The Concrete Underground

[magnumleigh]

Spent a good while today going through this entire build so far, makes for very good reading indeed - thanks for sharing. I love it so far (the boat dock is great!) and look forward to reading more updates

 

[Vernmotor]

Well I have been reading this all along. But have not posted.. What a build.I know nothing about building. so I would not be of any help. I am a auto tech. I am just glad you are thick skin and still posting ! LOL Keep up the great read..I am learning

 

[BigGMC]

I thought passing the Pex through some PVC sweeps was a nice touch to help renforce the tubing as it exits the slab. Gonna keep that in mind for my build.
I was surprised to see, at least what I gathered from the pictures, that it appears the radient tubing was not pressurized during the pour.

 

[KPSquared]

I've never seen it pressurized before. What's the reasoning? Just to prevent a potential collapse of a line or what?

 

[one-110]

The radiant tubing is typically pressurized during the pour so that if the tubing is punctured by a misplaced boot or lifting hook, it is immediately obvious and can be repaired before the concrete sets up.

 

[KPSquared]

Makes sense.

 

[clarky456]

It is at this point I find myself anxious to see what the next several weeks hold in store. The original post went into some detail about thermal losses (ICF, styrofoam insulated roof) but not enough for this guy. I'm curious as to how all the little details will be taken care of. Loss of energy, especially in your location, can put a dent in the pocketbook. Comparing the past to the present, energy is certainly not getting any cheaper! Wonderful job thus far, hope to build a castle of my own someday. If not this life, perhaps the next!

 

[bostonlou]

found this thread today while looking to rent an 18 wheeler for my son's 3rd bday party

not sure what keywords i used

but wow what an awesome thread... thanks LL


so this place is about garage renovations? anyone want to come do mine in franklin, ma?

 

[-Brent-]

From the front.

From the back.

In roughly three months (and a whole bunch of crappy weather) your guys have gotten a ton accomplished.

I assume, from this point on small progress will be much more noticeable.

 

[bighammer]

ok I'm on slow dial up out here in the mississippi country and it has taken me about 7 hours to get through this thread. I don't read that slow but it takes me that long to down load the pictures. It's great and I'm subscribed and eagerly looking forward to the rest of the project.

 

[60_Starliner]

If I didn't know better, I'd think these guys were going to screed themselves into a corner.

You can't tell me you had some knucklehead do something similar on field day when it came to waxing the floor in the barracks while in the "Corps"? LOL I know floor wax and concrete are apples to oranges but what you said is exactly what I thought but imagined my reference when I saw that picture.

Love following this post. I even got my wife into following it since she used to work for a concrete aggregate company.

 

[Mr onetwo]

I've never seen it pressurized before. What's the reasoning? Just to prevent a potential collapse of a line or what?

The infloor system should be pressurized with 100 PSI of air for at least the pour and preferablely until put into service.It is to be a "telltale" in case a tube gets nicked.You will see the bubbles up through the concrete so you can locate the damage.You can do a repair and sleeve it right then or come back and chip it out later if the concrete is not finish floor.If you used water instead,you would ruin the concrete in the area of the break.Anyone who does not air up an infloor system for the concrete pour does not know what they are doing and is asking for trouble.How else will you know when a carpenter shoots a nail through your tubing because the damn general contractor couldn't be bothered to have the right short pins on hand for the framers?

 

[Mr onetwo]

I thought passing the Pex through some PVC sweeps was a nice touch to help renforce the tubing as it exits the slab. Gonna keep that in mind for my build.

It's really the easiest and best way to gather all the tails properly and also protect them as they exit the concrete.Protection is a code requirement in some parts of the country and should be everywhere IMHO.

 

[Mr onetwo]

I also wanted to comment on the job your infloor guys did.It is first rate ...I love seeing a nice straight, symmetrical layout.The time they took to make it look good even though it will be buried forever speaks to their pride, care and craftsmanship.Without good people(yourself,your crew and subs) putting this project together with care and good planning....it would turn into nightmare very fast!!! This whole project shows how Americans can do great work if allowed too!

