ODIS
Well-known member
Thanks again for all the time you spend keeping your thread up-dated. The progress you and your team are making is great.
Thanks again.
Ody.
Thanks again.
Ody.
The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
Everytime you post progress it shows just how awesome this place is going to be when finished. I have no clue for concrete verses stickbuild but will this be done before winter or at least the exterior of the house?
We've had a productive few days. As promised, I've got a few things more interesting than the foundations you've been seeing for a while.
You know something is happening when the big crane arrives. It was time to set the structural steel that frames the floor over the basement and the master bedroom cantilever.
We'll be setting it with our 70 ton Linkbelt.
We needed everything the crane had to set the first beam. We were over 100' feet away and were setting a beam that weighed about a ton. It might not sound too bad but when a hydraulic crane's boom gets flat, you lose capacity fast.
The smaller pieces were a bit easier
Here's a shot of the actual cantilever.
Gotta run. I'll get back on and continue the update. We're building the ductwork chases and prepping the basement floor.
You know something is happening when the big crane arrives. It was time to set the structural steel that frames the floor over the basement and the master bedroom cantilever.
We'll be setting it with our 70 ton Linkbelt.
We needed everything the crane had to set the first beam. We were over 100' feet away and were setting a beam that weighed about a ton. It might not sound too bad but when a hydraulic crane's boom gets flat, you lose capacity fast.
The smaller pieces were a bit easier
Here's a shot of the actual cantilever.
Gotta run. I'll get back on and continue the update. We're building the ductwork chases and prepping the basement floor.
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JimVonBaden
Well-known member
You are leaving us hanging! LOL
Jim
Jim
HOTFR8
Banned
You could go for a ride in a crane bucket and that would supply us with some great photos.
I'm back. We left off with steel erection but we're also getting ready to place the basement floor. As is our custom, we have over engineered the damn thing to death.
After we fine graded the sub base we glued a 6" strip of rigid insulation to the foundation walls. Where the exterior of the walls are exposed to frost we had already extended insulation down to the footing (that's where you see it sticking up higher).
We then laid our vapor barrier. We're using a 15 mil product called Stegowrap.. They provide a tape for sealing the seams and around penetrations.
We then installed 2" of rigid on the flat.
Where the pitch of the floor drains brought the piping into the insulation, we just cut around them. Hopefully I won't notice it in my heating bill.
Next came expansion material around the steel and concrete columns. It's a good idea to isolate the floor from structural elements and give things the ability to move independently.
The red tape is just duct tape we wrapped around the foam to keep it in place.
My geothermal installer sent a crew by to put down the tubing for the radiant heat. When he was done we started installing some rebar.
The 6" pipe to the left is the roof drain outlet. The wood blocking is temporary. We plan to use Z furring and 2" rigid on the basement walls covered by 1/2" plywood. It will neaten things up and provide a good surface to mount all the 'stuff' to the walls.
We're using #4's at 18" centers. I told you we over engineer everything. Actually, I like using #4 bar in slabs. You obviously don't need that much steel but the rigidity of the bars keeps them in position under the thrashing of a finishing crew. We usually use a product called continuous slab bolster to support steel in slabs on grade.
The bolster is 1 1/2" tall, which locates the 1/2" rebar running both ways in the center of the slab. Here's a shot of the slab ready for placement.
Meanwhile, we paced the base slabs for the ductwork crawl spaces;
and formed up the walls. I'm going to install plywood over the rigid to cover it up and provide a surface to attach ductwork, pipe, conduit, etc to.
We're going to lay metal form-deck over the top and extend the slab on grade over the chase to cap it off.
We also formed up a couple pilasters and an entry stoop we skipped because they messed up our form panel layout and disrupted the tie hole pattern we were trying to maintain on the architectural concrete on the outside face. We can't have that now can we.
The rain screen siding continues slowly on the upper garage. I keep losing my carpenters to paying jobs - we're using this project as filler work.
