I have NEVER dropped / broken a single TV.

People don’t complain about the mercury AS LONG AS IT STAYS IN THE BULB the complaint is the Bio Hazard when you break the bulb.

(Here is one bit of personal advice, don’t try to make that argument in front of real people as opposed to the imaginary people here on the inerweb they will make fun of you)

 

[Addrock]

My point (one of them) is similar to Grumpy and others. I'll restate it CFLs aren't being recycled. I work at a hardware store part time, the CFLs go out 10,000 to 1 for recycling. They are being thrown away, landfilled (the mercury contained within each and every one of these is GOING to be a problem). Should someone be talking about this...yes. Yet we only about "energy vampires" from the stupid local and national news. Should we conserve, YES but in substantial, real impact ways.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Mercury is not a biohazard. It's not good, but..

A biological hazard, also known as a biohazard, is an organism or a by-product from an organism that is harmful or potentially harmful to other living things, primarily human beings. Common types of biological hazards include viruses, medical waste, or toxins that were created by a particular organism or microorganism. The "biohazard symbol" is a familiar sight in hospitals, and any object that carries it should be treated with extreme caution.

 

[ket-tek]

I don't mind the bulbs, but what I hate is my electric bill is $125 a month. I go out and spend $200 swapping every light bulb in the house over to CFL's, then the electric bill the next month is $125. WTF??

WTF is right? I wish my electric bill was only $125 a month! Mines like $400 a month, and I've got mostly cfl and 24v low voltage fixtures everywhere.

 

[Gary S]

Something for you young'uns to think about. As kids we played with mercury as a toy. Whenever the old thermometers or mercury switches got broken, we extracted all the mercury and played with it at home and school.
60 years later we are still alive and healthy. Yes, we will die someday, but not from the mercury we played with as children. And, you mercury scardy-cats will die too.

There isn't enough mercury in any florescent light to hurt anyone. You can fear them, or bad mouth them, but that doesn't change that simple fact. Mercury is a natural element in the earth, and is less harmful to your health than the radiation you get from your cell phone every day.

 

[jmh21586]

Remember you can't use just any CFL on lights you dim, dimmers will kill normal CLF's, when you buy them you'll find ones specifically listed as dimmer compatible.

TheGrooveking

SO they say. I have the "dimmable" ones in my can lights in the kitchen.

If you call going from a 45 watt light output to a 43 watt light output "dimmable".


In other words, they don't really dim much. My incandescents would go from really bright to barely on, which is what I like. Not the $10 a piece CFL's though.The light is ****** too.

 

[jmh21586]

WTF is right? I wish my electric bill was only $125 a month! Mines like $400 a month, and I've got mostly cfl and 24v low voltage fixtures everywhere.

I assume that every appliance you have is electric... or half your neighborhood is plugged into your outdoor sockets.

 

[ddawg16]

I have posted this before.....and will do so again.....

This is the source of the quote...
3 CFL Myths Busted

The benefits associated with using compact fluorescent bulbs are hardly a secret. Each CFL uses about 75% less energy than an incandescent bulb, lasts longer, and saves about $30 over the course of its lifetime.

For every benefit, though, it seems there is a compelling reason to avoid these energy efficient bulbs. In most circumstances, it's simply a case of mispercentions blown out of proportion.

Here are the facts behind three common myths:



Myth: Compact fluorescent bulbs are a major safety hazard because they contain mercury.

Fact: Yes, it's true that CFLs contain tiny amounts of mercury, and if a bulb breaks you will be exposed to the neurotoxin. But, just how dangerous is a broken bulb? Researchers at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory set out to answer that question. They compared how much exposure you'd get from breathing in the amount of mercury released from a broken CFL bulb to how much mercury you'd take in from eating Albacore tuna.

If you do a common sense job of cleaning up (open the windows, clean up, and remove the debris), then your mercury exposure would be the equivalent of taking a tiny nibble of tuna, according to Francis Rubinstein, a staff scientist at Berkeley Lab. What if you did the worst job possible, say closed all the doors and smashed the bulb with a hammer? It's still no big deal, says Rubinstein, who points out that it would be the equivalent of eating one can of tuna.



Myth: You don't really save energy by using compact fluorescent bulbs because they take so much energy to make and ship.

Fact: The amount of energy required to manufacture, transport, and dispose of an item is called "embodied energy." For a CFL, the embodied energy is about 4% of the bulb's total energy use, according to an essay published in LD+A, the magazine of the Illuminating Engineer Society, last December.

