The Best Light Fixture Ever!

[cybrdyke]

Need to get that first cup of coffee down before posting cybrd. If you click the link I provided, you'll see they are T8HO.

Maybe I'm missing something. Are you talking about the post below? Cuz all the references are to regular T8's (59w), not T8HO (86w).
The Sylvania ballast for T8HO is QHE 2x86T8HO/UNV-PSN-HT. (50304)
The Sylvania lamp is 22205, but there are several others to choose from.
.

Spend some quality time understanding this Sylvania QHE T8 59 8FT Spec Sheet.

Suggested replacement:

Ballast: QHE2X59T8/UNV-ISH $35.94/ea.

Lamp: SYLVANIA 22032 FO96/841/XP/ECO $12.91/ea.

 

[Platonic Solid]

cybrdyke, I thought you were referring to the "T8" part not the "HO".
Will S. can not use the Sylvania 22205 lamp as it is Recessed Double Contact (R17d), plus I believe these 700 series lamps are mostly obsolete at this point. See: Sylvania presentation of U.S. DOE Fluorescent Ballast Standards

 

[Platonic Solid]

Revised Spreadsheet:
1. Replace Cree LEDT8 with LEDT8P and remove related troffer based IES info.
2. Add 1.18BF for Cree and Sylvania LED Lamps. Unable to update Philips LED as BF data not provided.
3. Add BigAss Shop Light
4. Make Lamp Part No.s into active links

Here's the link (same as first post): Lighting System Comparison

 

[bczygan]

So the answer is to wait for a $20 off $50 at Lowes, split up your order for fixtures and boxes of 6,500K tubes, and order for store pickup (Like I did - 6 fixtures with bulbs for just over $100).

http://www.lowes.com/pd_420867-43921-MXL-103_0__?productId=4013485&Ntt=fluorescent+light+fixtures&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dfluorescent%2Blight%2Bfixtures&facetInfo=

 

[Platonic Solid]

So the answer is to wait for a $20 off $50 at Lowes, split up your order for fixtures and boxes of 6,500K tubes, and order for store pickup (Like I did - 6 fixtures with bulbs for just over $100).

Nice find, as long as you have the ceiling height to justify the reflector. Not sure about the 6500K, but that's personal preference as long as CRI is good. Can you define the exact ballast that's in the fixture and the lamp you purchased?

 

[cybrdyke]

Revised Spreadsheet:
1. Replace Cree LEDT8 with LEDT8P and remove related troffer based IES info.
2. Add 1.18BF for Cree and Sylvania LED Lamps. Unable to update Philips LED as BF data not provided.
3. Add BigAss Shop Light
4. Make Lamp Part No.s into active links

Here's the link (same as first post): Lighting System Comparison

Philips 16.5w tube 434886 with 1.18 ballast is 25.5 watts/tube and 2700 initial lumens per tube. http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com...sets/pdf/PLt-1309BN_LED_T8_IF_1.23.15_Web.pdf
CD

 

[bczygan]

Nice find, as long as you have the ceiling height to justify the reflector. Not sure about the 6500K, but that's personal preference as long as CRI is good. Can you define the exact ballast that's in the fixture and the lamp you purchased?

OK,
First some description of the fixture. It is a cord and plug type. The connections to the ballast are push in, so you could probably hard wire it. Might need to punch proper openings in the ends and bush them.

Entire fixture is metal painted white, inside and out including the end caps. It is wide enough (6 3/4") so that the reflector throws light fairly widely. I have just under 9' ceilings and have them temporarily mounted at about 8'. 6 fixtures in a 9 1/2' x 19 1/2' space give me almost 50 FC at 42" A.F.F. below the fixture and 30 FC between them.

There is a 6" pull chain with a clear plastic pull and a 5' white cord and white molded in grounded plug. A handsome fixture for an open shop light and the metal is mid range in thickness and sturdiness, but not flimsy at all. For an under $20 fixture, it's fine for my small shop. I will probably add one or 2 more for task lights when I raise these up to ceiling height and hard wire them.

Photos below show the fixture and ballast details. I know this is one that can cause interference, but for the price, it's OK for me.

