Thank you sears!

[Mechanical Noise]

Maybe I'm jaded from too many years in retail, and too many years processing "warranty" products as a buyer for a retail chain, then processing "warranty" products as a manufacturers' representative; I've seen the other side of it, and I know what kind of damage it does to a company's bottom line.

Then the company should change the warranty when it does more harm than good. We all ought to play by the rules, but it's not the customer's responsibility to protect the store's bottom line, any more than it's the store's responsibility to keep the customer's checking account in the black.

Do whatever you feel you need to do. Just don't be dismayed when people call you out on it.

If we're going to get personal on this, I did return a plastic faced hammer three years ago. My Grandfather bought it in the 60s and the handle broke years later. I showed it to the clerk and she selected a larger, somewhat more expensive hammer for the exchange. The exact replacement hammer was next to it and I took that one instead. Well, not exactly exact. The handle on the replacement hammer was thicker. Possibly the warranty exchange program had improved the tool over the years.

I promise I won't be dismayed if people call me out on that one.

 

[Schurkey]

Sears did not limit the warranty to the original purchaser.

Sears was famous for the "Satisfaction" warranty. That warranty may change over time, but tools bought under a prior warranty should have the prior warranty honored.

What is the difference whether the original owner, the original owner's family/heir, or someone who buys it at a yard sale warranties the tool? The important part is that the tool failed, not which carbon-based life form shows up at the counter with it in it's hands.

If Sears is going to discontinue tools, it seems only fair to me that the owner of a failed, non-replaceable tool be given a CASH REFUND based on the most-recent retail price of the item, adjusted for inflation. Providing a gift card instead of cash benefits Sears, not the customer.

 

[gdocktor3]

If I were the OP, I would take those Lisle bits and throw them in the garbage: do not pass "GO", do not collect $200, drop them straight into the garbage.
Then flag down the Snap-on man or order a set of VIM bits from Amazon and pony up the bucks for a set of "Torx" bits that have an exponentially lower chance of shearing, snapping, stripping, and/or causing one to suffer agonizing wounds on their hands.

Well, IF I WERE THE OP, I would buy a used set of Snap On torx sockets from eBay and then warranty them for new ones!

Because I'm bad, I'm bad - come on
(Bad bad - really, really bad)
You know I'm bad, I'm bad - you know it
(Bad bad - really, really bad)
You know I'm bad, I'm bad - come on, you know
(Bad bad - really, really bad)
And the whole world has to
Answer right now
Just to tell you once again,
Who's bad...
MJ

 

[M6erfan]

Interesting responses to this thread...

"Fails to provide complete Satisfaction" I'll use a couple of examples from posts in this thread:

-If I had my grandfathers 50 year old Craftsman hammer and it broke, personally I'd feel completely satisfied that the tool gave a fair life of service and did its job. I'd just buy a new one. (And I'd keep the original as a momento)

-if I bought a used Craftsman tool at a garage sale and it ended up being faulty, either I'd be mad at myself for not inspecting it closer when I bought it, or just chalk it up to bad luck, I wouldn't return it because the tool failed to satisfy my needs.

-if I reef on a Craftsman ratchet with a 6ft cheater bar and the ratchet fails, I wouldn't feel that the tool performed unsatisfactorily and hold Sears liable.

Anyway, that's just me. What I find interesting is that I sort of see this thread as a microcosm of society in America today and, to some extent, the totally different points of view & polarization in our political system.

 

[clmeredith]

^+1
Well said.
My first post- pre post exasperation ��������

 

[erty67]

I like turtles

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[DC73]

The language in Sears' hand tool warranty has changed over the years but one thing remains constant - For decades, including when they were very successful, Sears has had an unwritten rule to replace a defective hand tool with no questions asked. I've even been encouraged by Sears managers to return tools where I wasn't the original owner.

By having the written rule say one thing and the practical application of that rule be different, it gives managers options. They can take care of their good customers but they can also refuse tool swaps for those guys that frequent yard sales and swap meets and bring in truck loads of tools at a time.

