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Thank you Radiant Direct!

oldbones

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Feb 24, 2008
Messages
85
Well, I think it's working...:shocking:

I'm working on a 36X40 shop, broke ground in June. I finally got to the point where it was time to install the boiler and associated hardware for the radiant heat flooring.

Pex was of course installed prior to the pour. I have 3 loops, each just over 400'. Heat source is a 9kw ElectoBoiler, it hangs on the wall and takes up very little space.

They sent the stuff last week, but I was out of town until yesterday afternoon. I got home around 3 O'clock, and spent a couple hours getting ready. I had to hang a couple sheets of OSB on the wall where the system was to be mounted. About 5:30, I started pulling all the pieces/parts out of boxes and found the instruction pages. By 8pm, I had the entire system assembled and hung on the wall. My wife was my helper, holding this and fetching that.

Today, I went back out and tightened all the joints and fittings, then had to go shopping a couple tools and some parts for the electrical hookup. I was hoping my electrician was going to come by and hook it all up, but by the time I ran out of mechanical stuff to do, he hadn't shown, so I decided to start on the easy part, like the thermostat. Well, about an hour later, I had the whole damn thing wired and ready to go. Hooked up one garden hose to the fill valve, and one to the purge valve and filled the system the best I could. I fiddled with it at the end trying to make sure I had no air left in the system.

Once that was finished, I guess I didn't see much reason to just stand their staring at it, so I flipped the thermostat on set for 68 degrees. A few seconds later, a loud click then a quiet hum as the pump kicked on. That was it!

After about 5 minutes, the boiler out was about 72 degrees, and the return was in the low 40s. After about 10 minutes, I got bored of standing their staring at it again, it's not real exciting to watch.

So, now it's time for a big taco dinner, then I'll go out and sit in a lawn chair in the middle of the shop and see if it feels any warmer! This will, of course, require cold beer.:beer:


Radiant Direct out of Spokane, Washington were a pleasure to work with. They seem to know their stuff, offer all the options, and deliver as promised and for a reasonable price. The entire system as purchased from them ended up costing me right at 3 bucks a square, but it could have been significantly cheaper if I had used a different heat source. I wanted the elecroboiler because electricity is super cheap in Washington, and it takes up ZERO floor space. The initial cost for gas is much cheaper.

Now I can move on to epoxying my floor!!!:thumbup:
 
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oldbones

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Feb 24, 2008
Messages
85
Here's a crummy shot off my camera phone...


433471774_jTAAr-M.jpg
 
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oldbones

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Feb 24, 2008
Messages
85
Well, 14 hours of runtime and the shop has come from 48 degrees up to 60. I've initially set the thermostat all the way to 70, because I want to "bake" the slab good and dry, and I have some pressure washing of the floor yet to do before pouring down epoxy in a couple days.

You can hear the system quietly humming away over there, but if I turn on the radio, you won't be able to hear it at all.

I'm really excited to have this done, because now I can move directly on to the next projects, floor epoxy, OSB walls, and drywall (lid, bathroom and upstairs). Then, it's MOVE IN TIME!!!
 

bobbie45617

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
7
Location
New York
Is the Radiant Heat – The Ultimate Solution?

Hi guys ,

You u have already radian heat flooring i thought of sharing this with you some thing i came across. These are pros and cons of radiant heat.


I think it is fair to state that we all dream of radiant heat. If you are reading this article, you probably have a solid understanding of radiant in-floor heating. If not check out Wikipedia definition.

Radiant heating basically involves running tubing (pex or copper) throughout your floor (you lay it out before you pour your concrete) on 6” to 18” centers.

Radiant heat pros:

* Comfort: Radiant heat provides a uniform heat that will ensure you are comfortable from head to toe. No more freezing feet due to hot air rising.
* Efficiency: Generally, a well maintained radiant system is cheapest source of heat you can find.
* Reduced Dust: No air being forced through vents, or out of a blower means less air burn dust.

Radiant heat cons:

* Installation cost: You are generally looking at $6.00 - $12.00 a square foot for installation including heat source. It’s not cheap. Though, if you building new it is something you should probably consider.
* Spring a leak: When your concrete cracks and shifts it can put a large amount of stress on your tubing causing a leak. Locating and repairing these leaks can be difficult.