Here's the other side that's almost complete;
And finally, here's a wide angle shot of the whole thing to hopefully help you figure out how it's all come together
After this placement we can do a big clean up, move all the forming equipment off the job (temporarily) and backfill everything up to grade. Then the place will really start to shape up.
By the way, I ordered the in-ground lift a few days ago. It should be here in about a month. I'll need to get it in before I can do the garage slab. Then I might be able to show you something garage related.
After we fine graded the sub base we glued a 6" strip of rigid insulation to the foundation walls. Where the exterior of the walls are exposed to frost we had already extended insulation down to the footing (that's where you see it sticking up higher).
We then laid our vapor barrier. We're using a 15 mil product called Stegowrap.. They provide a tape for sealing the seams and around penetrations.
We then installed 2" of rigid on the flat.
Where the pitch of the floor drains brought the piping into the insulation, we just cut around them. Hopefully I won't notice it in my heating bill.
Next came expansion material around the steel and concrete columns. It's a good idea to isolate the floor from structural elements and give things the ability to move independently.
The red tape is just duct tape we wrapped around the foam to keep it in place.
My geothermal installer sent a crew by to put down the tubing for the radiant heat. When he was done we started installing some rebar.
The 6" pipe to the left is the roof drain outlet. The wood blocking is temporary. We plan to use Z furring and 2" rigid on the basement walls covered by 1/2" plywood. It will neaten things up and provide a good surface to mount all the 'stuff' to the walls.
We're using #4's at 18" centers. I told you we over engineer everything. Actually, I like using #4 bar in slabs. You obviously don't need that much steel but the rigidity of the bars keeps them in position under the thrashing of a finishing crew. We usually use a product called continuous slab bolster to support steel in slabs on grade.
The bolster is 1 1/2" tall, which locates the 1/2" rebar running both ways in the center of the slab. Here's a shot of the slab ready for placement.
Meanwhile, we paced the base slabs for the ductwork crawl spaces;
and formed up the walls. I'm going to install plywood over the rigid to cover it up and provide a surface to attach ductwork, pipe, conduit, etc to.
We're going to lay metal form-deck over the top and extend the slab on grade over the chase to cap it off.
We also formed up a couple pilasters and an entry stoop we skipped because they messed up our form panel layout and disrupted the tie hole pattern we were trying to maintain on the architectural concrete on the outside face. We can't have that now can we.
The rain screen siding continues slowly on the upper garage. I keep losing my carpenters to paying jobs - we're using this project as filler work.
Here's the other side that's almost complete;
And finally, here's a wide angle shot of the whole thing to hopefully help you figure out how it's all come together
After this placement we can do a big clean up, move all the forming equipment off the job (temporarily) and backfill everything up to grade. Then the place will really start to shape up.
By the way, I ordered the in-ground lift a few days ago. It should be here in about a month. I'll need to get it in before I can do the garage slab. Then I might be able to show you something garage related.
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GOLF for LIFE
Well-known member
Been following from the start of this monumental project. Really coming together thank you for using foamular insulation.
A nice view with a nice view.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Wow!!! I like these updates. And I thought pouring something like a sidewalk was a lot of work. 
I like the idea of a GoPro on top of the crane. You ought to look into one for our benefit
I like the idea of a GoPro on top of the crane. You ought to look into one for our benefit
Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
I think I speak for us all when I say we don't give a damn if its garage related or not, this project is sick!! Tho I am interested to see how the in ground is installed, one (ok, 2-3..) of those is for sure on my future shop list. It really looks like it is coming together tho, keep up the awesome work! Not that you need to be told to!
Thedoc14
Well-known member
So how far are you from SOUTH BURLINGTON, VT 05403 ??? I will be there in late August for some training.
So I have arranged for a few days to look around the good old US of A. plus a weekend in there also, will have a car and don't mind driving for hours and hours, Australia is a big place also..
Place is looking great, and coming together nicely now.
So I have arranged for a few days to look around the good old US of A. plus a weekend in there also, will have a car and don't mind driving for hours and hours, Australia is a big place also..
Place is looking great, and coming together nicely now.
