Thank you sears!

[Sal Bandini]

I love these threads. It brings out all these do-gooders.

Real world question for you morally superior beings:

You buy an item at Menards with 11% rebate. You submit the rebate. A week or so later you realize you don't need/want the item and go to store to return it. The store will issue credit for the original purchase price.

Do you insist they give you 11% less back?

 

[Art From De Leon]

"Overvalued Sears gift cards handed out at the tool register"

The key word being "overvalued".

No different than having a coupon that gives you 50 cents off on a 24 or 30 count package of toilet paper, or $1 off on a bottle of shampoo.

Neither the manufacturer, and certainly not the retailer is losing any money on the deal.

Do you think Harbor Freight is losing any money with all their coupons, double coupons, and parking lot sales.

Junk is junk, and NO amount of freebies or discounts will change that.

Maybe the OP wasn't entirely ethical in getting a second hand tool replaced, but Sears certainly didn't lose any money on the deal, and they would NOT have lost anything even if they had replaced the American made tool with another American made tool, instead of some Chinese made POS.

If Sears was totally honest, why do we read the posts about Sears NOT honoring their warranty?

 

[gdocktor3]

I love these threads. It brings out all these do-gooders.

Real world question for you morally superior beings:

You buy an item at Menards with 11% rebate. You submit the rebate. A week or so later you realize you don't need/want the item and go to store to return it. The store will issue credit for the original purchase price.

Do you insist they give you 11% less back?

They don't even send in the rebate in the first place I'm guessing...

 

[Mechanical Noise]

Do you think Harbor Freight is losing any money with all their coupons, double coupons, and parking lot sales.

Retailers lose money on individual items all the time. There are no guaranteed profits. They usually make the money up on other sales. Sometimes not. It's a gamble and not every hand is a winner.

If Sears was totally honest, why do we read the posts about Sears NOT honoring their warranty?

There you have it. Sears isn't always totally honest. Several court judgment would confirm. Does this point continue with another death spiral into the ethical abyss?

 

[Gautama]

I love these threads. It brings out all these do-gooders.

Real world question for you morally superior beings:

You buy an item at Menards with 11% rebate. You submit the rebate. A week or so later you realize you don't need/want the item and go to store to return it. The store will issue credit for the original purchase price.

Do you insist they give you 11% less back?

Yes, I would notify them about something like this. I routinely also notify a cashier if they forgot to ring something up. Why is this surprising?

 

[clmeredith]

I love these threads. It brings out all these do-gooders.

Real world question for you morally superior beings:

You buy an item at Menards with 11% rebate. You submit the rebate. A week or so later you realize you don't need/want the item and go to store to return it. The store will issue credit for the original purchase price.

Do you insist they give you 11% less back?

I do know if you return said item during rebate time you lose your rebate.

 

[Gautama]

There you have it. Sears isn't always totally honest. Several court judgment would confirm. Does this point continue with another death spiral into the ethical abyss?

So, if someone else isn't honest then you don't have to be either? That mentality is exactly what I was complaining about in my first post.

I get the distinct impression I'm being mocked for being a "good" person. I don't have any notion that I'm better than anyone else. Ultimately, people will do whatever fits into their value system. But I'm satisfied that it's at least being discussed and people are having to think about why they've decided that these things are OK or not.

 

[Sal Bandini]

I do know if you return said item during rebate time you lose your rebate.

Wrong. You get the full purchase price back.

 

[kctyphoon]

I wonder what would bring out the most criticism on here - returning a used garage sale tool to Sears, or someone saying they ran over a cat cause "he" didn't move.... I'm on the side of the cat personally..

 

[clmeredith]

Wrong. You get the full purchase price back.

Correct but then there is no rebate for the item coming in the mail

 

[Git]

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right

Examples

A person goes out before Super Bowl weekend and buys a 80" TV from Best Buy. He has a big Super Bowl party, they watch the game on it and then he returns it a week later for a full refund.

A person doing some work on their house runs down to Home Depot to buy some tools they needed. After they are done, you take the tools back for a full refund.

IMHO - returning a broken garage sale tool to sears is basically the same thing...

