Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT The 12-Gauge Garage

[Dan in Pasadena]

The only time I truly get LOT done is when I have way too much to do! When I have little to do I seem to drag things out.

Maybe you covered this but I missed it. The stone (whatever it is called, but it looks great) is attached to Hardie board I assume with tile thinset or maybe construction adhesive but how is the board attached to the wood wall behind it so it doesn't show?

I'm wondering if you figured out a neat way to use fasteners? Or some kind of adhesive?

BTW, your paint work is coming out very nice.....but it's a "slippery slope". Lol.

 

[keithh2oskier]

What a great thread! I have basically skimmed through every page (147) this past week! While I didn't read everything and especially the parts about the car aerodynamics your details and pictures have given me some awesome ideas for my own 440 sq ft of bliss. I really like your creative ideas for storing everything away since that is one thing my current garage lacks. I remember this garage from when I first signed on to GJ a few months ago and visited your website but never took the time to read through the whole build. While most of the stuff is going to be out of my price range, you definatly have some cool ideas that I hope to copy.

Also thanks for taking the time to respond to everyones questions for so many years. There is a reason your garage is internationally recognized! I have already sent your website to a few buddies to checkout!

Also congrats on the little ones. Max is growing up quick and it seems like Molly was just born yesterday! Of course thats because yesterday is when I read about it and now she is 1? Yowzers! My wife and I are expeciting our first in August so some of your safey ideas like rounded corners will be good to keep in mind as I plan my space out!

Thanks for the wonderful resource!

 

[Jack Olsen]

Maybe you covered this but I missed it. The stone (whatever it is called, but it looks great) is attached to Hardie board I assume with tile thinset or maybe construction adhesive but how is the board attached to the wood wall behind it so it doesn't show?

I'm wondering if you figured out a neat way to use fasteners? Or some kind of adhesive?

BTW, your paint work is coming out very nice.....but it's a "slippery slope". Lol.

I know. It might be just a matter of time before I get the whole house painted.

On the Hardie Board, I'm not sure I understand the question -- which might mean I did it wrong, of course. Do you mean how do I keep the Hardie Board from showing on the other side of the fence? On this side, the stone covers all of it. I attached the Hardie Board to some 2x4 stringers with decking screws. Then I covered the side facing the deck with the stone stuff. On the other side, the view is obscured by their cinder block wall.

And thanks very much keithh2oskier. And good luck with the new arrival. Your life will never be the same!

 

[STANIMAL]

We need an aerial pic to see how the new deck ties it all together .

 

[Jack Olsen]

Today I didn't get the time to do any deck stuff until 5pm -- which meant I had one hour. But the good news was that the dies for the steel structure that's going on top of the deck had arrived. So I decided to do a test bend of one of the lengths of 1-1/4" square tubing to see what a 17'-radius bend would look like.

One nice thing about having the deck covered with the 1/8" Masonite is that it was a simple matter to measure out 17' of string and scribe a section of a circle with a sharpie. Then I used my HF roll bender to bend one of the pieces to match that curve.

Here's the first piece in the bender. It's a 16' length of steel.

And here's a picture that shows the first two pieces bent to the same shape.

There are two sizes of curves I'm bending steel to, because there are three arches in this structure and then a set of criss-crossing arches between each of those. The pattern is based on a cathedral vault -- the arches will be Gothic arches instead of a simpler (and more utilitarian looking) barrel arch. This is the idea, with the arches and criss-cross arches made of steel. The criss-cross arches have to be slightly larger (I think) in order to maintain the shape on the outside of the vault.

It won't be as high a ceiling as you'd see in a cathedral vault. But it won't be low, either. I'm estimating the highest point will be about 18' above the deck. I'm still not clear on how well it will hold together, structurally. My thinking has been that if it worked for stonemasons in the 14th century, it's probably a pretty effective architectural shape. But we'll see.

So maybe I can get an aerial shot from up there.

 

[Matthewjb]

My thinking has been that if it worked for stonemasons in the 14th century, it's probably a pretty effective architectural shape

I love how you seem to be working it out as you go along.