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
* cough* rebar caps *cough*
I would have thought a newbie poster would find something else to choke on.
Maybe his own ability to not sweat the small stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj78_
* cough* rebar caps *cough*
I would have thought a newbie poster would find something else to choke on.
Maybe his own ability to not sweat the small stuff.
__________________
Newbie or not, tj78_ is correct.
You wouldnt be taking the piss if you tripped onto a rebar stub.
Originally Posted by tj78_
* cough* rebar caps *cough*
I would have thought a newbie poster would find something else to choke on.
Maybe his own ability to not sweat the small stuff.
__________________
Newbie or not, tj78_ is correct.
You wouldnt be taking the piss if you tripped onto a rebar stub.
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Another newbie .
What's with you guys?
This has been discussed at length before.
Read the thread.
It's up to the OP now, not you guys.
Got anything constructive to add to the thread?
I think if you look closely, the only area that might be low enough to fall on is the back-filled area in the foreground of the picture, everything else is pretty clearly chest level or above, those that are not have caps. So......wth?
PS - You and your guys make this look easy, well perhaps a bit complicated, with what are clearly decades of planning, but kind of easy, maybe? Not really, cool as heck to watch all the same. Thanks!!
PS - You and your guys make this look easy, well perhaps a bit complicated, with what are clearly decades of planning, but kind of easy, maybe? Not really, cool as heck to watch all the same. Thanks!!
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Man'o'man, this project is MAMMOTH! I really like the step-by-step progress reporting and watching the project go from model to 'mud'. I'm pretty sure that LLWillysfan is keeping certain design elements under wraps for now. The secret tunnels should remain secret for now, but I think we all know (and expect) they will be formed and poured in the dead of night and back filled before anyone is the wiser. lol I keep trying to visualize just where in the complex we can expect to find the 'command bunker' and the gun battery pillbox(es)? Gotta be somewhere with a good field of fire up and down the river, I suspect. Anybody have any guess as to where they'll be located?
Years ago, I had the opportunity to spend some time at the house (mansion) of a former CEO of a major Seattle corporation. One of the many interesting features of the estate was a secret passageway built into the basement level. You had to access the tunnel via a hidden door behind a wall rack in the wine cellar (of course). The passage led to the rear of the mansion where it seemingly dead-ended at a set of concrete stairs leading upwards to a massive concrete slab. There was a 'Rube Goldberg' construction attached to the wall made of metal rails, levers, counter-weights, and other strange devices. You had to start a silver dollar-sized steel ball bearing rolling down a rail track and it traveled on to the end while at the same time other things began happening. All this crazy puzzle did was trigger a hidden motor to act on a counter-balance which pivoted the entire slab upwards and let you ascend out to the patio overlooking the North Fork of the Snoqualmie river. It was just something wild and weird that the owners wanted to have built into their 'dream home'. I'm hoping that LLWillysfan has some 'surprises' built into his dream home/shop that he'll eventually reveal to all us loyal fans of 'The Concrete Underground'
Years ago, I had the opportunity to spend some time at the house (mansion) of a former CEO of a major Seattle corporation. One of the many interesting features of the estate was a secret passageway built into the basement level. You had to access the tunnel via a hidden door behind a wall rack in the wine cellar (of course). The passage led to the rear of the mansion where it seemingly dead-ended at a set of concrete stairs leading upwards to a massive concrete slab. There was a 'Rube Goldberg' construction attached to the wall made of metal rails, levers, counter-weights, and other strange devices. You had to start a silver dollar-sized steel ball bearing rolling down a rail track and it traveled on to the end while at the same time other things began happening. All this crazy puzzle did was trigger a hidden motor to act on a counter-balance which pivoted the entire slab upwards and let you ascend out to the patio overlooking the North Fork of the Snoqualmie river. It was just something wild and weird that the owners wanted to have built into their 'dream home'. I'm hoping that LLWillysfan has some 'surprises' built into his dream home/shop that he'll eventually reveal to all us loyal fans of 'The Concrete Underground'
Discussed but apparently not corrected.