The scientists found that it takes about 1 to 2 kilowatt-hours of energy to make and ship a compact fluorescent bulb (even those made in China), but it saves at least 200 kilowatt-hours of energy over its lifetime. At the typical price of electricity, it costs about 25 cents worth of energy to make a fluorescent bulb, a trivial amount when you consider the tens of dollars of electricity saved over the life of a CFL, says Rubinstein, who co-authored the essay.


Myth: It's not worth it to replace your incandescent bulbs with more energy efficient lighting because you'll end up spending more on heating bills to make up for the lost heat thrown off by incandescent bulbs.

Fact: It's true that incandescent bulbs give off heat that can help to keep your home warm. But, Rubinstein points out that it's only a tiny amount. There are a number of factors that can impact the amount of money and energy you save by switching to CFLs (or other more efficient lighting).

If you live in a cold climate (in an insulated house), losing ambient heat from those old inefficient incandescent bulbs may increase your heating bill slightly, but you'll save more on overall energy costs because of the electricity you'll save on lighting. If you live in a warm climate, you might even rack up more savings since you won't need to use as much air conditioning. Rubinstein's bottom line: You're almost always going to save money when you replace an incandescent with a CFL, but you may not save quite as much during the heating season in a cold climate.

 

[jmh21586]

If CFL's were so great they wouldn't have needed to ban incandescents.

Just like if wind and solar were so great and cost effective they wouldn't need massive subsidies.



The whole better mouse trap thing. Great products sell themselves.

 

[Gary S]

If CFL's were so great they wouldn't have needed to ban incandescents.

And, the corollary to that might be, "If incandescents weren't so inefficient, they wouldn't need to be banned".

 

[jmh21586]

And, the corollary to that might be, "If incandescents weren't so inefficient, they wouldn't need to be banned".

Sorry, that analogy doesn't work.
Nice try though.

Who says something that is popular but inefficient NEEDS to be banned?

Let the consumer decide. If CFL's were so great people wouldn't buy incandescents, thus incandescents wouldn't be made.

Just like if solar and wind energy were so cost efficient and great, they wouldn't need to be subsidezed.

 

[Lotek]

They can pry my incandescent bulbs from my cold dead hand.

Actually the biggest problem I have with CFLs is that the ones available now are a kludge monkeyed together to fit existing sockets. .

Separate the ballast from the bulb, and design a fixture around it, I might be interested. But more likely, I will be waiting for LEDs.

 

[Notch1988]

I too love the light of my 23w 5000k CFL's in my garage. I have 18 of them and 12 of the 13w. However, they're all in recessed fixtures and I get tired of changing the 23w CFL's. In five years I have yet to replace a 13w CFL in the garage, but have probably changed all of the 23w's twice. The apparent intolerance to heat is the only thing keeping me from trying higher wattage bulbs out there.

 

[ddawg16]

They can pry my incandescent bulbs from my cold dead hand.

Actually the biggest problem I have with CFLs is that the ones available now are a kludge monkeyed together to fit existing sockets. .

Separate the ballast from the bulb, and design a fixture around it, I might be interested. But more likely, I will be waiting for LEDs.

mmmmmm....they have had those for years.....that is what the CFL's in my kitchen are....pin style....the ballast is built into the fixture.

Basically, there are two types of fixtures.....Edison sockets and Pin style...

FYI...when doing new construction....one should use the pin style....some cities will have issues with new construction using Edison sockets.

 

[Norcal]

mmmmmm....they have had those for years.....that is what the CFL's in my kitchen are....pin style....the ballast is built into the fixture.

Basically, there are two types of fixtures.....Edison sockets and Pin style...

FYI...when doing new construction....one should use the pin style....some cities will have issues with new construction using Edison sockets.

In California you have Title 24, State energy codes which apply to all new contruction & remodeling, which mandates "energy efficient" lighting & controls.

 

[VHF]

When incandescent bulbs are banned, how are people going to keep their pump houses from freezing?

More importanly, how are little girls going to make brownies in their Easy-Bake ovens?

 

[jeffj78]

I like the CFL's - they have saved us $$$ compared to the old bulbs. The only thing I don't like is that I cannot use them on the outside fixtures with a timer. For some reason they don't like timers - they illuminate but flicker like crazy.

 

[Jack Olsen]

WOW.
They both are on sensors. Garage door light has the floor trip, obviously and the other is on an inside motion sensor when you walk in the door.

Learn something new every day.

Almost all my CFLs are on motion-triggered circuits. I haven't had any burn out yet, and some of them have been in there for years.