I chose the 6500 bulbs because I like a clean and very white light towards the blue end of the spectrum. Soft white, with it's warm glow is for fireside lamps by the easy chair.

Photos show the details on the box of lamps. They had two different ones with the same basic specs and different stock numbers. If I remember correctly, one had longer life, higher lumens and better CRI. I chose that one as they were the same cost.

That's all I know.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

The rest of the photos:

 

[Electric_Light]

If the lamps fail early, blame the ballast.
There are some Sunpark, Fulham and such that burn the lamps outside of specs. You'll find out in a year or two.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Wow, thanks for posting all the pictures bczygan. Unfortunately UTILITECH has no website. I tracked them through their UL file number and the company is ZHEJIANG YANKON GROUP CO LTD in China. I won't be able to get IES files or ballast details.

 

[zable9]

Thank you for doing this. Appreciate your time and help

 

[Platonic Solid]

The Philips F32T8 28W ADV841 XLL ALTO #281279 is no longer on sale at Home Depot. I'll leave it alone for now as it's probably still $3 ea once you add shipping from these guys: standardelectricsupply

 

[kars85]

Thanks for putting this together! I'm in the middle of trying to figure out garage lighting right now, currently only have (5) 75W incandescent fixtures/bulbs at the moment and would like to move to LED since that's the cool kid on the block.

If I understand your spreadsheet correctly, will the Cooper SNF232R fixture work fine with the Samsung SI-L8T19112AUS that has the LED driver integrated into the bulb?

The Cooper fixture's information/description state they come with prewired sockets. What does this mean? There's direct AC wiring? Or, do they come with some generic garbage ballast wired to the sockets?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Stating that a light fixture comes with prewired sockets is like saying a car comes with preinstalled tires. It’s a retarded statement as they couldn’t UL Label it if the ballast wasn’t wired to the lamp sockets.

The Samsung LED is the only “Ballast Bypass” LED lamp on the list, (and the most efficient) which means you pull the ballast out of the fluorescent fixture (in this case the Cooper Metalux SNF232R), toss it and wire AC voltage directly to the lamp holders, Hot to one lamp end, Neutral to the other lamp end. In the case of the Samsung lamps the lamp holders must be non-shunted = see their instructions here. You’ll want to confirm that the fixtures you buy are NOT using instant start ballasts as those all use shunted lamp holders. Look for fixtures with rapid start or program start ballasts as they all use regular non-shunted lampholders. Worst case scenario, you get a fixture with the wrong lamp holders and you hit your local electrical supply place up for the right ones. If it comes down to it, post a picture and I’m sure I can locate the correct fit low cost lampholder to fit your fixture.

 

[kars85]

Stating that a light fixture comes with prewired sockets is like saying a car comes with preinstalled tires. It’s a retarded statement as they couldn’t UL Label it if the ballast wasn’t wired to the lamp sockets.

The Samsung LED is the only “Ballast Bypass” LED lamp on the list, (and the most efficient) which means you pull the ballast out of the fluorescent fixture (in this case the Cooper Metalux SNF232R), toss it and wire AC voltage directly to the lamp holders, Hot to one lamp end, Neutral to the other lamp end. In the case of the Samsung lamps the lamp holders must be non-shunted = see their instructions here. You’ll want to confirm that the fixtures you buy are NOT using instant start ballasts as those all use shunted lamp holders. Look for fixtures with rapid start or program start ballasts as they all use regular non-shunted lampholders. Worst case scenario, you get a fixture with the wrong lamp holders and you hit your local electrical supply place up for the right ones. If it comes down to it, post a picture and I’m sure I can locate the correct fit low cost lampholder to fit your fixture.

Thanks! Based off what you provided re: shunted/nonshunted related to the ballast type, I think the specific model I'm looking for of that Cooper fixture is SNF-232-UNV-ER81.

Although, I'm wondering if I'm pigeonholing myself dollars and cents-wise by focusing so much on that particular fixture. Certainly a fixture at Lowes can be had for cheaper, the problem is identifying the ballast type with it still in the box.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Thanks! Based off what you provided re: shunted/nonshunted related to the ballast type, I think the specific model I'm looking for of that Cooper fixture is SNF-232-UNV-ER81.

