jayfrank5074
Well-known member
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- Dec 1, 2013
- Messages
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Anybody have any recommendations?
The Best Light Fixture Ever!
- Thread starter Platonic Solid
- Start date
Cobradriver
Well-known member
Jay,
I'm sorta in the same boat. My garage currently has 32,4ft,T8,6500K bulbs. They are rated at 2850 lumens each. You can perform surgery in there currently. The issue I have is the lamps have always killed my radio/tv/electronics when they are on. I noticed last night a couple of bulbs are getting black on the ends. Time to upgrade or replace.
I really want to do away with noisy ballasts.
I'm thinking of getting these......
https://www.eledlights.com/t8-4ft-led-tube-uhl.html#.V7hva5grJhE
While 16.50 isn't exactly cheap,if they perform as well as the t8's i'd be friggin thrilled.
When I bought this place 5 years ago,led's were still stupid expensive. Heck,i think i had 50 plus dollars in each t8 at that time!
Chris
milner351
Well-known member
I'm trying to think outside the box here.
It seems that the LED lighting industry is evolving each day, the drops in prices and increase in options is dizzying.
I like the idea of using 4ft LED tubes in older fixtures you can salvage and re-wire with no need for a ballast (bypass LED tubes are wired direct to line voltage - down to $7 each as of 8/20/16)
Has anyone tried something like this in a shop?
They are sold as "recessed" lights - but are only about 1" thick and vary in diameter by wattage, the biggest ones are 24W and roughly 11" in diameter. Why not hang these from chains and wire them to simple / cheap 2 wire lamp cord and 2 prong lamp plug, then plug into ceiling mounted switched outlets?
What am I missing?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IOZZ53O/?tag=atomicindus08-20
It seems that the LED lighting industry is evolving each day, the drops in prices and increase in options is dizzying.
I like the idea of using 4ft LED tubes in older fixtures you can salvage and re-wire with no need for a ballast (bypass LED tubes are wired direct to line voltage - down to $7 each as of 8/20/16)
Has anyone tried something like this in a shop?
They are sold as "recessed" lights - but are only about 1" thick and vary in diameter by wattage, the biggest ones are 24W and roughly 11" in diameter. Why not hang these from chains and wire them to simple / cheap 2 wire lamp cord and 2 prong lamp plug, then plug into ceiling mounted switched outlets?
What am I missing?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IOZZ53O/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Milner, it's your garage, so of course you can do as you please. For this particular product, there is one or two HUGE red flags.
In lighting, there is only a few pieces of information that are really important to the user. There are a lot of details that you may or may not care about. Now, if someone was trying to sell you a used car and they kept referring to the material the seat was made of while you were more interested in the mileage and size of the motor, you might get a little suspicious, right?
This manufacturer chooses to give you lots of useless details about the product, but never tells you the important information. "Baffle 'em with ********" is what it's called.
You might want to know who makes it. Ad doesn't say who the manufacturer is.
You might want to know about the warranty. Ad says to contact manufacturer.
You probably want to know how bright it is, so that you can figure out how many you might need. The ad doesn't say. This is the single most important piece of information and they dont provide it.
Good luck
CD
milner351
Well-known member
This is why I asked - I am NOT a lighting expert!
I'm just a guy that is having a hard time figuring out the seemingly endless options now available.
THANK YOU for taking the time to help the rest of us sort this out!
I'm just a guy that is having a hard time figuring out the seemingly endless options now available.
THANK YOU for taking the time to help the rest of us sort this out!
ragtop00
Member
Thank you PayPal!! I was refunded my entire contested $2000+ from Contractor's Commercial because of non-delivery of merchandise. Before Contractor's Commercial went completely sideways they recommended switching to this bulb. http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/LEDXPERT-T8-Tube-4-Foot-22-Watt-p/ebt8m4-22w.htm I found it available from several sites but these guys had it in stock and ready to "ship the next day from California". Well... 2 weeks and several phone calls later my bulbs finally arrived. Still haven't installed them but at 22w and 2700+ lumens they should be plenty bright.
milner351
Well-known member
Great news on the paypal refund!