I remember reading that the ideal curve for that sort of ceiling is an inverted catenary. A catenary is simply the shape a heavy cord makes when supported at both ends.

This article explains how Sir Christopher Wren used a similar principle when building St Paul's Cathedral. So you're in good company.

 

[Jack Olsen]

I love how you seem to be working it out as you go along.

I remember reading that the ideal curve for that sort of ceiling is an inverted catenary. A catenary is simply the shape a heavy cord makes when supported at both ends.

This article explains how Sir Christopher Wren used a similar principle when building St Paul's Cathedral. So you're in good company.

I'm working it out as I go along because my poor old brain has such a hard time working things out in advance.

I think the classic Gothic arch is this 5/4 one.

Unfortunately, that would make my roof much really tall -- something I'm not willing to impose on my neighbors. So mine is going to be kind of compressed down. Here's a picture of the arch part only set out on the deck itself. The ends will get trimmed and cut so they can be welded together.

There will be 7-1/2' or 8' vertical uprights uprights underneath the arch. The inside roof height will be right around 18'.

 

[Matthewjb]

Don't classic Gothic arches need external support to stop them collapsing? The cubic curve is self supporting.

Not that yours will have as much weight to support of course.

 

[billscamaros]

Do all of the guys in your neighborhood collect in your garage in the evenings to see what project you're working on? I mean, they've got to be thinking, "****, he's at it again!"

 

[Jack Olsen]

That's it. No heavy stone to hold up for me, just the pillars themselves and some shade fabric.

 

[Matthewjb]

That's it. No heavy stone to hold up for me, just the pillars themselves and some shade fabric.

And the wind load...

I'm sure it will be fine.

 

[SD_R/T]

Instead of painting stucco, check out a product called Fog Coat. You can read up about it on www.fogcoat.com. I've used it and it's great.

Good point.

Any reservations about letting the old stucco breathe? I've heard stories of paint blistering and accelerated underlayment deterioration due to sealing up the old stucco (no direct experience, mind you).

Great looking deck, btw!

 

[Huxley]

Don't classic Gothic arches need external support to stop them collapsing? The cubic curve is self supporting.

Not that yours will have as much weight to support of course.

Those are called "flying buttresses". I remember that from 8th grade but misplace my flashlight - that I just had 5 min. ago.

 

[The Boss]

Looks GREAT Jack - nice outside room!

 

[wrigh003]

Wow. Haven't looked in here in a while- it appears I have some catching up to do. That deck is incredible- love it. Very interested in seeing how you do the pergola/ shade fabric thing. Wouldn't work for me here (AL weather is a lot different than CA...), but I'm interested in seeing it come together anyway. The Petrolicious video is super cool too.

I'm inspired, for sure. Have you noticed that projects slow down for you now with 2 kids? I have three small boys and it seems everything takes about 43x the time it used to. Kudos to you for chugging along anyway, I know how hard that can be.

 

[alpinewhite]

Any reservations about letting the old stucco breathe? I've heard stories of paint blistering and accelerated underlayment deterioration due to sealing up the old stucco (no direct experience, mind you)

The only contractors who suggest painting stucco are painters. New stucco on new houses is not painted. It is designed to breathe. Once stucco is painted, it will now require painting on a regular basis. For the house to go back to its original breathable state, it will need to be sandblasted.

 

[Jack Olsen]

Thanks.

wrigh003, the answer on kids slowing stuff down is an unequivocal YES. I never appreciated how much free time I had until the presence of two toddlers made it all disappear. I laugh now when I think about how I used to feel like there was too much to do and not enough time to do it. I had no idea.

On the stucco front, it's entirely possible that I made the wrong choice. But now it's made. My house isn't actually traditional stucco. It's more like an exterior plaster. It's much softer than the neighbor's wall that I painted, and it doesn't have any texture to it like you normally see with local stucco. That might mean my decision to paint was even dumber. But the neighbor's place was built in 1936 and has been painted (and repainted) for decades. My house was built in 1925, but the plaster had been re-done about 20 years ago. It had enough damage from the ivy growing on it that it needed something. Maybe fog coat would have been smarter -- or re-plastering -- but now there's paint, so I'll report back on how it holds up. It's flat paint -- maybe that will be kinder to the plaster underneath (then again, maybe it will create problems of its own).