If you can afford radiant heat, you are sure to love it, make sure you consider it.



Thanks
 

mikew1019

New member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
2
Hey, great looking setup that you have. I have a few questions if you don't mind, it's nearly identical to what I'm planning on installing (electric as well).

1. How did you insulate the slab? What do you have for interior insulation?
2. Did the supplier suggest a boiler because it was cheaper than a water heater, or couldn't a water heater put out enough heat? Did they size the boiler for you?
3. What was the outside temperature when you powered it up? I'm in northeast ohio, and we get into the mid'teens in the winter.

thanks in advance for your help and insight.

Mike in Ohio
 
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oldbones

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Feb 24, 2008
Messages
85
Hi Mike,

First, I just added a link to my build photos in my sig line. Let me know if it works. There are shots of the slab in progress that should show you all you need to know.

Answers...

1. Slab insualtion. In my county, code said I had to insulate the whole slab to R-10. That's 2" of rigid foam board insulation. It's a monolithic pour, so there is vapor barrier, insulation, then 6" wire mesh, Pex tubing then concrete. Also insulated vertically around the outside perimeter down to 2'. Interior is insulated as well as my house, R-21 walls and R-30 ceilings, batts.

2. They recommended the 9kw boiler, or two 4.5 kw water heaters. I chose the boiler, more expensive, but it takes up no space, is simpler, and a much better solution in my opinion. It should last longer too.

3. It's around 50 daytimes and low 30's at night here now. Snowed last night. My dad has the same size building, but a metal sided pole barn. It's in Eastern Washington, very cold and lots of snow. It is insulated, but not as well as my shop. He has two hot water heaters, and it keeps the place toasty warm. My thermostat said 48 when I turned it on. Just over 24 hours later, it was 70 degrees and I had to turn it down.


We have an upstairs room that's 14'x40' and 7' tall. The floor between that and downstairs is insulated, as are the walls and ceilings upstairs. The stairwell going up is open (no door), but that's the only airflow between the two rooms. There is no heat for the upstairs. Yesterday, I had turned the heat down to 65 degrees downstairs, and last night we sat upstairs and drank beers, I was comfortable in a t-shirt. It was 35 outside, and close to 70 up there.
 
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thammel

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Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
2,243
Location
Maryland
Hey Oldbones,

Your situation sounds just like mine and I'm glad to hear it! My new garage is 32 x 28 and I put in pex and insulated and did all just about the same as you. I have an upstairs room that is 12 x 28 x 7 high. I have not yet gotten to insulating but with 2 x 6 exterior walls will have r19 in them. I'm planning on not insulating the floor under the upstairs room but will do the walls and the ceiling - that way the room should stay more like the downstairs temp. But I do have an open stairway to it, so from your experience I should be in good shape!

I have not yet purchased a boiler and can go either with electric or propane. Did you compare costs? If I needed 9kw electric, that would **** out 40 amps. I have 100 amp service, so it would be ok, but not preferable. The real question is the cost per btu.

Thanks,
Tom
 

larry4406

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Jan 27, 2006
Messages
19,162
Location
Northern Virginia
Interesting how this thread has gone from the OP's $3/sf to as much as $12/sf - quite a spread. I looked into this system and the all-in costs (pex, manifolds, slab insulation, additional slab steel, heat source, etc) became cost prohibitive for me - and then still no AC. Would love to have had this for comfort, but did not make sense for my $. In the end, I went ducted forced air propane with 5 ton AC (I already had the outdoor unit), total cost was about $3500 for me (called in many favors) for my 1500sf garage.
 
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tdkkart

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Jun 17, 2006
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Eastern Iowa
Interesting how this thread has gone from the OP's $3/sf to as much as $12/sf - quite a spread. I looked into this system and the all-in costs (pex, manifolds, slab insulation, additional slab steel, heat source, etc) became cost prohibitive for me - and then still no AC. Would love to have had this for comfort, but did not make sense for my $. In the end, I went ducted forced air propane with 5 ton AC (I already had the outdoor unit), total cost was about $3500 for me (called in many favors) for my 1500sf garage.


