The Best Light Fixture Ever!

[Cuda416]

Cuda416 - 12 fixtures 4-LED lamps @ 2500 Lumens per lamp in a 36x36 space =
60 Lumens @ 30" workplane mounted at 14'
65 Lumens @ 30" workplane mounted at 12'
69 Lumens @ 30" workplane mounted at 10' (less even light distribution due to low fixture qty.)

Industry standard for mechanical work = 93 fc @ 30" workplane

That's great @Platonic Solid, thanks for taking the time to look at this!

If I am reading things right, probably not, I'm about 30 Lumens shy at 30". What would it take to get to 93 fc? More importantly, is it realistic for a home shop?

EDIT: Looks like fc==Lumens/sqft? <-- wrong, 1fc == 10.76 Lumens

The more I read the more I get lost lol...

-C

 

[Platonic Solid]

Cuda416 - Forget Lumens/sq.ft., it's meaningless. I accidentally put lumens instead of footcandles in my prior post. I fixed it.

Cuda416 - 12 fixtures 4-LED lamps @ 2500 Lumens per lamp in a 36x36 space =
60 fc @ 30" workplane mounted at 14'
65 fc @ 30" workplane mounted at 12'
69 fc @ 30" workplane mounted at 10' (less even light distribution due to low fixture qty.)

Industry standard for mechanical work = 93 fc @ 30" workplane

 

[Cuda416]

Cuda416 - Forget Lumens/sq.ft., it's meaningless. I accidentally put lumens instead of footcandles in my prior post. I fixed it.

Understood, thanks again! Almost 100 pages of mostly you helping people with this issue speaks volumes. You're help is greatly appreciated.



-=C

 

[boostedranger]

Platonic Solid, can anyone confirm that DM-HB2-110W-50K at www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/DM-HB2-110W-50K-p/dm-hb2-110w-50k.htm is the same as the James ZY-H2-110W? Specs all look the same.

After looking at www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7104551&postcount=17 If I add one more row of these lights to make the arrangement 4x5, since I am 40x60x16, I think lighting would be more than sufficient.

Any input is greatly appreciated


Thank you
Jon

 

[Platonic Solid]

boostedranger - I don't know if it is the same. Your layout assumption sounds correct.

 

[boostedranger]

Ok, reached out to some manufacturers and supply houses, the DM-HB2-110W-50K from ledlightingwholsale is not a rebranded James Industry light, but claims it is similar.

DM-HB2-110W-50K $135 for 2 pack, 10x $135 = $1350 with free shipping

James industry ZY-H2-110W about $118 each shipped, 20 x $128 = $2360 shipped

Thoughts? anyone have experience with ledlightingwholesale?

Leaning towards the James just because they seem to be used often here

Thanks
Jon

 

[Platonic Solid]

I see the James industry ZY-H2-110W 16406 Lumen fixture here (link) for $113.

Or here (link) for $65, but they don't mention CCT and I'm generally skeptical of companies that don't show a physical address on their "contact us" page.

Also, remember to contact your power supplier for potential energy efficient rebates/incentives.

 

[mmavet]

mmavet - Please post your opinion of the housing construction when you get it. I haven't reviewed that one yet.

PS
I have 16 mounted to ceiling (9' 4") and think the housing is built good and the lamp holders don't have much movement so that seems ok also. You do have to assemble the housings. No hangers, no cords, and the ground wire on all units is cheap in that it breaks when I wire nut them to the 14/2 wires i'm using to wire the fixtures with. One snag is the lamp holders are wired so the line wire/black and the L on the led light are backwards. When assembled the bulb WARNINGS sticker is pointed down so that is what you are seeing and there is some grey led strip the length of the tube on the inside of bulb that is blocking some led light output from the downward projection. I had to rewire the holders to get it the way I thought was correct. Takes extra time but I'm happy with the way they are now. Was not successful getting ahold of Bees lighting for a tech to give me their solution. One side of the garage is nice and bright and in a couple weeks I'll order the other lights (19) for the other side of shop and call it a wrap, then go up in the loft and finish that off with led lighting and shelving.

