Terrible CFL's

[jmh21586]

I think some just don't like change...

And some people do not like freedom.... and choices.

 

[jmh21586]

My cfl's come on right away.

So do my incandescents.

 

[slickgt1]

Most CFLs will not dim. Even if they say they dim, they do not. Then the can't get past the lightup spike, and make noise when dimmed. Also the "dimmable CFLs" cost double to tripple of the regular CFLs. You know what, I can it just doesn't cost when you have dimmers in the house.

 

[Dragster Racer]

There are special dimmers that are getting more common for dimmable cfl's that have better resolution down low, where the dimmable cfl's have trouble. Mine come on right away even if it is cool in the house. They give full light within 30 seconds. right away they probably give 65% of rated output. So it isn't like I am in the dark for 30 seconds.

 

[red]

So you can have yours but I can't have mine is that what you're saying?






I also have another question. When CFL's are the only bulbs, and we're saving all this energy, do you think your rate per KWH is going to go down?

Absolutely . . . . .NOT Price will most likely go up! You know carbon tax and all Plus you have less usage on the power plant which means costs have to go up because of the capital cost associated with the power plant ( that applies especially to those "Green" machines)

 

[Dragster Racer]

""So you can have yours but I can't have mine is that what you're saying? So you can have a dragster, running on alcohol or something, burning how many gallons in a quarter mile, presumably have a workshop for said dragster, and presumable using all types of powertools to make and maintain it, yet you want incandescent lights banned. Is that pretty much the jist of it??""

You are making assumptions about my actions. My race car goes through less fuel in a race day than it takes for me drive to work and back. But I digress. I'm not defending my hobby, nor will I. I gave up incondescents, and realized just how small the impact on life that was. So I am in favor of others doing the same. I respect your affection with your lightbulbs, but I also understand that everyone giving up this one thing could make a measurable difference in energy consumption. It isn't just about being able to pay for it.

"" Do you know how ignorantly stupid that sounds?
Since I have no hotrods, I think they should be banned, so we can save whatever the hell you think we're saving. How about that? Surely you don't mind the sacrifice.""

I reapect your thoughts. Fortunately for me, race cars have not been legislated out of the picture. So I don't have to cross that bridge right now. There may be a day, and I won't cry sour grapes. i will change how I race to accomidate the new rules. Others will be doing the same, so the equipment will be availible.

""I can't believe the gall of some people.""

I can't believe you got so worked up about someone else having an opinion that differs from yours.






""I also have another question. When CFL's are the only bulbs, and we're saving all this energy, do you think your rate per KWH is going to go down?""

The big picture with cfl's has nothng to do with saving money. it has to do with using less energy.

 

[draglink]

The big picture with cfl's has nothng to do with saving money. it has to do with using less energy.

Ok how about have congressman/senators/bureaucrats fly commercial airlines, take Amtrak, buses, subway and trade in the limos for a Gov't built Volt. Heck if only 2 or 3 did it, it would probably equal the energy savings of all CFLs in the US! If they make the change I will volunteer to put CFLs in my home!

 

[jmh21586]

Most CFLs will not dim. Even if they say they dim, they do not. Then the can't get past the lightup spike, and make noise when dimmed. Also the "dimmable CFLs" cost double to tripple of the regular CFLs. You know what, I can it just doesn't cost when you have dimmers in the house.

I can attest to the "dimmable CFL bulbs" not dimming. I paid $10+ a pice for a couple to try out in my kitchen can lights. They just don't dim.
My regular bulbs go from full brightness down to the equivalent of a lit match.

 

[jmh21586]

The big picture with cfl's has nothng to do with saving money. it has to do with using less energy.

So get rid of your dragster to save energy.

 

[Dragster Racer]

So get rid of your dragster to save energy.

It's great that you are so worked up about this.

 

[jmh21586]

I get worked up when people try to make decisions for me in a hypocritical fashion.

 

[ddawg16]

I can attest to the "dimmable CFL bulbs" not dimming. I paid $10+ a pice for a couple to try out in my kitchen can lights. They just don't dim.
My regular bulbs go from full brightness down to the equivalent of a lit match.