Just for awareness - to the untrained eye - these look like a good deal - minimum order is 25 bulbs at $9.50 each. These have full 360 degree light angle, 1800 lumens, 4000k so not full daylight spectrum.
http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/jt84g13n18-40gl.htm
and these appear to be a better deal on a cost per lumens basis but they do have the 120 degree beam angle, unfortunately they add $30 for shipping and handling to my address, so I'll likely go with the Bees option and the 360 degree beam angle.
http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc....-T8-Replacement-Tube-p/zy-t8-18w1200-bixx.htm
Just for awareness - to the untrained eye - these look like a good deal - minimum order is 25 bulbs at $9.50 each. These have full 360 degree light angle, 1800 lumens, 4000k so not full daylight spectrum.
http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/jt84g13n18-40gl.htm
and these appear to be a better deal on a cost per lumens basis but they do have the 120 degree beam angle, unfortunately they add $30 for shipping and handling to my address, so I'll likely go with the Bees option and the 360 degree beam angle.
http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc....-T8-Replacement-Tube-p/zy-t8-18w1200-bixx.htm
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OP
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
Sorry guys. I've been away from here for a while. I see that contractorscommercial.com isn't very reliable so I removed the recommendation from page 1 and replaced it with ledlightingwholesaleinc.com.
OP
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
ragtop00 - The lamp you linked to appears to require a fluorescent instant-start ballast, thus not suitable for direct 120VAC connection. Hopefully that's what you're looking for.
Cobradriver - If RFI and EMI are a concern, I recommend testing a couple LED bulbs before committing to a large quantity. Some LED bulbs are worse than fluorescent with respect to RFI.
jayfrank5074 - If you have the ceiling height to accommodate F54T5HO and you want LED, then I'd suggest looking at the Lithonia ZL1N (linked) or similar. (As always, make sure it has a frosted diffuser/lens).
For those of you concerned with beam angle, I would only consider that noticeable at low 8ft or less ceiling heights.
Cobradriver - If RFI and EMI are a concern, I recommend testing a couple LED bulbs before committing to a large quantity. Some LED bulbs are worse than fluorescent with respect to RFI.
jayfrank5074 - If you have the ceiling height to accommodate F54T5HO and you want LED, then I'd suggest looking at the Lithonia ZL1N (linked) or similar. (As always, make sure it has a frosted diffuser/lens).
For those of you concerned with beam angle, I would only consider that noticeable at low 8ft or less ceiling heights.
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Hey Milner,
Since you are using these in older fixtures, you should know this...
the top 180 degrees, or 900 lumens, of your tube will shine up into the fixture. Of this, only about 70% will be reflected out (ymmv depending on the exact fixture type). That's 630 lumens out of the top of the tube plus 900 lumens out of the bottom of the tube for a total of about 1530 delivered lumens.
The 120 degree tube will deliver ALL of it's lumens. 120 is a little tighter beam than normal, but it's not so tight that it would be bad. Higher ceilings would be better, but for reference, a typical recessed lighting fixture has a beam angle in the range of 160 degrees. So, 120 isn't far off.
Good luck
CD
jayfrank5074
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- Dec 1, 2013
- Messages
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I will look into that link, thank you
I have 9.5' ceilings, so not terribly high.
I don't necessarily want t5hos, they just put out a lot of lifht. It seems to me they are cheaper for the amount of light they put out. I know they use more watts, and I guess in 5-6 the leds would pay for their selves
I have just about decided to just buy more leds, still contemplating more t5ho though......
OP
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
jayfrank5074 - Glare becomes an issue when using bare bulb (no diffuser/lens) F54T5HO at 9.5'. Max recommendation at that height is ~6000 lumens per 4ft fixture. Then increase number of fixtures until you reach desired workplane illumination.
revamped
Well-known member
Welcome Back Platonic!
After searching far and wide... I am having a hard time finding good layouts for 16ft ceilings and deciding whether to go LED high bay or T5HO or trying to buy the parts separately for regular LED. Any pointers? My post earlier lays it all out...
After searching far and wide... I am having a hard time finding good layouts for 16ft ceilings and deciding whether to go LED high bay or T5HO or trying to buy the parts separately for regular LED. Any pointers? My post earlier lays it all out...
jayfrank5074
Well-known member
- Joined
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So you are saying I should go led then? (Keeping it under 6000) The glare doesn't really bother me. I have been looking at the ledwholesale bulbs from earlier, the 2500l I think for about $9. I have 3 more fixtures I planned to put up, if t5ho, probably 2.