 

[Platonic Solid]

mmavet - 10/2 holy $#!t that's some heavy wire for low wattage lighting. 14 is typical.

 

[mmavet]

mmavet - 10/2 holy $#!t that's some heavy wire for low wattage lighting. 14 is typical.

PS
I mis-spoke...... 14-2 run in series is what it is.. no flickering or 10 minute warm ups on those cold winter mornings that was in the old fluoresent lights. Thanks for catching my error.

 

[Cuda416]

Just trying a few things before I buy a box of bulbs or two...

My existing fixtures, have shunted tombstones on both ends, tested by observing continuity between the contacts with the wires disconnected and observing a single wire entering the units. I believe then to make no other changes than removing the ballasts, I need double ended, ballast bypass bulbs, correct?

Next, I had planned on putting chords on the fixtures and plugging them into outlets mounted on the rafters. Some have expressed a very strong opinion on the matter, against. Why? My only reason for attaching chords was ease of removal should I need to. I'm not dead set on it, so I'd like to hear why it's a bad idea. Won't take much to sway me.

Seems the double ended bulbs are a little mode expensive so in the interest of being a cheap-a$$, is it better to buy the cheaper bulb and replace the socket on one end? If I do that, is the other end just used to hold the other end of the bulb?

Finally, who has the best deals on bulbs currently and are there any discounts out there for members?


Thanks!

 

[SLAYER6669]

I guess I could do 8 of these and simplify the wiring. Cost and bulb count is more or less equivalent

TechBrite 48" 3 Lamp LED T8 Strip Fixture - 5000K - 7,815 Lumens
https://www.prolighting.com/t443ssubcxx00p0-18w5k.html

I just ordered 6 of these myself last Tuesday with the 7% GJ code, and Prolighting had them at my door just two days later on Thursday. I installed them on Saturday and they provide a good amount of light for my 3 car garage. I probably should have gone with 8 myself but was trying to just use the 6 wires I had run already. I will probably add at least one more due to my middle row being slightly off center so the one side just needs a bit more light. Two of my 18 bulbs were defective and Prolighting sent out two new bulbs no questions asked at my door in 2 days again. I am happy with the purchase, been wanting to do this for a while now. The best part is I no longer have to listen to the ballast buzz from my old florescent fixtures!

 

[Platonic Solid]

Cuda416 - The Greentek bulbs in post 1 are universal: ballast compatible, ballast bypass, single end or double end. Really hard to go wrong with that one. If you're considering other bulbs, be sure to check all the specs. You usually get what you pay for.

I don't have a strong opinion regarding direct wire or plugs, though wiring outlets just for fixtures seems like more work when you can just jump from 1 fixture to the next without the need for junction boxes. The fixture is it's own junction box. Cord connected also tends to give a less finished look, if that matters to you.

 

[calinflo]

PlatonicSolid - Is there a comparable selection in the tool for these?
CREE CS14-40LHE-40K-10V 48" 37 Watts 37W 1' x 4' LED High Efficiency Linear Luminaire Dimmable 4000K
PART# CS14-40LHE-40K-10V
Thanks in advance

 

[Platonic Solid]

calinflo - You don't need a comparable. You can use the exact IES file provided by CREE here (link) (FYI Note: CREE Lighting is being purchased by Ideal Industries.)

Save desired IES file to your PC - Open Visual Photometric Tool - Select the "Open" folder (upper left corner) - click "+" next to "my computer" (lower left corner) - browse to saved file location ...

 

[Cuda416]

@Platonic Solid, thanks for the input and advice as always.

 

[calinflo]

Platonic Solid - Thanks for the info and thanks for all you do here!

The World (any many garage/shops) would be a much darker place without you!

 

[calinflo]

BTW - just tried it and it worked perfectly

 

[CarFire]

So I've been laying out my 64x36 shop electrical trying to figure out the best approach. In my last shop I put up 3 bulb x 4' fluorescent lights and hung them from the 14'6" ceiling on chains. That was good to increase light, but bad because it was a pain to do and the cords look messy.

This time I am thinking 4' LEDs on my new shop with 13'6" ceiling. I am also thinking to put them on the ceiling vs chains. I am doing the wiring myself. My calcs are telling me I can put like 20 of those things on a switch and maybe 40 per circuit.