 

[STANIMAL]

Your neighbors dont mind you building right up to their wall ? painting their house ?

 

[Jack Olsen]

I spoke to the neighbor first and then also checked the color with him. He hadn't seen the wall since 1993.

The platform is low enough that I'm not subject to setback requirements.

 

[Zeke]

The only contractors who suggest painting stucco are painters. New stucco on new houses is not painted. It is designed to breathe. Once stucco is painted, it will now require painting on a regular basis. For the house to go back to its original breathable state, it will need to be sandblasted.

That's debatable. Yes, I was a union painter way back when. It's a long and drawn out debate as to this and as to that. A lot of it has to do with how the stucco is terminated at grade. For decades we have been using a weep screed 6" above grade which allows moisture to gravitate downward and out. It also prevents moisture at grade from wicking up the wall. Painting doesn't seem to have much of an adverse effect on this system.

However, on house like Jack's and mine (built in the same style in 1930), the stucco isn't broken before entering the soil or being captured by concrete on grade. In this situation, not painting is preferred. But, there are not very many houses left, even unpainted, that haven't suffered deterioration at the lower portion below and just above grade. So, they have to be repaired preferably with the screed being installed. Matching colors on 80 year old stucco is well nigh impossible.

Jack mentioned fog coat and I've seen it done a few times. A lot of the time fog coat is used in new construction to touch up dirt stained stucco in the lower region of exterior walls. Unpainted stucco is extremely vulnerable to stains coming off roofs or rain and irrigation bounce back from planters that aren't covered in mulch.

In closing here, the BIGGEST problem of painting stucco is not doing it properly. Simply painting with no preparation is poor practice. When I have done it, I misted the walls and applied a 25/75 mixture of bonder/sealer and paint followed by 2 coats of paint over a period of 2 days. I only use quality paint.

That always worked for me. YMMV.

 

[jumpa]

Holy organization bat man beautiful simply beautiful The need to make a show instead of cribs call it garages

 

[magnusk750]

A mineral surface should have a mineral , or water glass (?, not sure of the right word in english) paint, and the paint should be softer than the surface, that's the basic rules. I suppose though, that in a warm and dry enough climate you can break the rules without problems, in a climat like ours you can't. Oil based paints have though been used on lime plaster also in Scandinavia with success, but it's an art that needs so much knowledge that it's not really a practice any more.

 

[akdiesel]

Jack

This is going to be a great project. Can't wait to see the progress and results.
Side note. I have wanted one of those rollers for a year now but to ship it here is about $250 OUCH. Oh well sometimes it is nice to want.

 

[Jack Olsen]

Thanks. akdiesel, the roller is a lot of fun to use. But if I was facing $250 in shipping, I think I'd try and make my own. If you decide to try it, let me know and I can send pictures and measurements.

I've got mine working automatically now (with a HF pipe threader for power), and it's loud but very easy to use. Earlier today, I put the manual handle back on so the neighbors wouldn't have to wake to the sound of a pipe threader on full. Here's my 4-year-old son contributing to the effort with some young muscle.

We'll see how the painted stucco plays out. Some of the house had been painted in the past -- the can I used as a color and paint reference had been last used on the house 20 years ago. I can't see any problems with the old stuff where it sits, so I'll cross my fingers and hope for at least a few decades with the new.

Speaking of paint -- I'm back in town after a week away, and the first thing I did on the deck was to address a growing sense that the gray I'd picked wasn't quite right. I think there's probably one level in hell where all you do is re-paint slight variations of the color gray over and over again. It got very difficult to tell what had been painted (and was still drying) and what was the old stuff. Here's a shot with only a little bit of the old gray (which has a blue sort of cast to it) and a lot of the new gray (which has a warmer cast, and goes with the tiles better in real life). It's odd; in the photo the old gray might even look better than the new one with the tiles. But in person, that wasn't the case. It looked just a little bit 'off.' I think I could have probably lived with it for just that wall, but I've got plans for more of the same color around other parts of the deck and decided to bite the bullet and re-do the wall.