 

[Mpower5266]

Just playing devils advocate here but I managed a tool department at sears, and corporate didnt care at all why a tool was returned under warranty. I had a customer that brought in a giant tupperware bin full of tools he recovered from his garage burning down and he wanted to warranty them. I felt like that was dishonest since he said he was also getting a check from insurance for all the tools. I took this info to corporate and they told me to cover the tools.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

So, if someone else isn't honest then you don't have to be either? That mentality is exactly what I was complaining about in my first post.

Glad you're back in the conversation and I'm glad to clarify.

If you've found some indication of a ***-for-tat mentality of dishonesty in my comments in this thread, please point them out. I like to think I'm honest, but that's only my opinion of myself. If I were truly dishonest, the easiest person I'd lie to is my self. Personal honesty is not really my call, it's a call for others to make.

As far as my comment goes, I thought part in the post about Sears not losing money and the Chinese tools was somewhat similarly a little over the top. I should have made my cheap shot clearer.

Not that there's no place for dishonesty with dishonest or despicable people. If this is 1942 Holland, and the Nazis come looking for the Jews hiding in the attic, you can be damn sure I'll be dishonest.

I get the distinct impression I'm being mocked for being a "good" person. I don't have any notion that I'm better than anyone else. Ultimately, people will do whatever fits into their value system. But I'm satisfied that it's at least being discussed and people are having to think about why they've decided that these things are OK or not.

No, I don't know you personally and I have only your words to go on. I continue to believe that there was nothing immoral in the original poster's accepting a gift card for a broken tool. And I believe the spread of that presumed immorality will have us devolve into a society of thieves is ridiculous.

So, would you clarify some points for me?

You wrote:

Yes, Craftsman has a lifetime warranty, but it's clear what the intent of that warranty is by the terms of it: the original purchaser of the tool is entitled to a replacement assuming they didn't abuse the tool. That's it.

Just where will people find this clarity about the original purchaser and abuse intent?

By my reading of the Craftsman warranty, it's obvious that Sears exchanges broken and abused tools with the current owner without question.. Good business or not, It's not a matter of the manager looking the other way, it's Sears policy. So how is exchanging a broken garage sale tool sneaky, let alone dishonest?

Would you see this situation differently if the Sears employee said "I can't help you with the tool, but please accept this promotional gift from Sears and enjoy shopping!"?

 

[Mechanical Noise]

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right

Examples

A person goes out before Super Bowl weekend and buys a 80" TV from Best Buy. He has a big Super Bowl party, they watch the game on it and then he returns it a week later for a full refund.

A person doing some work on their house runs down to Home Depot to buy some tools they needed. After they are done, you take the tools back for a full refund.

IMHO - returning a broken garage sale tool to sears is basically the same thing...

To a large extent, it is the same thing. But is it right or wrong? Is it even a binary choice?

I haven't given my full opinion of what the OP did. I have disagreed with "wrong" point of view.

I have no problem with someone exchanging a garage sale tool even an abused tool if Sears has no problem with it. The exchange itself is neither wonderful or terrible, I'll give it an OK. Sears must see some benefit to doing it that way, or else they would have stopped it.

I'm a little bothered by the amount. $40? Don't know what it actually retails for but $20 seems on the high side. Not knowing better, I'd offer $20. The amount the clerk offered is neither sky-high nor dirt cheap. I'd call it a bit excessive. But, maybe handing out excessive gift cards was another odd Sears turnaround strategy.

I'm a little bewildered that there's an extreme position on all this. The Moral Outrage seems misplaced. I don't believe this is the sort of thing which rots the human soul or will trigger the decline of civilization.

I'll admit I do like wondering about what's happening at Sears, much like history buffs are still thinking about the Roman Empire.

 

[PugetDude]

When HF buys Craftsman, will these ad nauseum craftsman warranty threads go away?

 

[jd_1138]

Just playing devils advocate here but I managed a tool department at sears, and corporate didnt care at all why a tool was returned under warranty. I had a customer that brought in a giant tupperware bin full of tools he recovered from his garage burning down and he wanted to warranty them. I felt like that was dishonest since he said he was also getting a check from insurance for all the tools. I took this info to corporate and they told me to cover the tools.

Doesn't make it right, though, for the dude to essentially defraud Sears out of obviously abused (burnt in a fire) tools.

It's like taking advantage of a "too nice" developmentally disabled person. If they are handing money out of their wallet, sure there will be a-holes who accept the money but most people would not.