I'm just a couple months into my first experience with in-floor radiant heat, and so far I'm only heating a 16 x 30 space, but I can tell you that I would be willing to sacrifice somewhere else for awhile in order to have the radiant heat done during the build.
I am so impressed with the comfort of this system that I wouldn't have anything else. Hopefully this summer I will be finishing out the rest of my 30x40 building, the first order of business being to poor the rest of the floor including the pex tubing and insulation.
 
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oldbones

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Feb 24, 2008
Messages
85
thammel, as for cost comparison, I used the "heating cost calculator" on one of the radiant websites. I can't seem to find it now, but here's another.

http://hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

Electricity is quite affordable here, and this boiler is 100% efficient. My other option was propane.


Whoever is paying $12/sf for their radiant solution is being taken for a ride. I did do all the install myself, with minimal help from friends. It wasn't that hard.
 

luvmy356

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Seattle, WA
I have radiant floor heat in my 22x46 garage and its great as the concrete isn't cold if you are on the floor. And if you bring in a wet car, the concrete drys faster. But if I lived in a region which needed A/C, I probably wouldn't have used it as you would need extra $$$ for two separate hvac systems.

The only downside is that it takes more time to heat up the space vs other heating systems. Now that its cold, I minimize the time my garage door is open.
 
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oldbones

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Feb 24, 2008
Messages
85
Ok, that's an amazing picture. What at bevy of gorgeous beauties!!!

But, what is that I see in the background? A MkII? A little young, don't you think?


Ah, I'm not one to talk. My 356 is a replica, and my early Scirocco has long belonged to someone else (although, I think she's still kicking **** on the local track...).
 

luvmy356

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Seattle, WA
Its an 83 MkI. Its just old enough to qualify for classic car insurance...

I got hooked on VWs when I babysat a roommate's 76 Scirocco for a summer, he wasn't thrilled that I put 1000 miles on his car during that time. I know I was only supposed to start it once in a while but it was much better to drive than my own car. You don't see those early Sciroccos anymore, except as Mini-stocks at the local racetracks which is too bad.
 
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oldbones

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Feb 24, 2008
Messages
85
I build a '78 Scirocco into an amazing autocross car. I later piled it into the back of a minivan and bent the frame, but amazingly the only piece of go fast stuff (over 5 grand worth!) that I bent was the strut tower brace. Back to the junkyard, where I found a straight '76 body with no rust. I rented two lifts side by side at the Navy base auto hobby shop, and about 4 days later I had a new racecar. I had done well enough with the first one, that my buddy who owned a body shop painted the new car for me and put his logos in the window. The new car felt a decent bit quicker, and when I rolled on the scales I found out why. With a quarter tank of fuel, it weighed 1890#!
 

triplethreat

Active member
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
30
Location
Bel Air, Maryland
Hey Oldbones,

Your situation sounds just like mine and I'm glad to hear it! My new garage is 32 x 28 and I put in pex and insulated and did all just about the same as you. I have an upstairs room that is 12 x 28 x 7 high. I have not yet gotten to insulating but with 2 x 6 exterior walls will have r19 in them. I'm planning on not insulating the floor under the upstairs room but will do the walls and the ceiling - that way the room should stay more like the downstairs temp. But I do have an open stairway to it, so from your experience I should be in good shape!

I have not yet purchased a boiler and can go either with electric or propane. Did you compare costs? If I needed 9kw electric, that would **** out 40 amps. I have 100 amp service, so it would be ok, but not preferable. The real question is the cost per btu.

Thanks,
Tom
Tom,

I also live in Maryland and hope to break ground for my garage in another month. Plan to use radiant heat. What type of pex did you use on your floor? I was thinking about using the RHT PEX-AL-PEX from http://www.blueridgecompany.com/radiant/hydronic/452/rht-pex-al-pexmulitlayer-pipe
 

thammel

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Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
2,243
Location
Maryland
Amazing - I also bought from blueridge. Send me a private message. I may have some left over parts for you. I used 3 200' rolls of their 1/2" red pex I don't think it was the stuff you mentioned - it was all pex (crosslinked stuff). I put it on top of 2" insulation and used a staple gun rented from them along with their staples. The system is still holding pressure of 30psi - from last October to now!

Tom
 
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