 

[birdshot]

I've been in hospitals that were not that clean. Amazing garage.

 

[akdiesel]

Jack

Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on that. All though the price for the unit which includes the dies and the wheel is a hard price to beat and if I can get it with out the shipping issue I will take it. Still looking around.

 

[Matthewjb]

the first thing I did on the deck was to address a growing sense that the gray I'd picked wasn't quite right.

On my monitor I think the new grey looks a better match (assuming that's the colour on the left and right).

But won't it fade anyway?

 

[bad_idea]

Do all of the guys in your neighborhood collect in your garage in the evenings to see what project you're working on? I mean, they've got to be thinking, "****, he's at it again!"

I'm not going to say I am on the same plane as Jack, but my neighbors do wander over often enough to see what I am up to lately. Fortunately I have loud neighbors, so they don't get pissed when I run a 4 1/2" grinder for an hour straight. I can only imagine Jack's neighbors!

 

[hippie2cams]

Jack, I finally reached page 148 which is the end of the thread,at least it is today. I have been looking a several threads to get some ideas on how to build the interior of my 30x40 space, now I don't know if I have the talent! This journal is the best one I have ever seen!Everyone wants to help anyone who is building, rebuilding or remodeling or even working in the Garage. Your garage should be the Inspiration for all to get out in the garage and see what you can do. Thank you for some vision. very much

 

[Cole Trickle]

I like how efficent and usable the space is.....good work

Cool 911!

 

[Jack Olsen]

Thanks very much, guys. I appreciate the dedication involved in wading through all 148 pages.

I spent a lot of time up in the air today (and yesterday), working on this pergola roof. I've revised the height down quite a bit (out of consideration for the neighbors), but I still need to do the top part first, and then raise it up on its vertical pieces second.

I'm honestly still not sure what the finished product is going to look like. Here's where the top part will start. What you see being held 10" above the deck surface will be raised up seven feet or so farther.

Here's the pattern of it -- although it looks very different depending on your vantage point.

 

[zak911]

Jack, all of your projects are outstanding and a great source for inspiration and ideas. I am specifically interested in more info on the Lista cabinet job so here are some questions if you don't mind.
1. Which diablo blade did you use (48T or 56T)?
2. What color and product did you paint the handles?
3. Can you explain more about the weld-up and metal finishing? The top cabinet lost its bottom and finished edge. I assumed you would weld it to the top of the bottom cabinet and grind and finish the weld thereby hiding it; however, in the pic I can still see a line making it look like the top cabinet is sitting on the bottom which would require a finished edge.

 

[akdiesel]

Jack

Nothing like building Rome in a weekend. This is going to be interesting. Waiting for results.

 

[sl94heap]

Jack,
I never post but your shop is AWESOME! I'm inspired to try to do someting with my junk pile. Thanks

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Jack, quite a busy weekend you've had! The arches look very graceful and will undoubtedly be the talk of the neighborhood when the fabric is in place.

I'm just dying to know what the plan is to raise them up 7'; will you be employing a mega-size version of the 'kid-cam'? lol

 

[Jack Olsen]

Jack, all of your projects are outstanding and a great source for inspiration and ideas. I am specifically interested in more info on the Lista cabinet job so here are some questions if you don't mind.
1. Which diablo blade did you use (48T or 56T)?
2. What color and product did you paint the handles?
3. Can you explain more about the weld-up and metal finishing? The top cabinet lost its bottom and finished edge. I assumed you would weld it to the top of the bottom cabinet and grind and finish the weld thereby hiding it; however, in the pic I can still see a line making it look like the top cabinet is sitting on the bottom which would require a finished edge.

Thanks!
1. The 48-tooth one
2. Rustoleum Anodized Bronze
3. The top cabinet's lower edge is welded to the top of the bottom cabinet. The bottom cabinet has a section cut out, but still has the original top and bottom. There's a thread on it here, but here are some pictures that might make it clearer.