I am partial to lights with reflectors because I am going to put in some big ceiling fans and I want to minimize strobing.

Any recommendations for fixtures? Any other thoughts? I think in reality I will run 12/2 to the switch and either 14/2 to the lights or just 12/2 everywhere.

 

[Platonic Solid]

CarFire - Ceiling Fans are a PIA with respect to lighting. If I ignore the ceiling fans, then I would recommend 24 Lithonia JEBL 12L 50K 80CRI WH (link). You can get reflectors for these fixtures here (link). These fixtures are very easy to mount. Two 12 fixture circuits using 14/2.

Pro: Reflectors will reduce glare on walls.
Con: Reflectors will make the ceiling darker and light distribution @ 30" workplane less even.

 

[CarFire]

Thanks for your help, PS! I am probably too cheap to spend $3600 those. Hmmmmm..... Maybe ditch the ceiling fan for a corner mounted oscillating which would be noisy..... I do know that I had very little air movement in last shop except AC (Phoenix). Ended up running really cold(expensive) or being miserable......

 

[CarFire]

Would I be better off using a "high bay" type light and fewer of them than 48" twin-tube LED, I wonder? My ceiling height should be about 13' 2" when finished. Lift is 11' 11" We have ceiling mounted vents from AC ducts in between the Attic trusses above.

I have a drawing and a floorplan. The floorplan is a bit old, but pretty close. The truck pictured is my 21' 6" dually longbed. The other bays can park most cars 2 deep. My main work bays are 3 and 4 (second 2 to the right). I can probably be fine with a bit less light in the first 2.

 

[Platonic Solid]

CarFire - Alternative fixtures selected solely on price:
https://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/HB-90W320605-L-D-2-p/hb-90w320605-l-d-2.htm
https://greenlightdepot.com/collect...-mounting-gen-5-ul-dlc?variant=16980141277227 (You'd need a dimmer for this one - assuming it's dimmable since it doesn't say)

 

[CarFire]

PS, Thanks for the links! Do you have an feel for where "High Bay" begins? If my ceiling is ~13' it might be too low for something so bright? It might be perfect. I know a guy who works in a place with one of those Big *** Garage lights and he said it is painfully dazzling.

In my last shop, I ended up with enough fluorescent lights to hit operating room light levels around my lift. As we get older seems like there is never enough light!

 

[Platonic Solid]

CarFire - Ignore the term "High Bay". What matters is lumen output, beam spread and spacing criteria. Avoid the overpriced Big *** lights, they offer half the lumen output at twice the price. Might be able to get away with 15 (3x5 pattern) of the Greentek I linked to above - I'll check this evening. That said, there's little point to spending all this time and money on a giant shop only to cheese out on lighting. That makes no sense.

 

[OneOfEm]

That said, there's little point to spending all this time and money on a giant shop only to cheese out on lighting. That makes no sense.

PS, can I give you my wife's number?

 

[CarFire]

CarFire - Ignore the term "High Bay". What matters is lumen output, beam spread and spacing criteria. Avoid the overpriced Big *** lights, they offer half the lumen output at twice the price. Might be able to get away with 15 (3x5 pattern) of the Greentek I linked to above - I'll check this evening. That said, there's little point to spending all this time and money on a giant shop only to cheese out on lighting. That makes no sense.

My wife is hugely supportive of the shop build. She is the "we need more horsepower" person. When I am the voice of reason in the relationship, things are pretty off the rails.

Definitely won't cheese on lighting, in fact I KNOW it is so important is why I am spending so much time on it. I was told and generally agree not to put light directly over the car bays, but rather on each side so as to limit shadows, did that in the last one and it worked well. Trying to find the best light, lowest heat gain, most diffuse, least dazzling, least complex version. I know how important it is!!! Thanks again!