DC

 

[Gautama]

I'm still baffled by the people who don't see the consequences of their actions, and instead argue about why it doesn't matter. Of course it matters. It all matters. The actions you take affect the people around you. The manager who looks the other way when you exchange a tool you abused has now created two people who think the rules don't apply to them. Then someone reads about it on a forum and goes "Geez, they got away with it, I must be a sucker not to be doing that too!" and so he starts looking for ways he can beat the system. Now it's three people. And so it goes...eventually you have an entire society of people who are looking for every advantage they can get, even at the expense of others, because they feel it's the only way they can compete.

I deleted a lot more, but my short message is this: These things have consequences. Not only are you ultimately making things worse for everyone in indirect ways, but you're directly making them especially worse for yourself. You'll end up surrounded by other people who aren't trustworthy, and believe me, they'll do the same thing to you. Call it karma if you prefer, but it matters. Oh boy, does it matter.

Now, let's get back to talking about tools, shall we?

 

[Vortaku]

Was the lifetime warranty only for the original purchaser? I mean, seriously, unless that was the case you should have absolutely no qualms about a warranty replacement. The terms of the warranty were and are a business decision on the part of the retailer. If that decision leads to hardship for the business then so be it. The next generation of retailers will hopefully learn from that mistake and fill the gap.

Nobody has any responsibility for Sears' warranty policy but Sears. The same goes for Home Depot, Lowes, or any other business. The situation that Sears is in today has a lot more to do with complacency and poor strategy than somebody getting a screwdriver (or any other hand tool) replaced. Everyone who has broken Craftsman tools could throw them away and Sears' situation wouldn't improve one iota.

It is a duralast tool, I have worked at Autozone. It does not state online it is meant for the first buyer. I never gave anyone a hard time returning anything with a Duralast name on it tool wise, many people expected to need receipt etc, and was glad they dealt with me. Apparently some employees at other stores have been demanding receipts. But while I didn't want to upset a customer and lose business I can understand where someone might. I was given a gift of a used set of tools. Duralast large set molded case 1/4, 3/8/, 1/2 inch ratchets and sockets. It isn't a bad set, and was free. I very much appreciate the gift. But how I always saw the warranty was you buy it so the warranty belongs to you. Much like limited lifetime warranties on car parts that you would buy at an Autozone.

While I could easily take it in and warranty it, I feel if I want that ratchet I should buy it. That way I have purchased the ratchet myself, and therefore have purchased the warranty. This is just how I feel. I feel purchasing the ratchet would be the right thing for me to do.

 

[ssdave]

I take a bit different approach to the warranty issue than most of the posts here.

My approach is: If I break a tool using it for normal use (not abusing it) I warranty it. I don't care where I acquired it, the manufacturer has warranted that they make the tool adequate for normal use. If it fails in normal use, it is defective, and is appropriate to warranty.

What i do not try to warranty is abuse: I don't return tools because they're rusty. I don't put a cheater on a ratchet and then warranty it when it breaks. I don't pound on them with a hammer and warranty them when they break. I don't use chrome sockets on an impact and warranty them when they crack.

I also look at what is normal wear, and throw away things I legitimately wore out, unless that wear is priced into the tool warranty. I quit warrantying the craftsman #2 screwdrivers that I bought in a 20 piece set when I was a teenager. That was just a waste of time. I do warranty the $15 #2 screwdrivers I bought from Snap-on in the 80's and 90's, as the price of those warranty replacements was priced into the initial purchase price. My Snap-on dealer has always made a point of that; they use that as a selling point to justify the high initial purchase price. I've always been told "you're purchasing lifetime replacements of the blade, as long as you don't lose the handle".

Now, buying a broken tool at a yard sale and warrantying it if you have no idea how it got broken? That's an ethics question: Not all things that are legal are right to do.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I'm still baffled by the people who don't see the consequences of their actions, and instead argue about why it doesn't matter. Of course it matters. It all matters. The actions you take affect the people around you. The manager who looks the other way when you exchange a tool you abused has now created two people who think the rules don't apply to them. Then someone reads about it on a forum and goes "Geez, they got away with it, I must be a sucker not to be doing that too!" and so he starts looking for ways he can beat the system. Now it's three people. And so it goes...eventually you have an entire society of people who are looking for every advantage they can get, even at the expense of others, because they feel it's the only way they can compete.