 

[sneezer41]

>>>>>>>> If CFL's were so great they wouldn't have needed to ban incandescents.

Just like if wind and solar were so great and cost effective they wouldn't need massive subsidies.



The whole better mouse trap thing. Great products sell themselves


<<<<<<<<<<<
all untrue

First, if the user bought all bulbs, or one was required to pay for the energy at time of purchase, no one would buy incandescents, except to heat the pump house.

wind and solar require subsidies because the variable cost of energy can eliminate a project, the threat of this prevents any from starting. Additionally society at large not having to have another fossil fuel powered electric plant is something 'we' want which is not something the profit making entity cares about.

CAFE is a great example of a regulation that works. The failure to increase CAFE in the late 80's left us with hordes of SUV's that continue to guzzle gas and keep the cost of petroleum high.

CAFE plateaued in 1987. Look at what happened to gas prices

http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html

http://www.sightline.org/images/blog-2008/Mileage-horsepower-EPA-600.gif

second graph is weird, shows economy increase stop in oh, 1988, then power goes up

Long term vs short term thinking.

They continue to sell lots of 'bad' mousetraps. Mousetraps don't cost everyone money. Bad light bulbs do.

I have some led's, they are ok, I only pay for them for the small fixtures. with PAR bulbs

Newer dimmables are better, cold cathode ones are better, dimmable led are probably going to be ok, but might not dim that much either

I just buy smaller bulbs......

As a side note, I would not have banned anything, just tax them, make users pay 'true cost'.

 

[red]

>>>>>>>> If CFL's were so great they wouldn't have needed to ban incandescents.

Just like if wind and solar were so great and cost effective they wouldn't need massive subsidies.



The whole better mouse trap thing. Great products sell themselves


<<<<<<<<<<<
all untrue

First, if the user bought all bulbs, or one was required to pay for the energy at time of purchase, no one would buy incandescents, except to heat the pump house.

wind and solar require subsidies because the variable cost of energy can eliminate a project, the threat of this prevents any from starting. Additionally society at large not having to have another fossil fuel powered electric plant is something 'we' want which is not something the profit making entity cares about.

CAFE is a great example of a regulation that works. The failure to increase CAFE in the late 80's left us with hordes of SUV's that continue to guzzle gas and keep the cost of petroleum high.

CAFE plateaued in 1987. Look at what happened to gas prices

http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html

http://www.sightline.org/images/blog-2008/Mileage-horsepower-EPA-600.gif

second graph is weird, shows economy increase stop in oh, 1988, then power goes up

Long term vs short term thinking.

They continue to sell lots of 'bad' mousetraps. Mousetraps don't cost everyone money. Bad light bulbs do.

I have some led's, they are ok, I only pay for them for the small fixtures. with PAR bulbs

Newer dimmables are better, cold cathode ones are better, dimmable led are probably going to be ok, but might not dim that much either

I just buy smaller bulbs......

As a side note, I would not have banned anything, just tax them, make users pay 'true cost'.

All valid points, except for every "fossil" fuel plant we don't build (or use) China is building two. Found it ironic that California, which is crazy about pollution and energy (for good reason) is now importing pollution from China. Free of course. What is a shame is all the oil we have here and we continue to send out money to countries that hate us.

 

[ddawg16]

If CFL's were so great they wouldn't have needed to ban incandescents.

Just like if wind and solar were so great and cost effective they wouldn't need massive subsidies.



The whole better mouse trap thing. Great products sell themselves.

The assumption there is that the consumer is smart....but as some of these posts have shown.....some are just set in their ways and will not change unless forced to do so.....it's kind of like trying to educate some people on the healt benifits, or lack of, with some foods...

 

[jmh21586]

The assumption there is that the consumer is smart....but as some of these posts have shown.....some are just set in their ways and will not change unless forced to do so...

..And if those people are happy with what they have why should they be forced to do something different??

Who are you or anyone else to tell me what kind of frickin light bulb to use?


Let us know when you get your house completely off the grid with your solar panels and wind mills. Nothing is stopping you.

..it's kind of like trying to educate some people on the healt benifits, or lack of, with some foods...

What... like coffee or eggs? Are they good for me today or not? I can't keep up.

 

[Vicegrip]

>>>>>>>> If CFL's were so great they wouldn't have needed to ban incandescents.

Just like if wind and solar were so great and cost effective they wouldn't need massive subsidies.