Although, I'm wondering if I'm pigeonholing myself dollars and cents-wise by focusing so much on that particular fixture. Certainly a fixture at Lowes can be had for cheaper, the problem is identifying the ballast type with it still in the box.

I say open the box if you have to. Why should the consumer be left in the dark due to a manufacturer not providing sufficient fixture info. Heck, go one step further and stand there while a store employee opens the box to answer your question.

If this $16.85 Cooper fixture is truly an F40T12, then it uses a rapid start ballast.

 

[mustangmike6996]

Excellent post!

 

[Edemoss]

I am new to this forum and have read everything on the light and light fixture that has been posted. I have 30 8' two bulb fixtures with T12 Fa8 ends. The fixtures are 14' high and I am going to be replacing the tubes with led bulbs. I can purchase these lights for $21.00 each by ordering 60 bulbs. The bulbs come from Lampbay in China. They can be found on EBay. I cannot by T8 bulbs and ballasts for what I can buy the Leds. I am going to use CW(6000K)
Any thoughs before I pull the trigger?

Part No. LB-T840W2400A
Optics Parameters Light Source 220pcs SMD2835
Luminous Flux(lm) 3900-4000LM
CCT(K) WW(3000K)/NW(4000K)/CW(6000K)
CRI(Ra) more than 75Ra
Beam Angle 180 degree
Light Attenuation ratio (%) less than 3% in 30,000Hrs
Lifespan (Hrs) more than 50,000Hrs
Electric Parameters Input Voltage(V) 85-265Vac
Frequency(Hz) 50/60 Hz
Input Current(mA) 173mA (@ 220 Vac )
Total Power(W) 40W
Power Factor 0.9
Turn-on Time(S) less than 0.05 S (@ 220Vac)
Dielectric Voltage Withstand Test 3750Vac/1min
Structure Parameters Material Aluminum+ PMMA
Size(mm) 2384*26mm
Net Weight(g) 0.8KG
Water Proof(IP) Indoor Use Only
Integrated Parameters Operating Temperature
Storage Humidity 0% ~ 95%R.H.
Safety Requirement CE
Environmental Directives RoHS

 

[Platonic Solid]

I am new to this forum and have read everything on the light and light fixture that has been posted. I have 30 8' two bulb fixtures with T12 Fa8 ends. The fixtures are 14' high and I am going to be replacing the tubes with led bulbs. I can purchase these lights for $21.00 each by ordering 60 bulbs. The bulbs come from Lampbay in China. They can be found on EBay. I cannot by T8 bulbs and ballasts for what I can buy the Leds. I am going to use CW(6000K)
Any thoughs before I pull the trigger?

Not possible to comment. The Chinese steal from each other constantly so you never really know what you're buying. They'll put anything in their literature. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on lamps that have no NRTL certification (UL, ETL, CSA), and no IES files, but that's just me. Just curious, what is the CCT of your current fluorescents and how do you like it? 6000K is a rather harsh blue light.

 

[soj]

Wow, thanks for posting all the pictures bczygan. Unfortunately UTILITECH has no website. I tracked them through their UL file number and the company is ZHEJIANG YANKON GROUP CO LTD in China. I won't be able to get IES files or ballast details.

I think Utilitech is a Lowe's brand. They throw it on lots of electrical stuff, not just lighting.
-jp

 

[kars85]

I say open the box if you have to. Why should the consumer be left in the dark due to a manufacturer not providing sufficient fixture info. Heck, go one step further and stand there while a store employee opens the box to answer your question.

If this $16.85 Cooper fixture is truly an F40T12, then it uses a rapid start ballast.

Thanks for looking and finding a much cheaper alternative - I'm planning on running out there over lunch here in a couple hours to pick up five. Turns out my local Lowes says they have the same model on hand and I'll get them to price match.

I'll try to open one up tonight and see if indeed they're shunted, or even easier, have the employee tell me if they're rapid start ballasts in there or not.