Also, I like 4000k light, most of my better flashlights are the neutral 4000-4500k, but maybe in the shop 5000k is the way to go.
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ragtop00
Member
Well ****. I will call in to confirm when they open but I purchased a bunch of the Maxlite utility fixtures at the same time over the phone so I would expect that if they knew it to not be compatible they should have brought that to my attention. I hope Contractors Commercial didn't bite my A$$ with a bad recommendation from beyond the grave.
Edit:
It looks like I may not have paid enough attention to the part numbers. CC recommended the LEDEXPERT T8M4-22W and it looks like I ordered the EBT8M4-22W. I cringe to think that the "EB" probably stands for external ballast. $$$$$$$hiT! I have 90 bulbs. I hope LEDlightingwholesale has a return policy.
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milner351
Well-known member
Folks the shared experience here is simply priceless. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and experience with the rest of us that are not versed in lighting. 
I took a picture of some current fixtures - but the cell phone camera doesn't do justice to reality in this case. On the far left is one fixture that still has the old T12 bulbs and original (late 80's) ballast, in the center is an identical fixture with the ballast bypassed and the $7 LED bulbs, on the right is another identical fixture with electronic instant start ballast (I'm sorry I don't have the specs in front of me) and T8 "daylight" green end tubes. These are mounted to a ceiling at 10ft 6in off the floor, ceiling and walls are just off white semi gloss, fixtures have typical plastic covers that help to diffuse the light.
At countertop height - there is almost no difference in light between the cheap LED and the T8s, the T12s are noticeably more yellow and throw less light.
Only when looking up at the fixtures can you tell the LED are more "directional" than the T8 or T12, down where the light matters, there's no difference. That's the second picture - looking directly up at the LEDs you can see the dark spot between bulbs, but it makes no real difference in the light at working height.
I took a picture of some current fixtures - but the cell phone camera doesn't do justice to reality in this case. On the far left is one fixture that still has the old T12 bulbs and original (late 80's) ballast, in the center is an identical fixture with the ballast bypassed and the $7 LED bulbs, on the right is another identical fixture with electronic instant start ballast (I'm sorry I don't have the specs in front of me) and T8 "daylight" green end tubes. These are mounted to a ceiling at 10ft 6in off the floor, ceiling and walls are just off white semi gloss, fixtures have typical plastic covers that help to diffuse the light.
At countertop height - there is almost no difference in light between the cheap LED and the T8s, the T12s are noticeably more yellow and throw less light.
Only when looking up at the fixtures can you tell the LED are more "directional" than the T8 or T12, down where the light matters, there's no difference. That's the second picture - looking directly up at the LEDs you can see the dark spot between bulbs, but it makes no real difference in the light at working height.
Attachments
ragtop00
Member
Disappointment averted. I must have accidentally linked to the incorrect bulb above. I cannot find the bulb that I purchased on the LED Lighting Wholesale website anymore. I ordered, was shipped, and just tested the T8M4-22W bulb in the 4000k frosted lens with internal ballast configuration @ $9.38 per bulb. My order was over $1000 so shipping was free. I don't have any comparison shots but the bulbs are bright.
Thanks to everyone on this post for convincing me NOT to buy the $26 fixtures from Sam's Club. I am sure that I would have always wondered "but could it have been better" and I hate that feeling.
Thanks to everyone on this post for convincing me NOT to buy the $26 fixtures from Sam's Club. I am sure that I would have always wondered "but could it have been better" and I hate that feeling.
jonwrong
Member
I need to start a thread for the house I am finally building. Poured footers this week. Anyway, I am trying to figure out some of the finishes. One thing I need is shop lights. Another big one is the right recessed lights, but I am posting in this thread for the former right now.
Below are two pics. One is the layout of the garage, and other is the permitted electrical plan, which is totally adjustable. The hobby room is really my HVACed two post lift bay measuring 23 x 31. The ceiling is vaulted from front to back and opens up to 16 feet in one place (all over 12 feet above the lift). I had to hide the garages in an otherwise normal looking home.
In the garage storage (22 x 31), the ceilings are vaulted as well and provide more than 12 feet of clearance in the center over a four post lift. Lastly, the 2-car garage is just for parking and has 10 foot ceilings. Lighting is not as big a concern there as I simply plan to park my daily drivers.