It is about rules. And who gets hurt. Does Sears get hurt by warranty exchanges? Then let them change their rules. If Sears wants to tell their managers not to exchange tools which were obviously abused, they are free to do so. After all, Sears knows far better than I do the costs and benefits of the broadly written warranty. They keep it, that MUST mean they think it's worth keeping.

As far as all of society falling apart in a chain reaction because Sears won't stop presumed warranty abuse, well, isn't that just a bit of a stretch?

I deleted a lot more, but my short message is this: These things have consequences. Not only are you ultimately making things worse for everyone in indirect ways, but you're directly making them especially worse for yourself. You'll end up surrounded by other people who aren't trustworthy, and believe me, they'll do the same thing to you. Call it karma if you prefer, but it matters. Oh boy, does it matter.

Now, let's get back to talking about tools, shall we?

I like to think I'm trustworthy. I've bought hundreds of Craftsman tools since the seventies. I've probably made a dozen warranty returns in those years. I'll admit to a few returns on tools I wasn't the original purchaser. My grandfather's hammer and ratchet and a rounded out flea market socket I bought when I wasn't wearing my bifocals. I didn't break any explicit rules, so how much of the presumed decline of society am I responsible for?

And I've received free stuff from Sears. Buy one, get one free. Warranty exchanges. Bought plenty of stuff which was certainly below cost. Not to mention the TV shows and Internet ads bought by Sears. All of this was freely offered and accepted without deception on either side. So, how much of a thief am I for accepting Sears stuff without paying for it.?

Honestly, I thought deception was the line I shouldn't cross. I never lied to Sears or tried to fake them out. Basically, it's "I'd like to exchange this" and the answer has always been "Sure!".

But now, perhaps, I've broken unwritten law, some unstated warranty morality. Maybe the decent world really IS crumbling away and I bear some responsibility. Damn!! Well, at least I'll have some inkling why I'm doing extra laps in the Lake of Fire.

I hope I can talk Sears into giving me an asbestos suit.

 

[popparoach]

to each their own.

 

[jd_1138]

Me too.
I appreciate all the arguments attempting to justify actions which are less than ethical.
I just don't agree with them.

I don't believe there was any part of what I typed above that was unclear, so there's really no need to further expound on it.

Ethics/morals are almost nonexistent among a lot of people. It's sad. To them, nothing is unethical as long as some "sucker" allowed them to do it (employee at Sears). I'd feel dirty buying a busted tool and returning it for a free $40 gift card.

It violates the spirit/ethics of the Sears lifetime warranty.

 

[Git]

Guys - Quit being so hard on Junk-man.

He went with intent to replace the tool, even though he bought it cheap used, I would bet by far the majority of us have done that.

Then, on the spot, they said all they can do is give the $40 card.

How many of you, would at that moment, refused the card?

Not all, but I bet most would accept it.

Stop and be honest w yourself.

He did NOT go in w the prethought intent of ripping Sears off for $40.

I dunno, just my thoughts. Marc

Seriously - what kind of person buys a broken tool (there was obviously something wrong with it since he bought it for $1) takes it to the store for a replacement AND then brags about it?

"Stop and be honest w yourself." - I am being honest - I would never consider doing that, it is dishonest in my opinion

 

[M6erfan]

Seriously - what kind of person buys a broken tool (there was obviously something wrong with it since he bought it for $1) takes it to the store for a replacement AND then brags about it?

Don't know many do it but more than one. I think, from some threads I've read around here through the years that I've been a member, that some purposely go garage sailing just for this purpose. Maybe I'm wrong but sadly, I don't think so...

 

[zendriver]

Respectfully, I think you're talking apples and oranges here.
Sorry, I am a firm believer that any manufacturer's warranty is good for the original purchaser of the item, unless the manufacturer's stated warranty explicitly allows for the warranty to be passed on to subsequent owners.

In the case of Sears' Craftsman warranty, there is no sort of exclusionary clause written, either express or implied, regarding any conditions under which the warranty will be honored.

Under the Magnuson-Moss act, technically this leaves Sears in a precarious position in, say, a hypothetical scenario where a consumer files suit for damages as a result of the use of their product. (Most manufacturer's written warranty policies will include a clause about "incidental or consequential damages as a result of the use of this product".)