The whole better mouse trap thing. Great products sell themselves


<<<<<<<<<<<
all untrue

First, if the user bought all bulbs, or one was required to pay for the energy at time of purchase, no one would buy incandescents, except to heat the pump house.

wind and solar require subsidies because the variable cost of energy can eliminate a project, the threat of this prevents any from starting. Additionally society at large not having to have another fossil fuel powered electric plant is something 'we' want which is not something the profit making entity cares about.

CAFE is a great example of a regulation that works. The failure to increase CAFE in the late 80's left us with hordes of SUV's that continue to guzzle gas and keep the cost of petroleum high.

CAFE plateaued in 1987. Look at what happened to gas prices

http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html

http://www.sightline.org/images/blog-2008/Mileage-horsepower-EPA-600.gif

second graph is weird, shows economy increase stop in oh, 1988, then power goes up

Long term vs short term thinking.

They continue to sell lots of 'bad' mousetraps. Mousetraps don't cost everyone money. Bad light bulbs do.

I have some led's, they are ok, I only pay for them for the small fixtures. with PAR bulbs

Newer dimmables are better, cold cathode ones are better, dimmable led are probably going to be ok, but might not dim that much either

I just buy smaller bulbs......

As a side note, I would not have banned anything, just tax them, make users pay 'true cost'.

Keep in mind that the oil drillers were subsidized by the gube-ment for many years when they were first starting out.

 

[jmh21586]

Government shouldn't be in the business of subsidizing anything.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Government shouldn't be in the business of subsidizing anything.

I won't argue with that, but man there are some biggies out there like farming. Getting that subsity free would not only be tough on the farmers, but on food prices and our ability to sell abroad. But this is starting to get way off topic now.

 

[sneezer41]

>>>>>>..And if those people are happy with what they have why should they be forced to do something different??<<<<<<<<


Because it impacts other people. I am not a global warming fanatic, but smog, electric cost, cost of fuel, these things are not unrelated, do as you choose issues. It does relate to other people.

everybody has things they wish the gov't didn't do, or did do.

As I said, 'I' would not have banned anything. I doubt they will ever disappear, just become irrelevant.

 

[jmh21586]

Because it impacts other people. I am not a global warming fanatic, but smog, electric cost, cost of fuel, these things are not unrelated, do as you choose issues. It does relate to other people.
.

Really?

Can I see picture of your garage? Can I see a pic of any toys you have like boats, ATVs, hot rods, muscle cars, snowmobiles. etc??

Do you ever go out in your shop and make something just for the sake of making something? And do you use electricity to do it??

I'm guessing you'd say yes to at least on of those.

So let me have my incandescents.

Don't point out to me how unnecessary my light bulbs are unless you live a truly utilitarian lifestyle.

There are people out there that will use a 220 arc welder to weld together a bunch of junk to call it yard art, and then call for the banning of incandescent light bulbs.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I just checked again, and the original poster still hasn't come back after making this one and only entry. They obviously just wanted to stir the pot.

 

[Scott P]

It could have been a regular here who made up a different screen name. Trolls tend to do that when they are bored and feel like complaining about something.

 

[Auzivision]

In California you have Title 24, State energy codes which apply to all new contruction & remodeling, which mandates "energy efficient" lighting & controls.

I have a few fixtures in my 13 year old house that need replacing. I'm trying to find decent looking flush mount ceiling lamp designed for the newer bulbs and was surprised by the lack of selection of CFL (pin) versus standard (Edison) type fixtures. You would think the supply of fixtures would be changing over quicker.

I have a couple of the 300W equivalent out in the garage and really like them at first, but now I’ve a little disappointed. When I run out to the garage just to grab a beer or a tool, the lights are too dim… still trying to adjust to the warm up times.

Edit... I'm glad the OP started this thread... look at the discussion that followed. I know I learned a few things. Funny how a lady makes one comment then a bunch of men mule over it for days... LOL, somethings never change.

 

[long handles]

Lot of wrong information.....

The US lags behind a lot of other countries on banning the incandescent....



I realize it may not get that warm up 'there'....but the US has a significant energy usage for AC....

If you look at the total cost of manuf of an incandescent....and the fact that a CFL will last at least 10x longer than an incandescent....on manf energy along....it takes more to make 10 tungston bulbs than one CFL...

Last time I checked....1 incandescent cost about half of what a comparable CFL did....but that CFL will last 10x longer....that means when compared to the life of a CFL, you will spend 5x more for incandescents than CFL....and spend 5x more for electricity....

Recycling? There is no recycling for incandescents....they end up in the trash....

Mecury? Over the life of a CFL, less mecury is released than for an incandescent....