You can NOT use a normal CFL with your standard dimmer.....it takes a special CFL and the dimmer control has to be of the type to match the bulb.....so, if your trying to dim CFL's with the wrong dimmer....no wonder your bulbs are going out...

I also believe that you need to start them up at full power....let them get to full brightness and then dim....

I personally don't use dimmers in the house....If I want more light....I turn on more lights....if I want less....I turn off...

There are two basic kinds of dimmers...analog and digital....the digital ones are basically a chopper circuit that modulates the time the AC is on....if you want half power....it turns on at the start of the ac cycle and turns off half way through....want 3/4 power...it turns off at 3/4 of the power cycle....these type will not work with CFL's.

Analog use a variable resistor to reduce the voltage....the problem with useing this type is that it produces heat....as you dim the lights down, more power is being droped across the dimmer...not real effecient.

So.....if you want to control how much light you have....have several smaller ones....and turn on the ones you need.....

 

[jmh21586]

You can NOT use a normal CFL with your standard dimmer.....it takes a special CFL and the dimmer control has to be of the type to match the bulb.....so, if your trying to dim CFL's with the wrong dimmer....no wonder your bulbs are going out...

I didn't say my bulbs were going out did I?
So now I have to buy new dimmer switches to match the bulbs? Wow CFL's save money.

I personally don't use dimmers in the house....If I want more light....I turn on more lights....if I want less....I turn off...

I guess we should ban dimmers too.

I love dimmers. I use them constantly. I have twenty can lights in my house, all on dimmers.

Analog use a variable resistor to reduce the voltage....the problem with useing this type is that it produces heat....as you dim the lights down, more power is being droped across the dimmer...not real effecient.

I don't care about efficiency. I care about light quality and light control.

So.....if you want to control how much light you have....have several smaller ones....and turn on the ones you need.....

Or I can have regular bulbs and dim them the way I like.


But more power to you if you like what you got.
I just don't want someone telling me what to have.

 

[Notch1988]

I love dimmers too. Once you take a piss at 3am and are able to have just enough light to hit the bowl you'll never go back.

I like being able to choose what I want. CFL's have their place, just not every place.

 

[Dragster Racer]

"Or I can have regular bulbs and dim them the way I like."
For a while.

"I just don't want someone telling me what to have."
Gotta be rough.

I can still buy a dragster though. Whew!

 

[Kirbot]

I didn't read the whole topic, but there is one thing I wanted to add, in the defense of incandescent bulbs.
They put out heat.

Now, in the summer that isn't a good thing, however lights are on a lot more in the winter anyway.
Any heat they put out is that much less the main heater has to produce.

So basically, If you heat with electricity, incandescent bulbs in the winter are free light.
Even if you heat with oil, it's still that much less oil you will burn, the cost saving just won't be quite as big.

 

[Ohio Auto]

1. If you want some interesting reading, check out the protocol you are supposed to follow if you drop one and break it. One source says if it breaks on carpeting you are supposed to cut the section of carpeting out. Yeah right.

2. The real issue is being mandated to use them. That is the problem I have. I won't buy anything that pushes itself to be 'green' or 'eco friendly'. I do not buy into the global warming myth and refuse to participate in the folly by funding it's lie.

 

[Ohio Auto]

Oh yeah..here's another thought....GE...one of the major players in the CFL technology has received BILLIONS in bailout money. I suppose there's no connection though.

 

[red]

Oh yeah..here's another thought....GE...one of the major players in the CFL technology has received BILLIONS in bailout money. I suppose there's no connection though.

That's nothing really! Check out what they paid in taxes. Spend over 40 million on lobbying (Biggest Lobbyist in DC) "Evil" wally world paid 10x what GE paid in taxes. Won't find that on "GE" owned news networks. Ever wonder why? Big Government in bed with Big Business and Big Labor, no wonder why I am so confused. . . .

 

[Kirbot]

I don't know about the other things you listed, but I have just as big a problem with seatbelt and helmet laws.

Me not wearing a helmet or a seatbelt isn't going to endanger anybody else, so why should the government have a say in the issue?

I suppose thats a whole different discussion though.
One that I don't feel like getting too in depth with right now.