So, okay fine: Sears wrote what is effectively an unconditional warranty on the Craftsman tool (i.e., "If this Craftsman (or Craftsman Industrial) hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction,")
So because there is nothing even implied in the written warranty stating that it applies only to the original purchaser, I suppose one could justify in their own mind that it's okay to take advantage of that warranty and get a free replacement item.

I also understand fully that some retailers will go far out of their way to retain good customer relations, not only to the point of "making the customer whole again", but going that "extra mile" as a gesture of good will. (In the OP's case issuing a $40 gift card that may have well exceeded the purchase price of the item in question.)

Some people don't sleep well at night knowing that they took advantage of a situation at the cost of another party. Some people go through life trying to gain the advantage as their primary driving force; for them the end justifies the means.

Maybe I'm jaded from too many years in retail, and too many years processing "warranty" products as a buyer for a retail chain, then processing "warranty" products as a manufacturers' representative; I've seen the other side of it, and I know what kind of damage it does to a company's bottom line.

Do whatever you feel you need to do. Just don't be dismayed when people call you out on it.

LOl, in the "good old days", most people used to just do, what was right.

Then the lawyers came along and now things are much "better".

 

[Cruzan80]

I think it is funny that when you bring in old quality Craftsman, you think you are getting the same quality back....

Yes, I have warrantied stuff that I was not the original owner. But I also didn't abuse it. Used level dropped 1-2 ft, cracked the support beams inside? Warrantied. Rachets? Rebuilt. But since I try not to abuse tools, never had a time where I stuck a cheater on a 1/4" and then claimed it wasn't holding up.

 

[Schurkey]

The part that those who would take a $1.00 garage sale item back to a retailer for "warranty" is the ethics part.
Just because you can doesn't always necessarily mean you should.

What is the difference if:

I buy a tool from Sears, it fails to provide satisfaction, and I haul it in for warranty. A defective tool is replaced with new.

I buy a tool from Sears, it fails to provide satisfaction, and I send it with a friend who happens to be going to Sears. He hauls it in for warranty, but it isn't his tool. A defective tool is replaced with new.

I buy a tool from Sears, I give it to my friend for his birthday. It fails to provide satisfaction. He hauls it in for warranty, he didn't buy the tool, and he didn't pay fair-market value. A defective tool is replaced with new.

I buy a tool from Sears, it fails to provide satisfaction. I haul it in for warranty, then give it to my friend's cousin's brother-in-law's neighbor. He gets a new warrantied tool that he didn't get from Sears, and he didn't pay fair market value for it. A defective tool is replaced with new.

I buy a tool from Sears, my friend's cousin's brother-in-law's neighbor buys it from me, it fails to provide satisfaction. He hauls it in for warranty. He gets a new warrantied tool that he didn't get it from Sears, and he didn't pay fair market value for it. A defective tool is replaced with new.

In every situation, the IMPORTANT facts are the same: The tool failed to provide satisfaction, and the tool was warrantied by Sears ACCORDING TO THE TERMS OF THE WARRANTY. If Sears cannot warranty the tool because some pinhead decided to drop that item from inventory, Sears owes the customer "satisfaction"; by which I mean fair market value of a NEW replacement, which can only be estimated based on an adjustment of previous pricing corrected for inflation, or current price of competitive products which Sears employees are unlikely to know about and unable to research in a timely manner.



The warranty follows the tool, not the owner. Sears has plenty of lawyers. Sears CHOSE to offer an outstanding warranty. That fact should be the END of the sniveling about collecting on that warranty--Sears clearly intended to warranty the tool without regard for who shows up at the counter to collect on the warranty.

 

[kctyphoon]

Wow - I think this has gotten blown way out of proportion..

 

[VintageOkieDriver]

I agree the warranty follows the product with the terms and conditions as originally stated. As a retired fleet manager....if the vehicle is still under warranty when sold to the second owner the balance of the warranty still applies.

 

[wmm2]

I find a lot of the messages on this thread ironic. On one hand, a lot of the messages contain language from people making up what they think the rules should be. (despite what Sears warranty actually says). Then on the other hand, we have a whole set of rules for "You ****"; congratulating people for taking advantage of another person and getting a tool for far below its actual value. I think the old term for that is talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[tjpavlov]

Hypothetical: if the OP had paid $40 at the garage sale how would we all feel?