 

[bwrightsman]

Platonic Solid, I am a long time lurker, new poster. Just finished installing the electrical panel for my new 40x50 x14' stick built shop this weekend and moving on to electrical and lighting. White metal ceilings, sealed concrete floor, and white drywall walls. This will be a high end detail bay/wash bay/specific task set of work spaces all open floor. Was looking at the Atlas ILH418LL fixtures in 5000K. Thoughts or other suggestions on these? Ideally was hoping to go >80cri for paint correction and inspections during/after polishing etc. Also wanted to target min ~65fc. With the Atlas it looks like I would need a 3x3 matrix. Open for suggestions.


atlaslightingproducts.com/ilh418ll

 

[calinflo]

Dimmer Recommendation for garage shop

I found some CREE CS Linear Luminaire lights for my garage.
I got a combination of (3) CS14-40LHE-40K-10V (4ft) & (3) CS18-44L-40K-10V (8ft) for a great deal

My thought is to attached them into 12 footers (8 + 4) and installed in 3 rows for ascetics but similar to the layout our tool provided me.

As these are dimmable via separate 0-10V (purple and gray wires) I would like to control them via a single dimming control ON/OFF (120V) and DIM (0-10V)

Can I get a recommendation of the proper dimmer?

Thanks in advance for all the help

 

[Platonic Solid]

bwrightsman - I see nothing wrong with the Atlas ILH418LL fixture. 3x3 is not enough fixtures for a 40x50x14 space. Need at least 12: 4x3 to maintain even light distribution. Max fixture center to fixture center mounting distance = 14'

 

[Platonic Solid]

calinfo - The easy and cheap way is to use a dimming only dimmer like this one (link). Wire On/Off switches separately.
You can:
Only use 1 dimmer per fixture.
Wire all fixtures to one dimmer.

If you want an On/Off switch and 0-10VDC dimmer in one, then you have to add the wattage of all your fixtures and find a properly rated switch/dimmer.

Total fixture load = 243 watts.

Here's an example of a dimmer that will NOT work for you (link). Note it states: "Works with up to 150-Watt of dimmable LED/CFL bulbs or 600-Watt of incandescent/halogen bulbs".

Here's an example of a dimmer that will work (link).

 

[Platonic Solid]

CarFire - You can get away with a 15 fixture 3x5 layout 110W 16400 Lumen/fixture. Max fixture spacing is 13'. This is based on an empty room and not taking your actual plan into consideration. 87fc @ 30" workplane.

 

[CarFire]

CarFirer - the best lamps in our market!

Mika89? Which ones? Currently leaning toward 90W Greentek high bay, but worried might be too low at about 12' off the floor.

 

[Platonic Solid]

... Currently leaning toward 90W Greentek high bay, but worried might be too low at about 12' off the floor.

CarFire - The 90W is not a GreenTek fixture, it is a distributor labeled fixture of unknown origin. The 165W is GreenTek. I only selected that one as all the others are out of stock. Your originally posted ceiling height was 13'6". Hanging fixtures lower decreases fixture lumen output requirement and decreases fixture to fixture spacing criteria. In other words - as you lower fixture mounting height, fixture quantity to maintain even light distribution increases and lumen output required per fixture (and overall) decreases.

CarFire - Alternative fixtures selected solely on price:
https://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/HB-90W320605-L-D-2-p/hb-90w320605-l-d-2.htm
https://greenlightdepot.com/collect...-mounting-gen-5-ul-dlc?variant=16980141277227 (You'd need a dimmer for this one - assuming it's dimmable since it doesn't say)

Here's a good fixture: https://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com/LEDFHB90-4K-MVDIM-V2-p/ledfhb90-4k-mvdim-v2.htm

122,000 hr life and you can get surface mounting brackets for $5

Manufacturers site with IES file: https://www.ledalux.com/ledalux_products/ledfhb90/

 

[bwrightsman]

Platonic Solid, thank you for the reply. In digging a bit deeper I think I have settled on a light option but looking for confirmation. Keep in mind a 39'x49'x14' interior dimensions with three 12x12 "bays/openings" spaced evenly along the long side so will try to land the lights overhead on each "side" of the bay.