Sears is trying to be nice and accommodating -- even to a-holes (in the hopes that the a-holes will be customers someday or continue being customers). And sure they get taken advantage of occasionally. Still doesn't make it right.

 

[franzdom]

It's like robbing someone then thanking them.

 

[Brian_WK]

I do think that it is fair that he brought the tool back looking for a replacement. I don't think it is right that he got a gift card that he used to buy a completely different tool not the one he was "trying" to warranty. Why buy/warranty a tool you don't plan on using. That's my only dilemma...

Brian

 

[Git]

Sears is trying to be nice and accommodating -- even to a-holes. And sure they get taken advantage of occasionally. Still doesn't make it right.

^^^^^^ This

Part of the problem with today's world - some people just feel 'entitled' to do something because they can

It seems that there is always that 10% that screw it up for everyone else

 

[lazer50]

Imo the op was wrong for doing that. And from what i can remember a line up tool isn't a warranty item anyway at least didn't used to be.i worked for a mill wright co. And hiring on my first tool purchase included line up pins/punches. And if we pried or tried to line up equipment other than how intended sometimes they broke and no replace from sears but that was years ago and beside the point.their policy may have changed.personally no i wouldn't buy a broken yard sale tool and try to warranty anywhere.

 

[Heel2toe]

This thread is out of hand. The warranty is a no questions asked sorta thing and isn't only tied to the original purchaser of the tools. People purposely cutting the tools modifying them, tools being in a fire then being brought back, sure I understand how that is taking advantage of the system.

However who cares if the tools were bought used or whatever happened? In the OP's case he bought it at a yard sale. So what? He wasnt trying to pull a fast one. He tried to get a replacement, which they didn't have and offered a GC in exchange. He didn't take advantage of them. And "oh they gave him a GC so it should be used to purchase the same tool" Are you kidding me? I can't believe how blown out of proportion this thread has become.

Almost all of my craftsman tools I purchased new myself however some are my father's. If I break one of his sockets should I not be able to get a replacement? How can you possibly think this?

 

[Git]

I see a lot of people like to quote the Sears Lifetime Warranty for justification. It's funny though - they never quote the first part.


WARRANTY SERVICE

To obtain the warranty coverage stated below, return the product to the retailer from which it was purchased. Coverage will be fulfilled according to the retailer warranty exchange procedure and may be subject to a limitation on the number of items allowed per exchange.

And just to clarify - the "retailer" would be the person or store where you bought the item

 

[Mpower5266]

Doesn't make it right, though, for the dude to essentially defraud Sears out of obviously abused (burnt in a fire) tools.

It's like taking advantage of a "too nice" developmentally disabled person. If they are handing money out of their wallet, sure there will be a-holes who accept the money but most people would not.

Sears is trying to be nice and accommodating -- even to a-holes (in the hopes that the a-holes will be customers someday or continue being customers). And sure they get taken advantage of occasionally. Still doesn't make it right.

I just see both sides of the argument. No where does craftsman state that the warranty is non-transferable. Its a warranty covering failure or defect, it does not specify if it is for the original owner or not. I never checked for a receipt or purchase history and was never told to do so.

"Craftsman (or Craftsman Industrial) Hand Tool Full Warranty

If this Craftsman (or Craftsman Industrial) hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction, it will be repaired or replaced free of charge.

This warranty does not cover expendable parts that can wear out from normal use within the warranty period. *"

That being said, I personally would feel a little shady turning in something I bought at a yard sale and would probably toss it. Honestly, a $3 tool wouldnt be worth the drive to sears. If it were one of the tools my dad or grandfather passed down to me, I would warranty it.

 

[Git]

I just see both sides of the argument. No where does craftsman state that the warranty is non-transferable. Its a warranty covering failure or defect, it does not specify if it is for the original owner or not. I never checked for a receipt or purchase history and was never told to do so.

But it does say return it to the place where you bought it from for any warranty work....

 

[Zapp Branigan]

While I don't condone scamming Sears, I also don't like being scammed by them either. You know, like when you take in a USA made tool and they give you back Chinese junk in exchange. Karma is a mofo.