Woah now...
First of all, maybe I haven't posted before but i've been around for quite a while... (and honestly I wanted that "make your first post" message to go away)
Secondly, I know it's been discussed before because I have read the entire thread- along with the comments by people asking questions that have already been covered...Hey, it happens...
Among those threads were gracious comments by LLWillysfan thanking the community for reminding him of safety practices. This is the reason I mentioned the caps along with the fact that he specifically stated his intention to cover the rebar high atop walls once the outsides were backfilled and they were more of a hazard. If he had said- I know what i'm doing and leave me alone- I probably would have never commented. I just figured he would appreciate a reminder.
So LLWillysfan- I apologize if you took offense to my comment.
I have to say I'm a bit set back by how fast everyone was to jump down my throat and discredit my comment or assume it was meant as an attack or criticism. Only having one post is not an indication of someones knowledge or ability just as having 10,000 may not be.
Besides- What happens if someone gets hurt after hundreds of us readers noticed something but didn't bother to comment? I don't want that on my conscious...
First of all, maybe I haven't posted before but i've been around for quite a while... (and honestly I wanted that "make your first post" message to go away)
Secondly, I know it's been discussed before because I have read the entire thread- along with the comments by people asking questions that have already been covered...Hey, it happens...
Among those threads were gracious comments by LLWillysfan thanking the community for reminding him of safety practices. This is the reason I mentioned the caps along with the fact that he specifically stated his intention to cover the rebar high atop walls once the outsides were backfilled and they were more of a hazard. If he had said- I know what i'm doing and leave me alone- I probably would have never commented. I just figured he would appreciate a reminder.
So LLWillysfan- I apologize if you took offense to my comment.
I have to say I'm a bit set back by how fast everyone was to jump down my throat and discredit my comment or assume it was meant as an attack or criticism. Only having one post is not an indication of someones knowledge or ability just as having 10,000 may not be.
Besides- What happens if someone gets hurt after hundreds of us readers noticed something but didn't bother to comment? I don't want that on my conscious...
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
Don't sweat it TJ. It isn't a big deal.
Jim
Jim
Please accept my apology if you considered my post as "jumping down your throat". I was only trying to point out the following; while the photo may not clearly show the relief, there are significant elevation changes in the areas where it does not have caps. The low areas all have caps on the rebar, just look.
Again, I'm impressed by the overall effort to share this with us and did not think it appropriate to knock the exceptional work and safety ethic I see demonstrated.
Again, I'm impressed by the overall effort to share this with us and did not think it appropriate to knock the exceptional work and safety ethic I see demonstrated.
Red Goat
Well-known member
What happens to the crew that worked that night? Big river, concrete boots...
All kidding aside, this is a really cool build! Thanks for sharing!!
It's late and I'm not going to post an update or responses till tomorrow morning but I did want to weigh in on the rebar cap issue. I don't take offense to any of the comments and appreciate the discussion. Let me just say that all rebar in the vicinity of workers has been properly capped at all times. There are some uncapped bars but they are not in places where they present a hazard. I hope that clarifies the situation.
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
When someones only post is to have a go at the OP then it doesn't look good.
The tendancy then is for them to not post pics or comments in case they get bashed for it.
Seen it happen a heap on forums. Not just this one either.
Anyway, back to the job at hand aye.
Well i guess i may have been a bit over sensitive on the criticism of my comment...
Please know that I didn't mean for my first post to look like i was having a go at the OP.
On with the show!
For my own knowledge: I know these are on the outside of a wall, but really the crew will be working from this high outside when raising walls right? (regarding Riley's comment)
Please know that I didn't mean for my first post to look like i was having a go at the OP.
On with the show!
For my own knowledge: I know these are on the outside of a wall, but really the crew will be working from this high outside when raising walls right? (regarding Riley's comment)
Back to the concrete work. We placed the basement slab yesterday. It was only about 850 sf but the process would be pretty similar for a slab 20x bigger.