 

[Ohio Auto]

I still don't see the big deal about the mandate. We are stuck with all sorts of rules anyhow. Gotta wear a helmet on motorcycles. Need to have auto insurance. Have to wear seat belts. Need to immunize your children against major communicable deseases. Can't shoot up with illegal drugs. Can't use old style light bulbs. We can stomp our feet and whine about another rule, or we can pick our battles. If we were talking about outlawing guns....I could see the uproar. But over lightbulbs? Really? To save some electricity? It isn't worth getting your ******* in a bunch over. At least not my *******...errr...briefs.

It's called a 'nanny state'. Big government tells you what is good for you and passes laws to protect you from yourself. Problem with most Americans is that it has happened so slowly they don't even realize how many freedoms and liberties they don't have. At it's present rate if Americans don't wake up from denial and apathy we are going to be told what to eat, what to drive, how warm you can keep your house, and yes..even what kind of light bulb you can use. We are light years away from the intent of our original founding fathers.

 

[draglink]

It's called a 'nanny state'. Big government tells you what is good for you and passes laws to protect you from yourself. Problem with most Americans is that it has happened so slowly they don't even realize how many freedoms and liberties they don't have. At it's present rate if Americans don't wake up from denial and apathy we are going to be told what to eat, what to drive, how warm you can keep your house, and yes..even what kind of light bulb you can use. We are light years away from the intent of our original founding fathers.

Couldnt have said it better myself!

 

[ddawg16]

I didn't read the whole topic, but there is one thing I wanted to add, in the defense of incandescent bulbs.
They put out heat.

Now, in the summer that isn't a good thing, however lights are on a lot more in the winter anyway.
Any heat they put out is that much less the main heater has to produce.

So basically, If you heat with electricity, incandescent bulbs in the winter are free light.
Even if you heat with oil, it's still that much less oil you will burn, the cost saving just won't be quite as big.

That is true........however.....if you were to take the same electricity and use it in a heat pump to provide heat....at around 0 deg, it would still be slightly more effecient than resistive heat (light bulb)....most heat pumps hit the limit around -18 deg....

If you want a relative idea of just how much heat you are getting from your bulbs....take the wattage and add them all up....almost all of the energy comes out as heat...

Say you have 10 100w bulbs....that would be 1000w....which is equal to 3412 BTU.....now compare that to the BTU of your furnace......

 

[jmh21586]

I don't think our forefathers had any idea the citizens of this country could be so selfish and wasteful, and in many cases, ignorant.

Give up your dragster yet?? For the good of the country and future generations? Please don't be selfish.

With regards to cfl's: What if the quantities were changed? What if these things were garenteed to save half of your electric bill? You consume half the energy you used to. But they were very expensive...with maybe a 3 year payback.

Are you now diving into the relm of what ifs?

But if the nation used them as a whole, we would have enough coal for our great grandkids generation and beyond. Should it be required that we use them? If only 10% of our nation uses them, we don't get any real benefit. Should the common good and futures of our future generations perhaps trump slightly some of our individual freedoms?

Still got that dragster? i don't have one. Maybe if you didn't have a dragster, there would be more fuel and energy supplies for future generations.

What if cars that had technology to completely eliminate our dependance on cameljammers with guns? In the interest of national security long term, would it be worth mandating their use?

We're not addicted to foreign oil. We're restricted to foreign oil. Just ask the Mexicans that are drilling in the gulf, and then selling it to us, because we are not allowed to do it ourselves.

Is there nothing of common interest to our nation that is worth making small, mandated sacrifices to achieve?

Still got that dragster? come on. Make that small sacrifice for the good of the nation. No no... wait...... Do it for the children.

Arrogantly and wastefully walking through our lives at the expense of others and future generations wilst waving the trump card of "my freedom to do whatever I can afford to do" is quite another.

Do you still have that incredibly efficient and non wasting dragster? Please think of future generations when your wasting all that fuel running down the track. Please don't wave that trump card that says do as I say, not as I do.