 

[jd_1138]

While I don't condone scamming Sears, I also don't like being scammed by them either. You know, like when you take in a USA made tool and they give you back Chinese junk in exchange. Karma is a mofo.

I took in a wonky raised panel ratchet, and the nice lady pulled out a box of rebuilt ratchets and told me to choose one. I picked out one of their premium ratchets (made in USA). It had some scratches on it, but still nicer than a raised panel ratchet. I don't have CM stuff anymore. Now I use SK, GW, Williams, Proto, Vaco, etc..

 

[cliftonbros89]

I took in a wonky raised panel ratchet, and the nice lady pulled out a box of rebuilt ratchets and told me to choose one. I picked out one of their premium ratchets (made in USA). It had some scratches on it, but still nicer than a raised panel ratchet. I don't have CM stuff anymore. Now I use SK, GW, Williams, Proto, Vaco, etc..

Hope it wasn't a 3/8" drive 84T. My dad is on his 6th one in about a year and a half. They lock up in no time for him. Won't move, can't budge the selector either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beerman]

I used to work at Kmart (after they bought Sears) in a store management capacity. For whatever that's worth. In fact, I've been a regular member of this site, during the 2 years or so I was employed there.

We would typically get e-mails (as management) that had to do with Sears primarily (even though we were a Kmart). The whole Craftsman warranty thing was the subject of several e-mails that I had sent to me (even though it really didn't pertain to me or my position with Kmart).

Essentially, all of the studies have found that the C'man warranty brought all kinds of traffic into the store and those people that were there to warranty tools would MOST OF THE TIME, purchase something else while there-even if it was the wife picking up a 6 pack of ******* while Hubby warrantied and/or looked at tools.

At this point, I think Sears needs all of the traffic it can get. So if they have to rebuild a ratchet or two that's been abused, they'll take it.

 

[Cruzan80]

But it does say return it to the place where you bought it from for any warranty work....

No, it says to take it to the "retailer", not the place. And since Craftsman is only sold thru Ace, KMart and Sears, guess where it was most likely purchased from the "retailer"? Or are you suggesting that I have to go back to the original store, even if I move?

 

[ge.raam]

Hope it wasn't a 3/8" drive 84T. My dad is on his 6th one in about a year and a half. They lock up in no time for him. Won't move, can't budge the selector either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

6th one? Am still on my first one 3 years later!
Do you know if he's greased/ lubricated it? When I purchased the 1/4 three years ago it locked so I opened it and greased it and from then till now it just locked up.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[L.Cheapo]

I took in a wonky raised panel ratchet, and the nice lady pulled out a box of rebuilt ratchets and told me to choose one. I picked out one of their premium ratchets (made in USA). It had some scratches on it, but still nicer than a raised panel ratchet. I don't have CM stuff anymore. Now I use SK, GW, Williams, Proto, Vaco, etc..

I think I'd rather squeeze a cactus than a RP ratchet.

 

[cliftonbros89]

6th one? Am still on my first one 3 years later!
Do you know if he's greased/ lubricated it? When I purchased the 1/4 three years ago it locked so I opened it and greased it and from then till now it just locked up.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

2 of them locked up with in 5 minutes of use. He wasn't going to mess with taking it apart. So he'd send it back each time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Git]

No, it says to take it to the "retailer", not the place. And since Craftsman is only sold thru Ace, KMart and Sears, guess where it was most likely purchased from the "retailer"? Or are you suggesting that I have to go back to the original store, even if I move?

RETAILER:
A business or person that sells goods to the consumer

Sears warranty says return the product to the retailer from which it was purchased. The OP bought it from a garage sale - take it back there and see what they say

 

[Mpower5266]

But it does say return it to the place where you bought it from for any warranty work....

You are getting ridiculous, it was purchased from Sears at some point and it was returned to sears.

I took in a wonky raised panel ratchet, and the nice lady pulled out a box of rebuilt ratchets and told me to choose one. I picked out one of their premium ratchets (made in USA). It had some scratches on it, but still nicer than a raised panel ratchet. I don't have CM stuff anymore. Now I use SK, GW, Williams, Proto, Vaco, etc..

If you are sticking to your stance earlier in the thread, then you defrauded Sears. You didnt pay for a premium ratchet yet you ended up with one on a warranty exchange. You profited from their warranty policy almost as much as the OP.