 

[JasonW]

I also wanted to comment on the job your infloor guys did.It is first rate ...I love seeing a nice straight, symmetrical layout.The time they took to make it look good even though it will be buried forever speaks to their pride, care and craftsmanship.Without good people(yourself,your crew and subs) putting this project together with care and good planning....it would turn into nightmare very fast!!! This whole project shows how Americans can do great work if allowed too!

I second that! When the hidden work is top notch you know you have the right crew. This is a beautiful project, can't wait to see it finished.

I'll tell you though, all that prep work for cold and frost and the like makes me appreciate living in Southern California where I only have to worry about earthquakes.

 

[ConCretin]

If you've noticed a fall in update frequency, it's partly a lack of content and partly the fact that I don't have internet access at the site yet and we're spending most of our time there. Hopefully both will be remedied soon.

After a productive prior week, last week was a bit of a transtion period. With foundations complete we got eveything backfilled.

We also took delivery of the LiteDeck panels that form the floor over the basement and the cantilever.

You can see the metal stud siffeners and the recess that forms the beam. The panels seem pretty rugged and the shorter ones easily support a man's weight. Discretion being the better part of valor, we're staying off the longer pans until the shoring is in.

Speaking of shoring, it also arrived.

We spent a fair amount of time testing and fitting the LiteDeck to figure out the best way to run it. We have to take into account toilets, shower drains, etc to ensure nothing runs through a beam. The panels only extend 1" onto the lower flange of the beams to we're screwing strapping to the bottoms to keep them from sliding.

Here's a shot of the LiteDeck in the cantilevered section. We needed 12" beams out here (we're using 10" beams elsewhere) so rather than placing the LiteDeck on the lower flange, I had angles welded to the sides to provide room for an addtional 2" of insulation.

We also installed the headers that support the LiteDeck over the entrances to the ductwork crawlspaces.

When the beams were fabricated, we missed the angle and a monting tab on the side of one of the beams so I had a welder out to remedy the problem.

The holes in the ends of the angles are for rebar that passes through a concrete perimeter beam that holds up the glass doors and wnidows above.

Despite the fact that we have plans, we are still figuring out a lot of details as we go. We're paying a lot of ettention to insulation. The cantilever beam on the edge is getting 6" of rigid with the outemost piece doing double duty as an edge form for the slab. The insulation is glued in temporarilly but will be more firmly attached by the vertical rain screen furring that will attach to the PT nailer at the bottom

We're reattaching to the coil ties in the concrete from the wall placement to to hold it all in place.

 

[csp]

Glad you're documenting this. I've never seen the process for installing ICFs for forming a floor/ceiling. Wish I was closer and could see it in person. We used ICFs for our basement and now I wish the entire house had them rather than traditional framing.

 

[GregN]

Subscribed. This thing is my dream house. I can't wait to see the finished product. Thanks for all of the documentation!

 

[Buzz Lightyear]

I look forward to these updates - An amazing house in an amazing location.

 

[Thedoc14]

Lets see if i get this??
The lite deck is the formwork for your floor, that you leave in place to add more insulation value

So the reo sits ontop and the concrete will vibrate down into all the gaps and tie in your steel beams

Once you get that ground floor down all will look more logical in appearance...

 

[ConCretin]

First off, thanks to everyone for the positive comments. I'm glad you guys are enjoying the thread.

I will still add though, that you could heat up this thread from a 1000°C to a 2000°C by sometimes adding a wide-angle overview-pic (like you just did, awesome pic!!) as well as the occasional picture from across the river. I really like how it looks quite differently from across the river.

I'll make it a point to include them from time to time. When the leaves come down this fall, it should make for quite an unveiling for the neighbors across the river.

The infloor system should be pressurized with 100 PSI of air for at least the pour and preferablely until put into service.