H Y P O C R I T E

 

[ddawg16]

I don't think our forefathers had any idea the citizens of this country could be so selfish and wasteful, and in many cases, ignorant. Let's take child car seats for instance. Now that child doesn't understand the forces involved in a crash, nor the concequences resulting. But parents SHOULD. The seats are inexpensive and availible. And yet some never use them. Even though it IS a law. Same ones that smoke in the car with their kids, even though the problems with second hand smoke are proven. Are they harming others? It's possible. Should child seat laws exist? Who else is going to protect the kids from their parents' ignorance?
Helmet laws? Who else would be harmed really? Well, when the rider comes to the hospital with half his brains in a bag, and no insurance..who pays the bill? You and I do. When he needs round the clock care for the rest of his lousy existance, who pays for that? You and I do. I don't want to pay for his risk taking. And shouldn't have to.
With regards to cfl's: What if the quantities were changed? What if these things were garenteed to save half of your electric bill? You consume half the energy you used to. But they were very expensive...with maybe a 3 year payback. But if the nation used them as a whole, we would have enough coal for our great grandkids generation and beyond. Should it be required that we use them? If only 10% of our nation uses them, we don't get any real benefit. Should the common good and futures of our future generations perhaps trump slightly some of our individual freedoms? What if cars that had technology to completely eliminate our dependance on cameljammers with guns? In the interest of national security long term, would it be worth mandating their use? Is there nothing of common interest to our nation that is worth making small, mandated sacrifices to achieve? Enjoying our freedoms is one thing. Arrogantly and wastefully walking through our lives at the expense of others and future generations wilst waving the trump card of "my freedom to do whatever I can afford to do" is quite another.

Dragster....good post.....

I'm going to ignore jmh because he is just trolling.....trying to cause problems....

If I could sumerize the debate....

Yes...there is mercury in them....but typically less than in one can of tuna....in realitive terms, I'm sure people eat a lot more tuna than break a CFL. Though, I do wonder why no one has complained about the 4' & 8' tubes....they have mercury too....

Longivity.....this seems to depend on the user....I and many others don't have problems....

Power Savings....at LEAST 1/4th or better when compared to incandescents

Slow turn on...no turn on in cold weather.....can't argue that one....most of my bulbs come on instantly....some take a short time (30-60 sec)....not an issue for me.

The so called 'ban' is not a ban....just a requirement for manuf to increase the effeciency of bulbs....if it does not meet the guildlines...you can't sell it....already, we are starting to see some of those new bulbs....with halogen being one of the technologies....

LED's.....they 'may' be the answer....but they have a long ways to go.....I somehow think someone will figure out a better indescent and LED's will go to the wayside....I see them staying in low voltage applications....

I am not crazy about regulations....I prefer the 'personal choice' method....just like I would like the option to ride my m/c without a helmet....but then again, if some rider goes out there and becomes brain dead because he was not wearing a helmet....at the end of the day, the money comes out of my pocket....and yours....

Same with power plants....if they have to build a new one....rates go....translation....it's going to cost all of us more money....

What I find funny is that the same ones who ***** about the govt regulations are also the first ones to ***** when something goes wrong....I see it all the time.....

 

[Dragster Racer]

Still have the dragster, which burns about 15 gallons at a full race total, if I go deep in rounds.
Still drive fuel efficient vechicles.
Still planted about 1500 trees on my own property in the past 3 years. And 3 acres of prairie grasses that I maintain also on my property, which I have dedicated almost entirely to nature. I'm doing my part. I'm doing your part. But you are the one personalizing it to individuals. The issue of cfl's is the combined efforts of a nation making a marked difference on our country's consumption of energy. I don't expect everyone to want to or be able to plant on average 500 trees a year, which I plan on doing for many years to come. But putting up with a handful of cfl's probably isn't too much to ask. I didn't think..

 

[jmh21586]

I'm going to ignore jmh because he is just trolling.....trying to cause problems....

Just pointing out the hypocrites, and how they're hypocritical.

Pretty easy when it's so blatant.

 

[Dragster Racer]

ddaug..agree on every point you made.
And my one obstacle with my cfl's is outside lights. Under 5 degrees they won't fire. Better ones are coming, and I can rotate them in when the time comes. It isn't under 5 degrees all that often.

 

[jmh21586]

Still have the dragster, which burns about 15 gallons at a full race total, if I go deep in rounds.

How do you get it to the races? How did you build it? Any power tools involved?
I don't have a dragster so....

Still drive fuel efficient vechicles.

I choose to also.

Still planted about 1500 trees on my own property in the past 3 years. And 3 acres of prairie grasses that I maintain also on my property, which I have dedicated almost entirely to nature. I'm doing my part.