Using LEDHB105-5K-UNV-S Fixtures
5000K >80CRI 14,476 Lumens 105W (138L/W

ww.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/work-shop-lights/patriot-lighting-reg-14476-lumens-integrated-led-high-bay-light/ledhb105-5k-mvdim10v-sn/p-1551943912020.htm


Would you go 4 rows of 4 lights (16) or 4 rows of 5 lights (20)? If my photo tool calcs are right this would put me at 102 or 127FC at 2.5' which should be plenty and we will still utilize task lighting where necessary.

Lastly, would you definitely put these on dimmer circuits? Ideally looking for ability to match them when needed on dimming, varied (tasks of different types in areas), or of course all on/off

 

[Platonic Solid]

bwrightsman - Nice find on the LEDHB105-5K-UNV-S Fixture (link) $80 for 14,476 Lm, 105W, 174,000 hr. L70 life. I'm a little concerned when I google Patriot Lighting one of the first sites that comes up is https://patriot-lighting.pissedconsumer.com/review.html. This sparked me to search the DLC website to verify their rating and the fixture is not there.

Anyway:
4x4 pattern of 14476 Lm fixtures = 95fc @ 30" workplane
5x4 = 118fc

For 1 dimmer to operate all fixtures you'll need to go with the dimming only switch posted in post 1992. You can install as many On/Off zones as you like via standard switches.

 

[bwrightsman]

Platonic Solid- Thank you for the feedback. Thinking I will go 4x5 setup. The lights are actually built by best lighting out of Ohio and talked w them today. While other Patriot Stuff at Menards is marginal at best they source these lamps from a good place. May go with Lutron powpak setup for these with wireless Pico wall switches. hw.menardc.com/main/items/media/BESTL001/Prod_Tech_Spec/LEDHB-SSpecificationSheetv2.pdf

 

[tom86951]

Hi All, epic light thread! We recently completed construction on my dream garage. Gratuitous photos here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396306&highlight=garage

Unbeknownst to me, the contractor tried to save a few bucks by ignoring the lights called for in my contract (American Green LED shop lights) and instead put in Home Depot specials (Lithonia 48L 2LL). These Lithonia lights have a clip-in LED cartridge that stays in place with just a friction fit and little detents. Maybe you can guess where I'm going with this... One of the LED cartridges has already fallen from the ceiling onto my brand new (expensive!) car. After that happened, we checked the other lights and found that a majority of them were clipped in poorly and at risk of falling. They are just cheap and at right of coming apart, and the contractor took no care installing them. Once the first one fell, the contractor tried to bend them so the LED cartridges are more secure, and put packing tape on them to hold them together for now, but needless to say they are replace every last one on their dime.

So, the question is what should I get? It's a odd shaped garage, but approximately 40 by 30, and the ceiling is multi-level from maybe 10' to 16'... See picture in the link above. There are currently 33 sets of the Lithonia lights on the ceiling and they put out adequate light, but open to all suggestions...

 

[Platonic Solid]

tom86951 - Very difficult question you have there. I'd be reluctant to recommend anything without doing a proper 3D model of your space in Dialux Evo. Not something I have the time or enough info to tackle. I can say, after googling "American Green LED shop lights", that I would not recommend those fixtures. They give you the option of exposed bare LED strips or prism lens (ack!) - neither is acceptable. You want a frosted diffusing lens regardless of the fixture type or brand.

 

[kevost]

bwrightsman - Nice find on the LEDHB105-5K-UNV-S Fixture (link) $80 for 14,476 Lm, 105W, 174,000 hr. L70 life. I'm a little concerned when I google Patriot Lighting one of the first sites that comes up is https://patriot-lighting.pissedconsumer.com/review.html. This sparked me to search the DLC website to verify their rating and the fixture is not there.

Anyway:
4x4 pattern of 14476 Lm fixtures = 95fc @ 30" workplane
5x4 = 118fc

For 1 dimmer to operate all fixtures you'll need to go with the dimming only switch posted in post 1992. You can install as many On/Off zones as you like via standard switches.

I see that you're not overly confident in these lights, but I just clicked on the link and they are actually on sale for $67.99 for another 10 days. I was thinking about ordering a few for my shop to get started on some lights. This will be temporary until I can get the funds to fully light it. So I guess my question is, do you think they are worth purchasing?

Thank you,

Kevin