I asked my geothermal guy about that. He told me that he always used to pressurize the lines but has gotten away from it- the lines are factory tested and he has installed a million feet of tubing without a problem. He said he'd be glad to pressurize the lines if I wished.

In this case I wasn't particularly concerned because the tubing didn't get any abuse but I'll definitely give it some thought on future placements. I'll also be sure to have ONLY the correct fasteners available on site

Lets see if i get this??
The lite deck is the formwork for your floor, that you leave in place to add more insulation value

So the reo sits ontop and the concrete will vibrate down into all the gaps and tie in your steel beams

You have it exactly right. The LiteDeck is a stay in place form that creates integral beams. The profile reduces the amount of concrete required and provides sound and thermal insulation.

We're placing two #5 bars in the bottom of each beam. When you place the deck, you start by filling just the beams and voids to make sure you fill them completely, then you place the slab over the top.

Think of it as an alternative to metal form deck. LiteDeck can span greater distances than metal decking though in our case the spans are quite short due to the overall design. I considered using metal deck but the cost to frame and insulate would have been more.

 

[wnstwolf]

CSP totally agree with your comment. I too have the ICF's for my basement and the supplier tried to talk me into doing a lot more with them. I could not buy in but wish I did. Seeing what LL is doing on this project just has me amazed. This is a home for life..!!!

 

[vr4joe]

This is a really cool project! Subscribed!

 

[JWILL]

That looks great! What brand of forms are you using for the metal ones? Ive always thought it would be cool to build a house out of concrete.

 

[ConCretin]

Work is continuing on the LiteDeck installation. As with anything new, it's taking a little time to figure things out.

As I mentioned, each beam gets two #5 bars. I purchased these spacers from LiteDeck

Here's a shot below showing the strapping we're screwing to the panels to keep them from sliding left to right and dropping off the beam flanges

We also started putting up the shoring that supports the LiteDeck until the concrete has reached adequate strength.

We have also started work on the shoring for the concrete perimeter beam that supports the glass wall in the master bedroom.

Another view from above. The beam will placed on the rigid insulation we slid in under the LiteDeck and will get covered with a piece run vertically.

Here's how the LiteDeck frames into the headers we built over the entrances to the ductwork crawlspaces.

And finally a view from above to help you keep your bearings;

The plan is to finish the LiteDeck and the metal decking over the crawl spaces this week so we can move on to roughing in underground electrical and plumbing next week.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Is the strapping something the LiteDeck rep has dealt with before? Just wondering if their company has come up with some other solution for preventing panel shift on the I-beam lip?

Once again, thanks for keeping this very interesting thread updated!

 

[Justanoldguy]

Is the shoring put in dead straight or do you have a slight upward camber in it?

 

[red]

We're placing two #5 bars in the bottom of each beam. When you place the deck, you start by filling just the beams and voids to make sure you fill them completely, then you place the slab over the top.

[/B]

With pouring the floor do you do it the same day as the beams? Or do you do the deck like when you pour the walls, the bottom is poured around the perimeter allowed to set up some before the top is poured.

 

[Justanoldguy]

It would all be poured in one to avoid a cold break.

 

[Thedoc14]

Hey LL,

Do you only need the one shoring prop under the litedeck ? Or will you prop it out some more for the actual slab load later. That stuff looks real neat underneath. Do you do anything to it after or just leave it raw. I know it is not exposed to the outside. Do you silicone up your edges or does that stuff lock in tight, what about along the I beams or side walls.

Love all the Reo Capping in that last picture

 

[vr4joe]

What a great site!

 

[ConCretin]

Is the strapping something the LiteDeck rep has dealt with before? Just wondering if their company has come up with some other solution for preventing panel shift on the I-beam lip?

It's something we came up with but it's consistent with LiteDecks recommendations.

Is the shoring put in dead straight or do you have a slight upward camber in it?