My success rate of questions answered a) correctly or b) at all at Lowe's is about 25%

Hoping we can be onto something here that's an easy retro for those sweet Samsung bulbs!

 

[Edemoss]

Not possible to comment. The Chinese steal from each other constantly so you never really know what you're buying. They'll put anything in their literature. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on lamps that have no NRTL certification (UL, ETL, CSA), and no IES files, but that's just me. Just curious, what is the CCT of your current fluorescents and how do you like it? 6000K is a rather harsh blue light.

I believe they are 3000K . Yes I like the lights. I am 69 and just need more light. I am open for any recommendation's.
I did check several of Lampbay's followers thru Ebay and they were satisfied with their lights and also "Lampbay2010" had no negative feedbacks on their EBay site.
Again would like your recommendation. Thanks Ed DeMoss

BTW they have a website called Lampbay.net and show 4 certification documents that I have no idea what they are.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I believe they are 3000K . Yes I like the lights. I am 69 and just need more light. I am open for any recommendation's.
I did check several of Lampbay's followers thru Ebay and they were satisfied with their lights and also "Lampbay2010" had no negative feedbacks on their EBay site.
Again would like your recommendation. Thanks Ed DeMoss

BTW they have a website called Lampbay.net and show 4 certification documents that I have no idea what they are.

Higher CCT doesn't translate into more lumens, it's just a different color temperature. The military has done extensive research in this area and has found 4100K +/-300 CCT to be the magic number, thus I recommend 4000K regardless of the lamp technology.

I've spoken to the owners of a few of the major players in this arena and their universal response is: "If I was looking for 8ft LED lamps I'd probably take the risk and buy the $22 lamps. Just don't complain if they die in 2 years."
As a comparison, This bulb from Ledtronics is about $100 each.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Thanks for looking and finding a much cheaper alternative - I'm planning on running out there over lunch here in a couple hours to pick up five. Turns out my local Lowes says they have the same model on hand and I'll get them to price match.

I'll try to open one up tonight and see if indeed they're shunted, or even easier, have the employee tell me if they're rapid start ballasts in there or not.

My success rate of questions answered a) correctly or b) at all at Lowe's is about 25%

Hoping we can be onto something here that's an easy retro for those sweet Samsung bulbs!

I would actually suggest you contact RemPhos for pricing on there RPT-SNT8-12LG-4000K lamp. I haven't included them on the spreadsheet yet, since they don't have online accessible pricing. The key with RemPhos is excellent lumen output and efficiency = 2400lm @ 17W. I will add them to the spreadsheet if you post what they quote you. I have pricing from them, but it's not applicable since I'm an OEM.

 

[Edemoss]

Thank you very much. you have given me a lot to think about.

 

[kars85]

I would actually suggest you contact RemPhos for pricing on there RPT-SNT8-12LG-4000K lamp. I haven't included them on the spreadsheet yet, since they don't have online accessible pricing. The key with RemPhos is excellent lumen output and efficiency = 2400lm @ 17W. I will add them to the spreadsheet if you post what they quote you. I have pricing from them, but it's not applicable since I'm an OEM.

Shoot - unfortunately I placed my Samsung LED order through Polar Ray yesterday before you mentioned remphos.com. Hopefully I won't be disappointed. Looks like that remphos unit spits out 300 more lumens than the Samsungs using 1 less watt

In other news, I unboxed one of the Cooper/Metalux SSF240's last night. From my amateur eye, it looks like the sockets aren't shunted! Less messing around on that front.

Right

Left

Ballast

 

[Platonic Solid]

Shoot - unfortunately I placed my Samsung LED order through Polar Ray yesterday before you mentioned remphos.com. Hopefully I won't be disappointed. Looks like that remphos unit spits out 300 more lumens than the Samsungs using 1 less watt

In other news, I unboxed one of the Cooper/Metalux SSF240's last night. From my amateur eye, it looks like the sockets aren't shunted! Less messing around on that front.

My fault for not saying something earlier, but I can pretty much guarantee the RemPhos would be more expensive anyway. I'm working on getting average consumer pricing.