We used the conveyor to get the concrete in.
A laser mounted to a column provides grade control.
A laser receiver mounted to a rod is used to build a 'wet pad' of concrete at finish grade.
The guys connect the pads to create 'rails' and then turn 90 degrees and use the 'rails' as guides to screed the main area of the slab.
For a small pour like this, its easier to screed the slab by hand. For bigger slabs, we'd use a vibra screed.
A shorter screed is used to dish out around the floor drains. I only put about 3/4" of pitch to the drains. I hates when you fall into the damn things when there's too much pitch
A pass with the bullfloat and we're read to move on the the next panel.
I wasn't around to get pictures of the floating and troweling process but the guys used a 36" power trowel to get a hard troweled surface. They also cut a few control joints to mitigate the re-entrant corners that could result in a random crack.
I returned a little later to lay Hydra-cure curing sheets and wet the slab down.
These sheets have two plys - a plastic top sheet that seals in a felt-like bottom sheet that holds water. I'll leave it on for seven days re-wetting if necessary.
We used the conveyor to get the concrete in.
A laser mounted to a column provides grade control.
A laser receiver mounted to a rod is used to build a 'wet pad' of concrete at finish grade.
The guys connect the pads to create 'rails' and then turn 90 degrees and use the 'rails' as guides to screed the main area of the slab.
For a small pour like this, its easier to screed the slab by hand. For bigger slabs, we'd use a vibra screed.
A shorter screed is used to dish out around the floor drains. I only put about 3/4" of pitch to the drains. I hates when you fall into the damn things when there's too much pitch
A pass with the bullfloat and we're read to move on the the next panel.
I wasn't around to get pictures of the floating and troweling process but the guys used a 36" power trowel to get a hard troweled surface. They also cut a few control joints to mitigate the re-entrant corners that could result in a random crack.
I returned a little later to lay Hydra-cure curing sheets and wet the slab down.
These sheets have two plys - a plastic top sheet that seals in a felt-like bottom sheet that holds water. I'll leave it on for seven days re-wetting if necessary.
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ODIS
Well-known member
Would think that you are pretty pleased with the progress thus far. I know there is much more work to be completed and the build is great fun for many of us to watch. Again, appreciate the dedication to keep the new progress reports coming.
Ody.
Ody.
The guys connect the pads to create 'rails' and then turn 90 degrees and use the 'rails' as guides to screed the main area of the slab.
For a small pour like this, its easier to screed the slab by hand. For bigger slabs, we'd use a vibra screed.
If I didn't know better, I'd think these guys were going to screed themselves into a corner.
burleymike
Well-known member
WOW, I love checking this thread every day. It reminds me of when I was a kid watching an office building being built nearby.
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
YES! I love watching professional construction, and LL is doing a great job documenting it! Its almost like we're standing by watching!
csp
Well-known member
Is the roof drain running inside the house? It looks like it is. If so, how much concern is there about noise of water running through the pipe. Maybe it's in a part of the house where it's isolated from living spaces pretty well and not of concern.
I'm a big fan of cast iron drains that run through walls or in/around living spaces. It's very quiet compared to PVC or ABS.
I'm a big fan of cast iron drains that run through walls or in/around living spaces. It's very quiet compared to PVC or ABS.
Before I respond to a couple questions, let me go back to the issue of rebar caps for a second. I figure if your going to put yourself out there by doing a thread like this you better be ready for some criticism. You guys go ahead and weigh in whenever you want.
I got called on the lack of caps and brought it to the attention of the crew. They were as embarrassed as I was and have made it a point ever since to make sure all the caps are in place around them. The uncapped bars are well above the level the guys are working on or in areas where they don't need to go.
The work so far could easily have been the same for a stick built house - basically foundations and slabs. Realistically, it will probably take 50% longer to complete a concrete and steel superstructure than it would to use more conventional methods. If I can keep my crew, I'm pretty sure we can get the house weathertight by cold weather.
It's about 5 hours drive. I'd be happy to give you a tour if you decide to brave the drive or I could send my black stealth helicopter to pick you up.