 

[Cruzan80]

Like he paid too much for a broken tool?

 

[Tinner]

Gotta love the GJ Morality Squad. They have their own interpretation of the rules, so they can tell others how to live.

This attitude is about far more than the Craftsman warranty. It's about a bunch of miserable, intolerant people who blame everything wrong in this world on people who are not like them. The good news is they are a vanishing demographic. Good riddance.

 

[no704]

Had a friend who cut a box wrench in half, in need of a stubby. Took both haves to Sears and got two new wrenches. Maybe wrong, but how dumb is the counter guy not to call him out on this?

 

[R.Anderson]

I don't think it has anything to do with "lawyers".
It's more a symptom of what's become the somewhat dysfunctional society we live in, where "getting over" on someone else is considered acceptable behavior.

We instructed our sales people that regardless of condition, any Indestro tool brought back for "warranty" was to be replaced free of charge with no questions asked. Period.
That included items such as their 3/8" drive hex-bit drivers, which were stamped "NOT GUAR" right on the tool.
Our sales pitch was "Unconditional lifetime warranty" - no questions asked. Didn't matter if the 1/2" drive 12-point deep-well had clearly been blown apart on an impact gun, or if the 9/16" combination wrench had been bent in a vise, or if the guy had bent the 1/2" drive 22" breaker bar using six feet of pipe on it (see HERE: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5238819#post5238819 ) - we replaced it.

So I "get" that side of the argument.

The part that those who would take a $1.00 garage sale item back to a retailer for "warranty" is the ethics part.
Just because you can doesn't always necessarily mean you should.

Or as another member succinctly put it:



Take this to another level:

Just because your 14-year-old daughter is dumb enough to let the neighbor boy pull her ******* down and take advantage of her, does that make it okay?

Ethics are ethics - no matter how you slice or dice it.

"my favorite Indestro warranty story:

Quote:
Originally Posted by four.cycle, in a private message to the aforementioned Ebay member

well... good luck trying to break one.... Indestro wasn’t known for “thin wall” sockets (with a few exceptions on specialty items like the oil-pressure sending socket).

I used to stop at the warehouse and pick up all the daily orders on my way to the Yelm store when I was working up there on the counter. I usually didn’t get up there until about 10:30 or 11:00.

I arrived one morning and Jim, our opening man, had left an Indestro 1/2” drive 22” breaker bar back next to the coffee pot – he wanted to make sure I saw it when I got in.

It had a slight curve to it on the shaft – about a third of the way down from the business end of it – at about a 30-degree angle.

I picked it up and walked out to the counter with it and asked him “What’s the story on this?”

“Well, a couple hours ago a GREAT BIG guy from the Nisqually Tribe walked in and set that down on the counter and just kind of glared at me. He was about 6’6”.”

“So what’d you do?”

“I asked him ‘How long a piece of pipe did you have on it?’, and then continued “He said ‘Oh... about 6 feet’”

So what’d you do then?”

“I walked over and grabbed one off the rack and handed him a new one.”

“Okay. Let’s leave this next to the coffee pot and show Harold.”

A couple hours later Uncle Harold showed up, walked back to the coffee pot, and came out with the breaker bar in his hand.

“What’s the story on this?” he asked.

So Jim told him the story, and then asked what should he fill out on the warranty tag to return it.

“Warranty hell,” said Harold. “Hang that sonofabitch back on the rack.”

So we did.

About three months later a guy came in, wandered around a bit and then Harold and I watched him wander over toward the tool racks.

He pointed at the breaker bar with the bent shaft and said “I’ve been looking ALL OVER for one of those!”

Harold rang it up at full retail price.

True story."

-Restocking a damaged tool.
-It was not made aware to the customer it was bent not a specialty tool.
-Selling the bent breaker bar at full price.

So I got to ask, what type of ethics is this?

seems to me two wrongs trying to make a right.

 

[R.Anderson]

I find a lot of the messages on this thread ironic. On one hand, a lot of the messages contain language from people making up what they think the rules should be. (despite what Sears warranty actually says). Then on the other hand, we have a whole set of rules for "You ****"; congratulating people for taking advantage of another person and getting a tool for far below its actual value. I think the old term for that is talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Darn good observation and I agree, it is ironic.

