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The basic framing question thread

gtivr4

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So I am virtually building my shop in Google Sketchup, and want to put in as much detail as possible. So I am "framing" it, and have lots of questions since I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous at this stage. I'm hoping to post a series of questions, and hopefully this will be a useful resource for others building as well...

Here are the building basics, its a stick built 18'x36' (the odd dimensions are due to awkward offsets from the property line), 12' high walls.

front34.png

rear34.png


Question 1: The sill plate would be bolted to the slab (right?), but how do you deal with joining two pieces lengthwise. Do they just **** up tightly?

sill_join.jpg


Question 2: In the corners, you would have what three studs? Does it matter how these are oriented? I am planning 2x6 framing, and since a 2x6 is really 1.5x5.5, you end up with a small (.5") gap. Does that matter?


studcorner.png


More questions to come, but I don't want to overwhelm right from the start! Thanks in advance for any help!
 
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IDASHO

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1. **** them up tightly, and try to make that joint match the layout of your studs, then either center the stud over the joint, or double stud it.

2. many ways to frame a corner, but yours fails to adress the need for nailers for the interior wall covering to fasten to.

I build them like this, the one on the left:

39-2.jpg
 

IDASHO

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Still missing a nailer for on of the walls. And you are wasting lumber.
Wood is a poor insulator as well.

The 3-stud design is the only way to go in my opinion.
 

leftyz

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What about doing the corner like this?
studcorner2.png
studcorner3.png
In these, the interior wall to the right has nothing to fasten to, which is why he suggested the other method. With his, you have a nice corner for nailing up drywall or OSB or whatever.
 
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gtivr4

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OK, I've updated the corners to the three stud design, very useful info so far!

Next question, the sill plate would be pressure treated (right?), and if the wall is built on its side and then lifted into position, would it also need a sill?

sills.png
vs
sills2.png


(the thicker portion is the slab, then the PT sill, and in image 1, the sill for the wall, in image 2, no sill).
 

GarageEnvy

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Go with the one on the right. No need for a second sill plate. Typically you'd build that wall laying down with the sill on it and set the whole wall over the top of your anchor bolts. It's a very good idea to double check your bolts to make sure they won't land right under a stud. Despite the best efforts of framers and concrete guys, it happens all the time. Remember to leave room for the plate washers. In my area we now have to use 3" washers.
 

csp

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Next question, the sill plate would be pressure treated (right?), and if the wall is built on its side and then lifted into position, would it also need a sill?

Yes the sill plate does need to be PT.

As said, nail the PT sill plate as the bottom of your wall (after you've drilled the holes for the bolts), then stand it up.

You also need to install a foam sill sealer between the contcrete and the sill plate.

Once all of the walls are up, another top plate is nailed on which ties all of the walls together and it has to be staggered so any existing joints in a wall are covered by a solid piece.
 
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nate379

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Well you can do it many ways, but on the buildings my Dad has built he did a sill plate on teh floor and built a wall with a sill plate as well. When you sheath the inside (drywall or whatever), keep it up off the floor 1.5" Wall won't get wet that way.

Also corners we frame like you have, though the one I did was 2x4 walls so there is a nailer for the inside. 2x6 wouldn't work out that way.

I didn't really thick of insulation. My framing was on a shed so it didn't matter.
 

mobetta

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put a course of 8" block around the slab and build walls on top of that. then your walls wont rot out from the bottom up. may be code in some areas.
 
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Stuart in MN

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I build them like this, the one on the left:

39-2.jpg

The method on the left also makes it easier to insulate the corner.

As far as matching the stud placement with the trusses, often the studs are on 16" centers and the trusses are on 24" centers so that won't work. However, with a double top plate it's not a big deal and lots of buildings are built that way.

It is a good idea to have the wall supported by a row or two of block to keep the wood nice and dry. As mentioned, if you're doing a foundation just build it a little higher. If you're going with a slab only they can still run a row of block on top of it - that's how my garage was built, and it's going on close to 20 years with no problems.
 