Yes, those are non-shunted lampholders and a genuine F40T12 ballast (I didn't think you could get those anymore) complete with "internal electronic starter" - (OK, I know I'm the only one that thinks that's funny). Did you get them at the discounted price?

 

[kars85]

My fault for not saying something earlier, but I can pretty much guarantee the RemPhos would be more expensive anyway. I'm working on getting average consumer pricing.

Yes, those are non-shunted lampholders and a genuine F40T12 ballast (I didn't think you could get those anymore) complete with "internal electronic starter" - (OK, I know I'm the only one that thinks that's funny). Did you get them at the discounted price?

I'm so far removed from the specifics of lighting I'm surprised I'm pulling this off without a hitch (so far). Much thanks to your effort, I imagine.

I did get it for the discounted price. Lowe's price matched Fleet Farm and I took the 5% discount on my Lowe's card on top of that. I plan on taking some before and after photos, as well as a cost breakdown when I get done Saturday.

Thanks again!

 

[Platonic Solid]

I'm so far removed from the specifics of lighting I'm surprised I'm pulling this off without a hitch (so far). Much thanks to your effort, I imagine.

I did get it for the discounted price. Lowe's price matched Fleet Farm and I took the 5% discount on my Lowe's card on top of that. I plan on taking some before and after photos, as well as a cost breakdown when I get done Saturday.

Thanks again!

Glad to help. It's a give and take. One of the few LED lamps that I haven't actually had my hands on is the Samsung, so I'm looking forward to your pictures and real world experience comments.

Got pricing from RemPhos and it's way high - over $40 each, so I'm not even going to bother putting them in the spreadsheet. So Samsung is still winning the LED relamp race.

Impressive job on the price match +5%. That has to be the lowest cost real strip light I've ever seen. Have you rewired one yet?

 

[padstack]

A buddy of mine that works for a lighting company I had mentioned in another thread (met him at a trade show) is getting me a couple of these (not this exact bulb, but the 1600lm, 15W version, @ 4100K) for cheap (under $12 each). Any thoughts? Supposedly they don't deal with consumers, but he's hooking me up.
http://www.energyfocusinc.com/wp-content/uploads/EF-200D-oval-series-Specs3.pdf

 

[Platonic Solid]

A buddy of mine that works for a lighting company I had mentioned in another thread (met him at a trade show) is getting me a couple of these (not this exact bulb, but the 1600lm, 15W version, @ 4100K) for cheap (under $12 each). Any thoughts? Supposedly they don't deal with consumers, but he's hooking me up.
http://www.energyfocusinc.com/wp-content/uploads/EF-200D-oval-series-Specs3.pdf

I worked with them on some military projects, but I don't know anything about their commercial products. Can hardly go wrong at that price though. A lot of these manufacturers aren't interested in consumer level sales = similar to RemPhos.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I’ve been searching for an online calculator for those interested in determining an energy savings payback period to compare system “A” to system “B”. There are literally 100s of these “Energy Savings Calculators” out there, but many are manufacturer product specific. The “Payback Analysis” tab in the “Energy Efficiency Tool Kit” spreadsheet found on this Cooper page seems to work pretty good. You will need your kWh rate which can be found here: eia.gov for 2014 or, better yet, look at your electric bill for most current 2015 info.

 

[dogdas]

I may have miss this in all the posts but with all the talk about light output of fixtures what is the foot candles that guys use in their shops? I have a all painted semi gloss white plywood lid and halfway down the walls then darker gray from the floor to 4'. The floor will be light gray epoxy this spring. what foot candle power should I have for machining and assembling medium sized equipment. I see some tables go as high as 100 FC. that is a ton of fixtures.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I may have miss this in all the posts but with all the talk about light output of fixtures what is the foot candles that guys use in their shops? I have a all painted semi gloss white plywood lid and halfway down the walls then darker gray from the floor to 4'. The floor will be light gray epoxy this spring. what foot candle power should I have for machining and assembling medium sized equipment. I see some tables go as high as 100 FC. that is a ton of fixtures.