Had a friend who cut a box wrench in half, in need of a stubby. Took both haves to Sears and got two new wrenches. Maybe wrong, but how dumb is the counter guy not to call him out on this?

Darn good thing that does not work with paper currency.

 

[BFBOB]

Let's try this again. All of you, please READ the warranty below. Now, point out where it says anything about who bought it where.

Craftsman (or Craftsman Industrial) Hand Tool Full Warranty

If this Craftsman (or Craftsman Industrial) hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction, it will be repaired or replaced free of charge.

 

[KaHuNaZ]

I have to admit. I came into this thread on my high horse, but now I'm questioning my ethics on this issue. You have to ask yourself if Sears knew this kind of thing would happen and decided that the benefits of having a warranty like this far outweighed any loss they might incur by swapping out tools. I wonder how many people over the years chose to buy craftsman tools over another brand simply because of the warranty. I know I have.
A lot of companies have jumped on the "lifetime warranty" bandwagon over the years, but most have clauses like needing a receipt or redefining the word "Lifetime" to mean expected lifetime. This lead to other companies using "unconditional lifetime warranty" to further differentiate themselves. I don't think people using the craftsman warranty has much to do with why craftsman has been going downhill. It probably has more to do with them not staying competitive. Theres some stiff competition out there with higher quality tools for less money.

 

[SchwansManDan]

when you have a group of people who break every rule they can get away with, we end up with stricter rules, less trust, and a society of thieves who feel they have to compete on the same level if they simply want to stay in the game.

Not to mention the manufacturer/retailer churning out cheap **** in place of the quality products they once sold, and/or changing their warranty guidelines.

This same principle is what now guides Comcast, Bank of America, and every other company that ignores laws they think they can break as long as they make a buck.

Amen.
I really hate Comcast (former employee) and Bank of America (former stockholder).

 

[i4ni]

I smell pants on fire.

 

[Schurkey]

Let's try this again. All of you, please READ the warranty below. Now, point out where it says anything about who bought it where.

^^^ Agreed.

Now David Figler, a vice president of the company, has responded [in 2009] and said, “We stand behind the warranty—complete satisfaction—period.” Below is his email, and a portion of the memo he sent to Sears stores on the matter.

The entire article is too long to quote. PLEASE read it for yourself:
https://consumerist.com/2009/03/25/sears-clarifies-craftsman-tools-warranty/

 

[Hybridss]

Ethics/morals are almost nonexistent among a lot of people. It's sad. To them, nothing is unethical as long as some "sucker" allowed them to do it (employee at Sears). I'd feel dirty buying a busted tool and returning it for a free $40 gift card.

It violates the spirit/ethics of the Sears lifetime warranty.

Those here that keep bringing up ethics and morality seem to be the ones that least understand those terms. Ethics and morality, despite what many intuitively feel, has never been black and white. Ethics always falls on a continuum. Ethics are fraught with traps and exceptions.


Lets stake out two polar examples using the Craftsman tool Warranty as our example.

Scenario 1:
A new mechanic purchases a Craftsman tool box and a huge set of tools from Sears at a cost of $750 He pays the $750 because he knows Craftsman tools have a certain level of quality and that they have a great warranty. Both of these things add value and raise the price. He uses the tools for 1 year as a mechanic and decides he doesnt like being a mechanic and sells the entire box and tool set for $500. The new purchaser buys the tools at that price knowing Craftsman has a certain level of quality and a great lifetime warranty. He uses the tools for 3 years and a ratchet begins to skip on him. he takes it back and it is replaced under the lifetime warranty.

Scenario 2:
Joe Blow mechanic buys Craftsman tools because they have a certain level of quality and they have a great lifetime warranty. Joe uses regular Craftsman sockets with his Mac Daddy impact wrench with the pressure turned up to 150 psi and routinely cracks the non impact rated sockets. He takes 10 or 15 back to Sears every month to warranty them out and proceeds to put them back into service using the impact gun on them. He has no intention of buying the correct impact sockets because Sears keeps giving him new ones. He does not divulge that he is misusing the sockets, as a matter of fact many times he lies and says he is NOT using an impact when questioned.

Does anyone here make the claim scenario #1 is unethical?. I certainly hope not. This is a clear case of using the warranty within its scope and intent. Sears even benefited from this broad warranty on initial purchase by being able to charge more initially since their warranty increases value.