 

[Mpower5266]

I used to work at Kmart (after they bought Sears) in a store management capacity. For whatever that's worth. In fact, I've been a regular member of this site, during the 2 years or so I was employed there.

We would typically get e-mails (as management) that had to do with Sears primarily (even though we were a Kmart). The whole Craftsman warranty thing was the subject of several e-mails that I had sent to me (even though it really didn't pertain to me or my position with Kmart).

Essentially, all of the studies have found that the C'man warranty brought all kinds of traffic into the store and those people that were there to warranty tools would MOST OF THE TIME, purchase something else while there-even if it was the wife picking up a 6 pack of ******* while Hubby warrantied and/or looked at tools.

At this point, I think Sears needs all of the traffic it can get. So if they have to rebuild a ratchet or two that's been abused, they'll take it.

Yes, exactly this. The tool, lawn and garden, and auto center were the only things keeping my store afloat. In fact over christmas, the profits from my department paid for almost all of the seasonal workers. Sears loves the warranty program, and will take a hit here and there just to get people in the door.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I don't think the morally wrong position is extreme at all, but I don't remember anyone here implying that civilization will rot or collapse as a result of this Sears' return policy dynamic or anything else occurring that's of equal magnitude. That statement is a bit of an exaggeration of the opposing viewpoint on your own part don't you think?

Sure, I was a bit over the top. But I'll let you be the judge of how much of an exaggeration I was making:

I often hear people say something akin to "it's a big corporation, they can afford it." Was I in a minority that I was raised to believe that taking something you didn't pay for is theft? Yes, Craftsman has a lifetime warranty, but it's clear what the intent of that warranty is by the terms of it: the original purchaser of the tool is entitled to a replacement assuming they didn't abuse the tool. That's it. Anything other than that is sneaky at best, dishonest at worst. Not only that, but when you have a group of people who break every rule they can get away with, we end up with stricter rules, less trust, and a society of thieves who feel they have to compete on the same level if they simply want to stay in the game. This same principle is what now guides Comcast, Bank of America, and every other company that ignores laws they think they can break as long as they make a buck.
:

What I have heard is that this sort of thing is a symptom of moral decline. Symptoms don't cause an illness, they pop up as a result of the illness already being there. If the illness gets worse the symptoms will get worse, if the illness gets better the symptoms will slowly disappear. Outward actions like warranty abuse don't cause morality to decline, declining internal morality is what causes outward action to decline. Two very different things.

Remember what started this discussion. The original poster bought a garage sale tool for $1. He noticed it was broken brought it to Sears to exchange. Sears didn't have another one and offered a $40 gift card instead.

As I've stated before, I don't understand the moral outrage.

No deception was involved.

In my mind, this is critical. It's not like the OP misrepresented the circumstances of how the tool was obtained or broken.

No one was cheated.

The exchange was entirely consistent with Sears policy. No one looked the other way, no one tried to pull a fast one. No rules were broken.

The exchange was an honest, legitimate transaction.

I'm baffled why anyone would consider the OP a thief or a fraudster.

 

[M6erfan]

My takeaway from this thread; Sears sometimes makes bad decisions (not news to me), some people benefit from this and don't care (not news to me either).

Done...

 

[Schurkey]

No one was cheated.

The exchange was entirely consistent with Sears policy. No one looked the other way, no one tried to pull a fast one. No rules were broken.

Depends. According to the guidance issued by that Sears Vice-President in '09, the guy should have received a cash refund instead of "store credit".

Unless that policy has since changed, it was the customer that was cheated, not Sears.

 

[lazer50]

That policy changed along time ago i deal with sears on a fairly regular basis unless its a store to store policy which is doubtful and if thats the opinion you have of the matter or your morals mine are different.

 

[Schurkey]

That policy changed along time ago i deal with sears on a fairly regular basis unless its a store to store policy which is doubtful and if thats the opinion you have of the matter or your morals mine are different.

1. Most people learned about punctuation in elementary school. Makes things easier to read.

2. Got evidence that the "policy changed"? A link? A statement? Anything?

i've got 4-5 screwdrivers with chipped tips, etc. will they replace them?

Are they "Craftsman" and not "Companion" or "Evolv"?

Is your store following Sears guidelines for warranty replacements?

Short answer: Yes.