I am trying to figure out how many lights to buy, what type of lights to buy, etc. I want to spend the right money now but would like to keep things very cost effective (if both of those are possible). I would appreciate the time and help from one or all of you seasoned pros. Thanks!
Below are two pics. One is the layout of the garage, and other is the permitted electrical plan, which is totally adjustable. The hobby room is really my HVACed two post lift bay measuring 23 x 31. The ceiling is vaulted from front to back and opens up to 16 feet in one place (all over 12 feet above the lift). I had to hide the garages in an otherwise normal looking home.
In the garage storage (22 x 31), the ceilings are vaulted as well and provide more than 12 feet of clearance in the center over a four post lift. Lastly, the 2-car garage is just for parking and has 10 foot ceilings. Lighting is not as big a concern there as I simply plan to park my daily drivers.
I am trying to figure out how many lights to buy, what type of lights to buy, etc. I want to spend the right money now but would like to keep things very cost effective (if both of those are possible). I would appreciate the time and help from one or all of you seasoned pros. Thanks!
Benj269
Member
Friday morning I was ready to bite the bullet and buy the 38 fixtures and 76 tubes that I need for my new shop.
I had done some searching online and messed around with some ~$10 fixtures from local big box stores and some of their led tubes. All of those had issues of one form or another. Either there was work to be done eliminating the ballast (and I'd end up with 38 ballasts that I didn't need), shunted tombstones, sharp edges, difficult to mount, etc.
Trusting garagejournal as a source and not being able to find anything else worthwhile, I bought my fixtures and tubes from LED Lighting Wholesale. I was ready to buy the fixtures and bulbs listed here, but on the sales page for the fixture you can add bulbs for $18, bringing the total to $33.
Only after my purchase did I realize that we are actually in the same city. About an hour after my order I received a phone message from them saying "instead of shipping, how about I just bring them over?", so the guy loaded them up in the back of his personal vehicle and brought them over at the agreed upon 4PM. Can't argue with same day service!
So far, all I have done is unbox the fixtures and a couple of tubes. The next biggest relief was that (unlike the box store fixtures) they were very easy to unbox. The unit slides right out and you don't need to fight it or destroy the box to get them out, which can be frustrating and messy. The fixture is already "apart" and ready to be installed, unlike the box store fixtures. They are thicker gauge metal as well, so they are nice and sturdy and no sharp corners or edges. They also have electrical knockouts in the sides and ends of the fixture, so I don't have to use a knockout punch on them for connecting conduit.
I will post again once I am done and can comment on the bulbs and performance. I just wanted to mention my experience thus far and also the lower $33 per fixture price. I will note that I spent over $1000 and so shipping would have been free, so your mileage may vary with the $33 price if you have to add shipping.
Benj
jonwrong
Member
Benj,
So, did you buy the lights in your quote above? I look forward to hearing your review.
So, did you buy the lights in your quote above? I look forward to hearing your review.
knucklehead
Well-known member
what kelvin color bulbs should be used in my shop? 4000k or 5000k?
1st floor is 21' x 48' with 9' ceiling.
2nd floor is 21' x 48' with 8' ceiling.
motorhome parking is 15' x 48' with 18' ceiling.
fabrication area is 25' x 22' with 14' ceiling.
1st floor is 21' x 48' with 9' ceiling.
2nd floor is 21' x 48' with 8' ceiling.
motorhome parking is 15' x 48' with 18' ceiling.
fabrication area is 25' x 22' with 14' ceiling.
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milner351
Well-known member
I ended up getting 13 4x2 4 tube fixtures for $100.
I'll keep you posted once I get them installed - the building isn't built yet - so it will be a while before I'm installing fixtures.
I'll keep you posted once I get them installed - the building isn't built yet - so it will be a while before I'm installing fixtures.
NuthinFancy
Active member
Thank you for sharing your experience and insight on this complex and often confusing topic.
You mention RFI with LED bulbs; is this typical with LED bulbs in general (as in fixtures designed for LED bulbs) vs retrofitting LEDs bulbs to fluorescent fixtures?
Thanks again.
Benj269
Member
Yes, with the add-on 5000k tubes. It will be cool in the mornings on Friday and Saturday and I hope to get all of my climbing around in the rafters done during that time and should have more to report.