I grow my own veggies, raise my own meat, recycle......

I'm doing your part.

My part? Do you know me or something?

But you are the one personalizing it to individuals. The issue of cfl's is the combined efforts of a nation making a marked difference on our country's consumption of energy.

I think we should ban needless drag racing. It's 100% wasteful.
At least my incandescents aren't 100% wastefull. They serve apurpose.

I don't expect everyone to want to or be able to plant on average 500 trees a year, which I plan on doing for many years to come. But putting up with a handful of cfl's probably isn't too much to ask. I didn't think..

In the big picture, giving up drag racing wouldn't be too much to ask would it?? For the good of the country. FOR THE CHILDREN!??!
Congratulations with your choices. Please allow me to make mine.

How many KWH was on your last electric bill?

 

[Dragster Racer]

Oh boy. Someone is off their meds. I'm done with ya. Ignore.

 

[jmh21586]

All I'm doing is using YOUR logic. Maybe it's all those alcohol fumes from your dragster making you use strange logic.
They don't have smog equipment on them ya know.

 

[Ohio Auto]

Dragster Racer = Al Gore.

Let me tell you how the rest of the world should live while I rationalize away my own behavior.

Al Gore flying around the world consuming mass quantities of jet fuel preaching the dangers of global warming = drag car race drivers doing the same. It is so hypocritical.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'll bet the original poster is watching all this and laughing...they came in here, made one post and left, and six pages later people are punching each other in the nose.

 

[Scott P]

I still believe the original poster is still posting in this thread, just under his or her regular screen name. Make up an alias to stir up the pot, then carry on a conversation with yourself. It's covered in Trolling 101.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Oh good grief. What? Did I make the rule? I just said I don't mind it, and can certainly understand the rational behind it. AND I said that I really don't see why people are making such a big deal out of changing light bulbs. I certainly didn't personalize it to any one poster that they need to change. Fact it, they probably will have to change. I guess my point is: Get over it! I chose to change bulbs before I had to, and I am sure I will have to make some other changes in my life and hobbies due to legislation. Gee wiz! Roll with it. You have no idea how much or little I consume, and are making assumptions based on one of my hobbies. Poop on ya. I try to get you to at least see the rational behind the cfl thing, and get personally attacked. Fine. Don't agree and don't understand. You will still have to change sooner or later. Boo hoo. It's a freaking light bulb! You would think they were outlawing testicles. But then that might not be a problem for you.
There. Now you can take it personally.

 

[Dragster Racer]

And yes. We have some trolls.

 

[Ohio Auto]

I am sure I will have to make some other changes in my life and hobbies due to legislation.

I think that statement right there sums up the majority of the disagreements on this subject.

Personally, I don't think you should have to make those adjustments in your hobby. You love drag racing...that's cool. My point is that it is not the role of government to restrict your freedoms.

You seem content to broker that power away to an out of control government. I feel otherwise.

The 'lightbulb' is only the item being used in this object lesson, it's not the focal issue.

 

[sdowney717]

please explain this and if they dont save as much power as you think then why the deception?

CFLs Do Not Save On Energy Consumption

Power Factor
An incandescent bulb has a power factor of 1. Most CFLs sold in Canada have a power factor of about 0.55. That means there are more energy losses in operating the CFL compared to an incandescent bulb. This does not show up on a power bill but the power company has to supply more power than what the bulb is rated for. Astonishingly, CFLs can take much more energy to operate than what is on the label and still be listed as an energy star product, something few consumers know. CFL cheerleaders seldom tell consumers that the power factor is not included in their energy consumption calculations.

http://www.greenmuze.com/blogs/guest-bloggers/1031-the-dark-side-of-cfls.html

 

[MGMatt]

I'm a big fan of the CFLs and have them everywhere in my house. The light quality and on time has gotten much better. The one place I don't want a CFL is the drop light. Working under a plow truck during a storm nothing beats the warmth of a 100w rough service bulb.

 

[sdowney717]

The BAN is off in NZ.
a lot of controversy on how they are not so environmentally friendly as green peace and the US politicos claim.

http://www.southgatearc.org/news/december2008/nz_scraps_lightbulb_ban.htm