Scenario 2 is clearly unethical in intent and deception.

But what about between these two obvious spaces? What if the person in scenario 1 had purchased the tools and box for $300?
What about $200?
What about $50 because the guy needed money today?
What about the tools and box being given as a gift?

None of these scenarios cross any ethical boundary line when run against the language of the warranty. if anyone thinks so please show how and why. Purchase price is not a factor.

Now on the other end of the scale...lets say someone buys a broken ratchet from a garage sale with the intent to return it. The only ethical pitfall I see here is the guys does not know how the tool met its demise. It may have been mistreated. It would be less than ethical to attempt to warranty a tool that you know was previously mistreated. Regardless of purchase price.
You might be ok if you bought a tool that was broken that had no signs of misuse. But things certainly get dicey here.


I would also say that purchasing broken tools in quantity with the intent to resell as new and make a business out of it would be less than ethical. But that is my opinion.

IMO you Ethics Police need to clarify your reasoning a bit more. Just stating "it makes you feel dirty" is not a convincing and logical position.

 

[gdocktor3]

I think this thread can die now. People will continue to do it, others will frown upon it. In the end, it's the discretion of Sears' management and not us. That's it. End of story.

 

[M6erfan]

Hybrid,

Yes, It's all about intent. Running around garage sailing buying old sometimes broken tools, with the intent to warranty them, well I'll let other judge the ethics of that...

 

[bczygan]

Life's too short to read threads like this.

20 minutes I'll never get back.

Good points from all, and things to ponder.

Soon I think the quality of Craftsman products will be such that returning them won't be worth the effort, or the line will disappear, making the question moot.

Bill

 

[Mechanical Noise]

Had a friend who cut a box wrench in half, in need of a stubby. Took both haves to Sears and got two new wrenches. Maybe wrong, but how dumb is the counter guy not to call him out on this?

For the most part, Sears employees on the floor have little training, high turnover and low pay.

Sears seems OK with that arrangement.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

The Craftsman hand tool warranty was inspired by the LL Bean guarantee:

Our products are guaranteed to give 100% satisfaction in every way. Return anything purchased from us at any time if it proves otherwise. We do not want you to have anything from L.L.Bean that is not completely satisfactory.

NPR did a story about the Bean guarantee a couple of years ago. Here's a quote:

L.L. Bean has an astonishingly lenient return policy. The company has taken back a live Christmas wreath that had turned brown and a shirt ripped by a rescue crew after a car accident. My own Planet Money colleague, Lisa Chow, has been returning her L.L. Bean backpacks for two decades whenever a zipper breaks. She's gone through three or four backpacks this way. Every time, they send her a new one free.

http://www.llbean.com/customerService/aboutLLBean/guarantee.html

 

[ChaseDE]

Sears makes mistakes like everyone else. IDK if I would take that gift card but I wasn't there either. Here is a sears story...

My wife and I bought our first house like 15 years ago. We bought a brand new set of washer and dryer from sears. They get delivered and I hooked them up and the washer doesn't start, run, anything.

Call sears, they are very helpful and apologetic saying they'll send someone out. Guy comes out and figured it's a bad timer and says he'll return. Wife gets upset after a few days of not hearing anything, we spent good money, she calls sears and chews them out.

Sears apologizes again and schedules a replacement washer to be delivered, and it was delivered in a few days. Once the guy drops off the new washer I ask him can he take the broken one "oh no, we send a separate team to pick that up"

Well, ok then....

we wait and wait, we called 3 different times over the next few weeks to have the broken washer picked up and they said each time they would get it picked up. i waited 3 months and nothing.

so i bought a timer on ebay and sold the washer.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

Sears makes mistakes like everyone else. IDK if I would take that gift card but I wasn't there either.

What happens inside Sears can be so murky, I'm not 100% sure the overvalued gift card was as mistake.

Overvalued Sears gift cards handed out at the tool register are very likely to be spent on Craftsman tools. Craftsman sales go UP at the expense of the Sears bottom line.

Craftsman brand is up for sale and looks more valuable. Sears is doomed, anyway.

Probably not happening, an account would catch it and it's a penny-ante scam, anyway.