See Page 2 near the bottom: https://www.wbdg.org/pdfs/usace_lightinglevels.pdf
Vehicle construction/Maintenance = 500 - 1000 Lux = 50 - 100 Lm = 50 - 100Fc per square ft.

 

[dogdas]

See Page 2 near the bottom: https://www.wbdg.org/pdfs/usace_lightinglevels.pdf
Vehicle construction/Maintenance = 500 - 1000 Lux = 50 - 100 Lm = 50 - 100Fc per square ft.

Thank you very much. You are truly a wealth of knowledge on a subject that is expensive to experiment on.

 

[etchedimages]

I would actually suggest you contact RemPhos for pricing on there RPT-SNT8-12LG-4000K lamp. I haven't included them on the spreadsheet yet, since they don't have online accessible pricing. The key with RemPhos is excellent lumen output and efficiency = 2400lm @ 17W. I will add them to the spreadsheet if you post what they quote you. I have pricing from them, but it's not applicable since I'm an OEM.

Hi Platonic Solid,
Can I lean on you for some advice? I want to light a 3 car garage. I reached out to RemPhos Technologies LLC and they indicated that they would be happy to sell me LED retrofit T8 tubes (RPT-SNT8-XXLG-XXXX). Can you suggest a good vendor for the housings? What should I ask for? Obviously I'm a complete neophyte and electricity is not my strong point!
Many thanks for your response,

Stu

 

[Platonic Solid]

Hi Platonic Solid,
Can I lean on you for some advice? I want to light a 3 car garage. I reached out to RemPhos Technologies LLC and they indicated that they would be happy to sell me LED retrofit T8 tubes (RPT-SNT8-XXLG-XXXX). Can you suggest a good vendor for the housings? What should I ask for? Obviously I'm a complete neophyte and electricity is not my strong point!
Many thanks for your response,

Stu

The Samsung in the spreadsheet is much cheaper than Remphos, but Remphos does make a good product.
As for the housing, only manufacturers can purchase bare housings. Follow kars85's lead above and get:

$16.85 Cooper fixture

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

This is a nice thread, I'm bookmarking it for future reference. I didn't read all the replies, but thought I'd throw out this website for led comparisons
http://www.lightingfacts.com/Products
You can search based on manufacturer, type, or output etc and then compare. Pretty handy search tool if someone is looking at a brand they've never heard of.

 

[HammerMechanic]

subscribed to this thread just. Thank you for the wealth of knowledge.

 

[PushnFords]

I have a 4 car garage with 8ft ceilings that measures 50x25 with a dividing wall down the middle (basically two 25x25 garages that are connected. In one half there are 3 rows of four 4' fixtures parallel with the parking spaces and another row of four 4' fixtures along the front. I converted the 2 bulb 4' T12 housing to T8 using GE 71037 GE232-120RES-DIY ballasts. I fitted them with Litetronics L-359 - F32T8CB50 bulbs. I really like the amount & color of the lighting and I'm currently gathering what I need to put lights in the other half of the garage that currently doesn't have anything but a few cheap hanging fixtures. I've found some new fixtures locally on CL and plan to change the ballasts in those.

After looking over your spreadsheet it appears that the QHE2x32T8/UNV ISM-SC ballasts might be a better way to go...especially since I can find them for $16 vs $21 for the GE's that I used previously. When I'm trying to compare different combinations on your spreadsheet I'm not sure what to do about Watts. From your calculations it appears that you used 53W from a chart on the Quicktronic spec sheet showing input watts with a F028/SS type bulb in a chart labled "Lamp Striation Control". But when I look up the bulb listed in your chart along with the above ballast it says it is a 28W bulb. And the ballast spec sheet itself on the first page under a 2 lamp system with 2-F032T8/XPS lamps lists 63W.

I'll admit I don't know what I'm doing but depending on what wattage figure I use the results are different so I'm not sure how to correctly compare the ballasts & lamps. I'm trying to decide whether I should use the same ballast & lamps as I did previously, use the ballast you listed with the same lamps I did previously so the lighting is the same (although different BF factor may be different anyway) or if I could use the ballast you listed and maybe some 5000K bulbs similar to the 4100K you listed?