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DigitalFusion

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Im with Stuart on this one (and not just 'cause we are both from MN). The one on the right allows no insulation at all in the corner. I built mine like the image on the left.
 

nate379

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That is not possible if you frame wall 16" O.C. and trusses are 24" O.C. Only every other will be on a stud (that is normal layouts)

Don't forget to match your stud and truss layout. This way your truss sits directly over a stud.

As far as a frost wall, or course of block you can do that as well. I was figuring you were going to do a slab on grade. Getting up over grade shouldn't be an issue.... you should have your pad graded correct BEFORE the concrete goes in. I would not try fix a grading problem with a block wall unless I had no choice.

It pretty much amounts to there are most often many ways of doing something and all have their advantages and disadvantages. The first shop my Dad built was put up over 20 years ago and it is still in perfect shape. I don't know what you are looking at for ceiling height, but it would get you a bit more height as well.
 
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kb2tha

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Perhaps the 1-5/8 measurement is because he is familiar with old standards. A 2 x 4 used to measure 1-5/8 x 3-5/8. 2 x 6, 1-5/8 x 5-5/8. Going back more years though than I can remember. I agree with the 3 stud corner for interior nailer and added insulation value. :)
 

ddawg16

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When I did my corners, per the CA code, I used 4x6's. It was actually a bit easier....and gave me plenty of nailing space.

On the anchor bolts....don't depend on the concrete guys to get the anchor bolts in the right place.....my mistake was not checking it. Before the pour, go out and mark on the forms where the studs will go (16" spacing). Then make sure the anchor bolts are at least 4" from the studs. After the concrete is poured, take you sill plate (PT wood), lay it next to the bolts and mark where the holes need to go...then drill the holes. Once you build the wall, just drop it down on top. (don't forget the plate seal)
 

nate379

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I helped build a house in Anchorage about 6-7 years ago and same deal with 4x6s in corners, also every so many feet. Then there were cables from corner to corner as well.

I don't know if they were just using CA building code or if Anchorage has more or less adopted them. Would make sense considering how many earthquakes we get. I do know that it's not done like that out here.

Been living in AK off and on for about 8 years and can only think of 1 earthquake that shook a bit. I have slept through a few 4 and 5s without even realizing.
 

srmofo

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In this pic you show just a short 2' piece for the bottom sill. Is this in your plans or was it just done for quick reference? assuming thats the 18' wall you should break that into a 10' and 8' sections instead of 16'/2' sections you have drawn.
 
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tcianci

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A lot of good advice so far. The most useful being that you need to be sure to get the wood framing of the building a minimum of 6 inches up off your finished grade. Thats not to difficult to accomplish on the 3 blind walls by either making the finished height of your slab to the correct elevation or by adding a course of block to set the wall on. The detail you need to remember is to have the ability to make the floor match up near to your grade and have the wall framing up out of the dirt where the door opening is. The easiest way to achieve the desired result is to pour your walls to a point of 6-8 inches above finished grade, and pour your slab inside of the walls. This will allow you to have the pour drop down in the door area and be high enough to keep the framing where you need it. Also, it is imperative that your frost pour go all the way across the door opening to the opposite wall and that when you pour the floor, all of the infill is removed from the frost pour so the that the slab pour will bear directly on the frost pour.