This is the top one:

Going onto the bottom one, which has had its top re-connected:

I'm trying to remember how I got a clean line where the unfinished lower part of the top cabinet met the bottom cabinet. I might have just stitch welded in a few places and then used some kind of filler. But I can't remember right now.

Jack

Nothing like building Rome in a weekend. This is going to be interesting. Waiting for results.

Jack, quite a busy weekend you've had! The arches look very graceful and will undoubtedly be the talk of the neighborhood when the fabric is in place.

I'm just dying to know what the plan is to raise them up 7'; will you be employing a mega-size version of the 'kid-cam'? lol

I really hadn't gotten it into my head how big this section would be. And I actually reduced the overall height of the plan over the weekend. The total height is down to 16' now. The original concept would have had it be 28', which eventually got whittled down to 18' as I walked around and saw what it would do to my neighbor's views when it butts right up against two other pieces of property.

I am going to paint the top tomorrow, and run some wires for low-voltage lighting. And I'm hoping during some of that work I'll get a decent idea for raising the thing up. I've got a winch, some pulleys and some lumber. I'm sure there will be a way to do it without dropping the thing on my head. But if I don't post for a few days, someone should maybe call 911.

It's not all that heavy. But it's pretty big...

 

[Huxley]

Very appealing design! What else would we expect though.? Two questions:

1. Are you planning on using any horizontal members, or other bracing, to keep it from opening up at the bottom? (Think floor joists in an attic space or "extra" members in rafters).

2. I know your weather is good but where is the rain runoff going to go?

 

[Jack Olsen]

Thanks, Huxley. There are a few essential things to do on a project like this. One is to work out a plan so you can see how your structure is going to support itself. One is to use a proven design. One is to have some basic knowledge about how structures work.

I've absolutely failed to do those things.

So I'm working it out as I go along. I was hoping I could 'pre-stress' the roof juncture to accommodate the spread that the roof arch's lateral load would generate. I suspect that's not going to be enough, now that I'm seeing the thing sitting around me. So the Plan B on that front is probably going to be to put some aircraft cable across the span on the perpendicular arches (there are four of them). Each pillar -- there are 20 of those -- only supports 16 pounds of steel. But while that number seems low, I'm seeing a fair amount of lateral 'push' on the whole structure.

We get a lot of rain here. But the shade fabric I'm using won't block it. I've got similar fabric over our front patio, and it simply breaks the rain up -- turning it into a kind of mist, without the lateral movement -- but still allows the stuff to come down.

The older shade fabric has held up very well for years, now. The adjoining roofs have somehow made wind load a non-issue with the patio cover. I'm going to have to wait and see how things are going to play out on the new one.

 

[RobMiddleton]

Awesome garage. I've read a number of posts by you and Slickgt1 and think what you've done can solve a problem I have. Our garage floor is not sloped to drain away all the snow melt. The snow melts, spreads out all over the floor, then drains down the walls to the downstairs. From the forum reading I've done, it appears that a good tile person could slope the floor down to the door, and tile a band a few inches up the wall - and eliminating this nasty problem.

Is there a documented consensus that exists anywhere listing which type of grout, which type of tile, which type of bonding, etc. Or do I just need to scour the posts a while and put together my own list.

 

[Huxley]

Gotcha. I was picturing some cables too.

A rectangular frame around the base of the arches (i.e. "header" or your current 10" elevation) will go a long way to holding it together. The middle of the spans will want to push out more though. Prestressing those headers, with some bends, could work well but could be a bit tricky to achieve. Picturing it all going SPROING!!

I think your corner balancing experience might come in handy here. You just need to figure out how much horizontal force each arch junction is pushing out with. Put the junction on a good roller (or use some ice) and put the scale flat up against the wall. Then figure out how much curve your headers will need to push back with that amount of force. Sorry if that is confusing - feeling too lazy to whip out a picture.

Of course, tying each of those junctions into the fence/garage or other beefy support might work well and be simple too.

Looking forward to borrowing from your designs shortly.