LED's? Have about the same effeciency as CFL's at 10x the cost.....they have a LONG way to go....

I like my CFL's.....I only have 6 indescent bulbs in the house....Oven, Fridge, and 4 in the bathroom (25w clear).

In the 10 years I have been in my house and started using CFL's, I have replaced 2.

CFL's don't seem to last 10x in my experience.

When they can top this, I'll be a believer.


http://www.centennialbulb.org/

and this

http://www.stockyardsmuseum.org/index_files/PalaceBulb.htm

 

[Dragster Racer]

Really?

Can I see picture of your garage? Can I see a pic of any toys you have like boats, ATVs, hot rods, muscle cars, snowmobiles. etc??

Do you ever go out in your shop and make something just for the sake of making something? And do you use electricity to do it??

I'm guessing you'd say yes to at least on of those.

So let me have my incandescents.

Don't point out to me how unnecessary my light bulbs are unless you live a truly utilitarian lifestyle.

There are people out there that will use a 220 arc welder to weld together a bunch of junk to call it yard art, and then call for the banning of incandescent light bulbs.

So the argument here is: If you are not perfect, you cannot advocate for any changes. I know I am paraprasing, but is that what you are saying? How extreme do you want to be with this method of thinking? We certainly don't all live in bubbles. Our actions affect others.

 

[Grumpy365]

Ok, i need a shirt out of my closet:

Incanescent: Turn on light ....... Grab shirt.......turn off light (5 seconds)

CFL: Turn on light...........wait 45 seconds to a minute in the dark waiting on light to warm up ...........turn off light (50 seconds)


It takes me 10 times longer to perform the same task.

CFL is 5x more efficient, i still used more energy than I would have with a incandescent.


































I can afford the electricity to run the light, i should be able to.

 

[oldgoat]

I've had good luck with my CFL's, don't have to wait more than a few seconds for them to come on, last a lot longer than the old bulbs and I can tell a lot of difference in the heat that comes off of them. The cost of them have come down a bunch also. Some I know are also changing over to LED lights.

 

[jmh21586]

So the argument here is: If you are not perfect, you cannot advocate for any changes. I know I am paraprasing, but is that what you are saying? How extreme do you want to be with this method of thinking? We certainly don't all live in bubbles. Our actions affect others.

No, my argument is that you think we need to ban incandescents because some people think the CFL's are better.

You may think it's ok to ban incandescents and then go out in your garage to work on your gas guzzling hot rod.

If you want me to give up my incandescetns because they're not as efficient than CFL's, maybe you should give up any toys you may have that use lots of energy with no purpose but to provide you with enjoyment.

It's the same damn thing.

Al Gore probably thinks incandescents should be banned too. Then he hops into a private plane.

It's hypocritical.

 

[Dragster Racer]

First, my hot rod doesn't run on gasoline.
Second, I admit that I am not perfect, but....still believe that things can be done by all of us, and sacrifices can be made by all of use that together, make a big difference. Unfortunately, there are some hard heads in this world who will never go with the team tring to make a difference unless you legislate them to do so.

 

[jmh21586]

So you can have yours but I can't have mine is that what you're saying? So you can have a dragster, running on alcohol or something, burning how many gallons in a quarter mile, presumably have a workshop for said dragster, and presumable using all types of powertools to make and maintain it, yet you want incandescent lights banned. Is that pretty much the jist of it??
Do you know how ignorantly stupid that sounds?
Since I have no hotrods, I think they should be banned, so we can save whatever the hell you think we're saving. How about that? Surely you don't mind the sacrifice.


I can't believe the gall of some people.






I also have another question. When CFL's are the only bulbs, and we're saving all this energy, do you think your rate per KWH is going to go down?

 

[Scott P]

Maybe the administrator can check the IP if the original poster and compare it to people posting in this thread.

 

[Boost Creep]

Ok, i need a shirt out of my closet:

Incanescent: Turn on light ....... Grab shirt.......turn off light (5 seconds)

CFL: Turn on light...........wait 45 seconds to a minute in the dark waiting on light to warm up ...........turn off light (50 seconds)


It takes me 10 times longer to perform the same task.

CFL is 5x more efficient, i still used more energy than I would have with a incandescent.

not sure what crappy brand of lights you're buying but all my cfl's come on right away and i can see fine. or are you just playing the part of your username and overexagerating?

 

[rippered]

My cfl's come on right away. I just bought 10 43 watt ones for my shop. They are full spectrum 5100k, its like high noon in there. I think some just don't like change and some watch too much fox news. Rip