Since I started at the bottom, the next step is the sill... You do need to use a sill sealer and I would HIGHLY recommend using a separate PT sill and then framing the complete wall with its own bottom plate. Here's the reasoning... when you attach a sill to a foundation, you have a limited number of points where you will be attaching the sill to the concrete. Wood being what it is, you will have to make your J bolt holes a little over sized to let you straighten the sill material as you install it. These limited attachment points do not guarantee that your sill will be arrow straight. If your wall has a bottom plate of its own, you provide clearance for the J bolt washers and nuts in that bottom plate, stand the wall and then you have the ability to straighten the wall and fasten it to the sill as you go (if anyone thinks 36 feet of wall is going to be anywhere near straight just as you built it, I got a nice bridge for sale) Your best bet is to stand the wall, get each end where you want it with respect to the sill, tack it and then nail a small block of 2x stock to the stud at each end. String a line from block to block. This line is now 1.5 inches off the desired plane of the wall. You can then check the position of the wall with a 3rd 2x block used as a gauge between the line and the studs as you nail the bottom plate to the sill. This leads me to one more caution about setting the sill. I mentioned the limited attachment points, I should have also mentioned that at no point do you want the sill to fall any less than flush with the outside of the concrete. This all sounds kinda detailed but in reality, there is no guarantee that you concrete will be perfectly straight or the pour be perfectly square. These realities are much more easily addressed when you're working with just a chunk of 2x6 as opposed to 36 feet of 12 foot high wall. Then, you stand your wall, string it and straighten it as you nail it down. Your wall sheathing needs to extend down so that you can nail it off to the sill to get ample attachment and resistance to uplift. Your local code may require additional tie requirements. Your local code may also call for the J bolts to go through both the sill and the bottom plate of the wall, that's not the case in my area and it's a PITA sometimes when there is some relatively large straightening going on.

Your sill joints can be **** joints or if you want to get fancy, you can do a scarf joint. This involves cutting the sill board at a 45 degree angle and then the mating piece at 45 degrees as well, the advantage of this is that it lets you nail the sill pieces to each other at the joint (not really necessary if your using a separate sill and bottom plate)

As others have posted, you need to be sure your corner framing detail includes a inside nailer for the wall material.

While you will find a wealth of know how here at GJ, Now is the time to buy a good basic framing book. A good book will explain in detail the hows and whys of framing layout, wall straightening (you're going to need to do that as well at the top plate of each wall too) spring bracing, plumbing and leveling techniques and nailing schedules.
Hope this helps.
 
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WVBrady

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Termites

Around here, it is necessary to protect against termites by having the wood above the ground so that you can see any termite tunnels from the ground up to the wood. Also, we put a metal strip (termite shield) before the wood plate that projects out a couple of inches to prevent the termites from building a tunnel up to the wood.
 

uhcrandy

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you also need seismic straps. Its a nailing plate that ties the framing to the concrete. This is attached to the wall after its sheeted. The only holding the framing to the slab are nails in the endgrain of the 2x's (and the weight of the building). The base plate is bolted to the slab and the nail carry everything. Once the sheeting is in place this function is helped by the sheeting, that bridges from sole plate to framing members. The straps tie this all down to the slab. Goggle "simpson" and framing they have a great on-line catalog.
 

nate379

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Are you sure? I don't think he said anything about living in an area with earthquakes or tornadoes, though maybe I didn't catch that part.
 

rvr6000

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Maybe one of the contractors on here can answer this one. When I built my garage about 4 years ago I had to use stainless steel nails on the sill plate into the studs because the chemical used in the treating process would eat away at a common nail over time. I thought there have been some changes in the way lumber is treated now days so I'm not sure if that is still the case.
 

Doug B

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put a course of 8" block around the slab and build walls on top of that. then your walls wont rot out from the bottom up. may be code in some areas.

My garage has an 8" block foundation. The top 2 courses above grade are 6" block. 2x6 framing on top of that eliminates that little ledge the 8" block would leave. The same concept would work on a slab on grade.Put a course of 6" block around and keep your framing nice and dry.
 

Kevin54

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The way I would do it, is build each wall with the 2x6's and not worry about the corner until the walls are up. Then add the studs in accordingly. A 2x4 wall / corner is a simple 3 stud corner but when increasing to a 2x6 it changes the way the corner comes out. Add in the secondary stud after insulating the corner. This allows for the top plates to be tied in securely. Just make sure you stagger you secondary top plate opposite of your primary top plate.
 

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