It's pretty much flat. On longer spans an engineer might want some camber but our spans are very short. I'd be tempted to add a little just for good measure but we'd just lift the panels off the beam flanges

With pouring the floor do you do it the same day as the beams? Or do you do the deck like when you pour the walls, the bottom is poured around the perimeter allowed to set up some before the top is poured.

It would all be poured in one to avoid a cold break.

Justanoldguy is correct. We'll fill and vibrate the beams and all the little voids in each section to ensure we have good consolidation and then go back immediately and place the slab.

Do you only need the one shoring prop under the litedeck ? Or will you prop it out some more for the actual slab load later. That stuff looks real neat underneath. Do you do anything to it after or just leave it raw. I know it is not exposed to the outside. Do you silicone up your edges or does that stuff lock in tight, what about along the I beams or side walls.

You have to shore any span greater than 5'. The Doka posts and joists have plenty of capacity as you see them installed.

We have a couple spans less than 5' that are not shored. They seem pretty rugged but they do make me a bit nervous since they're only supported by an inch of bearing on each end. We'll work from the I beams during the placement just to be safe.

We'll go around with some spray foam to fill any voids to keep the leakage to a minimum and clean it up after the pour. Since this placement is over the basement, we'll probably leave it as is. The same system is used throughout the house and garage and will get drywalled.

 

[bighammer]

may have been covered already but what do you do for plumbing or wiring with these floor pannels?? Do you cut it and insert??

 

[51rider]

I last logged on in June & I have spent a couple of hours catching up on this.
Like others, I struggled to understand what was being done but an earlier poster put the model above one of the site panoramic shots & it all just gelled-thank you to whomever did that & I wish I could recall your user name to give you the credit you deserve.

What a fantastic project

It still boggles my mind that none of what we have seen thus far will ever see the light of day again save on this site and perhaps in a photo journal that maybe you should present your wife with on the day you open the door for her to step into her new home.

Most Excellent indeed

 

[HOTFR8]

That overall photo sure puts the project in perspective....wow. I also like the way you have protected and capped the steel for safety with the timber.

 

[ConCretin]

may have been covered already but what do you do for plumbing or wiring with these floor pannels?? Do you cut it and insert??

We try to sleeve as much as we can to allow the MEP to pass through when it's installed. Some of it will have to run inside the foam floor and wall construction. We'll use hot wire tools to cut slots in the foam to run wires, etc. and spray foam afterward to fill them in. As you can imagine, the decision making and planning required for a job like this is daunting. Hopefully we get most of it right.

It still boggles my mind that none of what we have seen thus far will ever see the light of day again save on this site and perhaps in a photo journal that maybe you should present your wife with on the day you open the door for her to step into her new home.

Thanks 51. Being in the concrete business, you get used to all your work getting covered up. You have to take pride in knowing that it's there and done right whether anyone else knows or not. I like the photo journal idea. I wonder if there's any way to download a GJ thread.

That overall photo sure puts the project in perspective....wow. I also like the way you have protected and capped the steel for safety with the timber.

I decided to just cover everything up, whether it was a hazard to anyone or not. I don't want to have that discussion again. We build those covers by the truckload out of the plywood we replace in our forms. They stay in place a whole lot better than the plastic ones that fall off in a stiff breeze.

 

[justbummin1]

Are you kidding me 3 days with no updates???? Whats going on here? You are going to have to fix this limited access to internet because those of us that are hooked need to have our fix!

Rob

 

[NathanJax]

Are you kidding me 3 days with no updates???? Whats going on here? You are going to have to fix this limited access to internet because those of us that are hooked need to have our fix!

Rob

we might have to start a collection to get him access out there!!!

 

[-Brent-]

Sidetracking a bit but how is your part of the river for skiing and such? Also, what's the water temp like right now?

 

[Spencyg]

Nice work so far. Glad to see a few folks from Maine in here...

If it isn't private knowledge, what body of water did you decide to build this palace on?