Benj269
Member
It could look cool, but I think the pieces and parts will start adding up. Cord, cord ends, receptacles, boxes, chain, etc...
milner351
Well-known member
Yea - I've given up on that idea, I picked up a pallet load of 4x2 drop ceiling fixtures, a Bakers dozen for $100. I'll pull the ballasts and use ballast bypass LED tubes.
I still have to decide if I want to screw the 4x2 fixtures directly to the bottom of the scissor trusses, or hang them from chains.
revamped
Well-known member
Benj269
Member
I don't have any sketches handy, but 36 total fixtures in a grid of 9 X 4. I basically have 9 rafters that are 24 feet long. Each rafter will get 4 fixtures with roughly a foot between each one and closer to two feet between the end of the last fixtures and the walls. Rafters are spaced 4' on center. Height from floor to bottom of rafter at one end is 10.5 feet, sloping up to 14.5 feet at the other, so my fixtures won't be level, but on the same 2/12 pitch as the roof. 960 total sq ft.
revamped
Well-known member
Awesome! are you concerned about getting enough Lum at the 14.5 ft.?
Benj269
Member
No because that wall has the blast cabinet, air compressor, a walkway, and two 10' X 10' sliders, so I'm not too worried.
nsula_country
Well-known member
I have been well pleased with 5000K.
6500K seems bluish. Anything less than 4100K is yellowish... Still, it is what suits you.
CT
revamped
Well-known member
I am going 5000K with the highest CRI I can find for painting/color sanding, etc.
handymancanfixit
Well-known member
How do these hold up against the James 18W tubes back in post #1?
http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EBT8M4-22W&CartID=2
http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EBT8M4-22W&CartID=2
Clevername
Well-known member
cory58
Well-known member
FYI - Those tubes require a ballast.
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smalltown
Well-known member
Mitch glad to read that you got things cleared up with Commercial Contracting.
Been looking back on the posts not sure what fixture, and bulbs you ended up with.
By the way is it still the building on the right that has the led lamps ?
I hope so as I like that lighting !
Been looking back on the posts not sure what fixture, and bulbs you ended up with.
By the way is it still the building on the right that has the led lamps ?
I hope so as I like that lighting !
It's a great lamp and that price is a steal. These are replacement LED lamps for fluorescent T8 lamps. Just take out the fluorescent and drop in the LED. They work with the existing T8 electronic ballast in place, so in total, they actually use 19 watts each.
CD
Benj269
Member
I just came in after finishing my installation. It makes a dramatic difference in how the space feels.
Fixtures - they are great with a few minor annoyances. It's a "tool less" design, which is nice, but the clips that hold the cover on the frame are like a frustrating puzzle in your pocket or pouch as you reach for one, seven come out, and won't let go of one another. It's also sometimes a tight fit to get the cover between the tombstones, so you're trying to hold the cover, push out on the tombstones, and push the wires inside all at the same time. The reason the wires are a hassle is because there's no ballast that would normally be holding most everything in place. Without that, they don't have anything to hold on to. All of these things are minor, but they can get frustrating on top of a 20 foot ladder.
LED tubes - ummm, they all worked. I think the color (5000K) is just fine. Some of the plastic protective end caps were a challenge to remove, otherwise I'm happy.
Lux - lights off at 5pm, I measured 10-100 lux. All lights on I measured around 850 in the corners, 11-1200 at maybe 4 feet from any wall, and about 1450 in the middle. All measurements were at 36" bench height.
I don't know what my next project will be, but it won't involve either ladders or electrical. My legs, back, and finger tips are shot.
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jayfrank5074
Well-known member
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LOL, I know what you mean. After wiring up 14 light fixtures, 5 switches, 90 ft of conduit,3 plug ins and adding a breaker to my breaker box, I'm done with ladders, wire nuts, and conduit for awhile
note this was not all in the same room, but most was. I have a mix of lights up now, 4,5, or 6 t5ho's depending on how much lighting is needed. I also have 8 2 bulb leds up. Some James diva 18w (mix of 230 and 120 angle) and some jasoren 24w leds.
If I could do it all over, I wouldn't buy the 230 degree James bulbs, they are alot more fragile than the 120 bulbs. They do not have an aluminum back, very easy to break. I would use all James diva 120 degree in 5000k, in conjunction with the t5ho fixtures I already had and call it a day.