I wondered if anyone would mention that and to be honest I questioned it myself while they were doing it. They are actually building the 'rail' in the photo before they turned 90 degrees and screeded right to left. If I were doing it, I might set it all up the opposite direction but since I (thankfully) wasn't the one doing it, I decided to let them do it their way.
That's a great point. Other than a vertical chase, we haven't fully developed the routing for roof drain piping. I'll definitely keep your suggestion in mind. Thanks
I got called on the lack of caps and brought it to the attention of the crew. They were as embarrassed as I was and have made it a point ever since to make sure all the caps are in place around them. The uncapped bars are well above the level the guys are working on or in areas where they don't need to go.
The work so far could easily have been the same for a stick built house - basically foundations and slabs. Realistically, it will probably take 50% longer to complete a concrete and steel superstructure than it would to use more conventional methods. If I can keep my crew, I'm pretty sure we can get the house weathertight by cold weather.
It's about 5 hours drive. I'd be happy to give you a tour if you decide to brave the drive or I could send my black stealth helicopter to pick you up.
I wondered if anyone would mention that and to be honest I questioned it myself while they were doing it. They are actually building the 'rail' in the photo before they turned 90 degrees and screeded right to left. If I were doing it, I might set it all up the opposite direction but since I (thankfully) wasn't the one doing it, I decided to let them do it their way.
That's a great point. Other than a vertical chase, we haven't fully developed the routing for roof drain piping. I'll definitely keep your suggestion in mind. Thanks
ishiboo
Well-known member
Looking fantastic as usual.
On the floor drains, I would still have a trap (hopefully with an accessible clean out)... otherwise you'll open a door and **** whatever smell is in your foundation drains into the house via the basement
Backflow preventer would be good if you were in a flat area which could flood, looks like you have that mostly taken care of though with your elevation
On the floor drains, I would still have a trap (hopefully with an accessible clean out)... otherwise you'll open a door and **** whatever smell is in your foundation drains into the house via the basement
Backflow preventer would be good if you were in a flat area which could flood, looks like you have that mostly taken care of though with your elevation
JimVonBaden
Well-known member
I have to say, you have one hell of a great attitude, and really do seem to want some constructive advice and comments.
I know I speak for many when I say I am very glad you chose to share this with us in such detail!
Thanks,
Jim
I know I speak for many when I say I am very glad you chose to share this with us in such detail!
Thanks,
Jim
Thedoc14
Well-known member
on the noisy down pipes, what we have done is wrap them in the felt carpet underlay. But I think now you can get styrene about 2" thick in 2 half's, like what they wrap around refrigerated cooling lines for big roof A/C units. tape them around and you would not hear much.
Oh yeah, I will just sneak up through one of the stealth passage ways you have to your batboat location along the river. No need for the helicopter.
Oh yeah, I will just sneak up through one of the stealth passage ways you have to your batboat location along the river. No need for the helicopter.
Mr onetwo
Well-known member
I would second the suggestion of using cast iron "no-hub" pipe and fittings for the rain leaders.Very standard practice for interior drain lines of all types where noise transmission is a concern.Extra cost is nothing in the overall context of this house...don't forget plenty of cleanouts.
I have to say, you have one hell of a great attitude, and really do seem to want some constructive advice and comments.
I know I speak for many when I say I am very glad you chose to share this with us in such detail!
Thanks,
Jim
I will still add though, that you could heat up this thread from a 1000°C to a 2000°C by sometimes adding a wide-angle overview-pic (like you just did, awesome pic!!) as well as the occasional picture from across the river. I really like how it looks quite differently from across the river.
Let me also add that I am very jealous of that lot. The river, the beautiful road down to the house, the even more beautiful trees. A truly stunning place. Really curious and excited to see the "final" product (you know, a house is never really finished..
).If you do your housewarming and feel like having some German specialties (sausages, beer, anything), I will happily take your offer to get a ride by your private jet or submarine and bring plenty of delicious supplies
