The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
carlsondajj
Well-known member
Holy ****, am I glad that pour is behind us. In addition to requiring a huge amount of work and thought, it was our first placement on LiteDeck and to be honest, I was nervous.
It turns out my worrying was for naught - the placement went off without a hitch.
We started by filling the beams and voids to the top of the beams and vibrating thoroughly. We used a 4,000 psi non air entrained mix with a midrange that allowed us a 5" slump. The stuff flowed beautifully and I'm confident we have excellent fill and consolidation.
We had two vibrators going to make sure we could keep up with the placement rate and not miss an area.
This is what happens when the job foreman wants to get a photo of the rare occurrence of the boss actually working and yells 'HEY!'
After the beams are filled, the LiteDeck is just another 3" slab. Build your wet pads and start rodding.
We built in about 3/8" of slope over the cantilever to accommodate expected deflection. The finishers thought I was nuts when I told them what I wanted.
Next comes bull floating
We got the first truck about 7:30 and by 9:30 the concrete was in and I was breathing easier.
If you wait until the concrete sets up enough to support your weight, the hand work will be a lot harder so the guys walk out on pieces of board insulation. They make knee boards to do this but sometimes simpler is simpler.
Next we put a 36" power trowel on with float blades. The mix set at a very uniform rate though there was a fair amount of bleed water, which was not surprising given the foam and depth of concrete. It was raining underneath as well.
Here's a shot of the infamous shower drain area. The LiteDeck is rated for a 3" overlay and we pushed it a bit under the shower. It held up but there were a couple seams that tried to open up.
After the LiteDeck was in, we moved on to the 'roofs' over the ductwork crawl spaces. I figured we use any excess for the crawlspaces and then order a balance.
I actually figured the LiteDeck concrete pretty close. I came up with 20 cy or two trucks. I stressed a little that we'd run short (Yikes - cold joints) but we had about 2 wheelbarrows extra.
Another 5 yards and crawl spaces were done as well. The top of these slabs is at sub grade elevation so we'll install 2" of rigid and then the finished 4" slab on grade.
The finishers were off the slab by 2:00. Since the slab will be covered by flooring, I wanted a steel troweled finish short of burnished. We covered it up with curing blankets and will leave it be for the next 7 days.
After that we'll remove the curing and strip the shoring. My engineer wanted 3000 psi concrete so naturally I used 4000. If I get the average of 70% in seven days, I'll be pretty much at full design strength.
With the slab behind us the carpentry crew moved on to the next project. Remember when I said we were done foundation work? Well, I forgot about an architectural 'heat storage' wall in the garage that needs a footing.
It's inside the building, so frost isn't a concern. We'll put the top of the footing just under the slab and place the slab right over it.
It turns out my worrying was for naught - the placement went off without a hitch.
We started by filling the beams and voids to the top of the beams and vibrating thoroughly. We used a 4,000 psi non air entrained mix with a midrange that allowed us a 5" slump. The stuff flowed beautifully and I'm confident we have excellent fill and consolidation.
We had two vibrators going to make sure we could keep up with the placement rate and not miss an area.
This is what happens when the job foreman wants to get a photo of the rare occurrence of the boss actually working and yells 'HEY!'
After the beams are filled, the LiteDeck is just another 3" slab. Build your wet pads and start rodding.
We built in about 3/8" of slope over the cantilever to accommodate expected deflection. The finishers thought I was nuts when I told them what I wanted.
Next comes bull floating
We got the first truck about 7:30 and by 9:30 the concrete was in and I was breathing easier.
If you wait until the concrete sets up enough to support your weight, the hand work will be a lot harder so the guys walk out on pieces of board insulation. They make knee boards to do this but sometimes simpler is simpler.
Next we put a 36" power trowel on with float blades. The mix set at a very uniform rate though there was a fair amount of bleed water, which was not surprising given the foam and depth of concrete. It was raining underneath as well.
Here's a shot of the infamous shower drain area. The LiteDeck is rated for a 3" overlay and we pushed it a bit under the shower. It held up but there were a couple seams that tried to open up.
After the LiteDeck was in, we moved on to the 'roofs' over the ductwork crawl spaces. I figured we use any excess for the crawlspaces and then order a balance.
I actually figured the LiteDeck concrete pretty close. I came up with 20 cy or two trucks. I stressed a little that we'd run short (Yikes - cold joints) but we had about 2 wheelbarrows extra.
Another 5 yards and crawl spaces were done as well. The top of these slabs is at sub grade elevation so we'll install 2" of rigid and then the finished 4" slab on grade.
The finishers were off the slab by 2:00. Since the slab will be covered by flooring, I wanted a steel troweled finish short of burnished. We covered it up with curing blankets and will leave it be for the next 7 days.
After that we'll remove the curing and strip the shoring. My engineer wanted 3000 psi concrete so naturally I used 4000. If I get the average of 70% in seven days, I'll be pretty much at full design strength.
With the slab behind us the carpentry crew moved on to the next project. Remember when I said we were done foundation work? Well, I forgot about an architectural 'heat storage' wall in the garage that needs a footing.
It's inside the building, so frost isn't a concern. We'll put the top of the footing just under the slab and place the slab right over it.
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HOTFR8
Banned
WOW......I bet you are glad that day is over and I also guess it was a big day.
HOTFR8
Banned
Wide shot...... WOW........ I am glad this is you and not me. A great project.
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I can't wait for the house warming gala, a nice jazz band echoing across the lake, ah yes.
buildmyown
Well-known member
Insane project. I know you said it but the people across the river will have a surprise when the leaves fall.
Leyenda30
Active member
LL,
Thanks for the updates and Pics...they are like candy...waiting patiently for the next. To keep all this going with a big crew and the complicated details and at the end of a long day to take the time to share is exceptional. Here is to wishing you smooth sailing for the remainder. I'm sure a few cold ones were welcome after today's pour. JP
Thanks for the updates and Pics...they are like candy...waiting patiently for the next. To keep all this going with a big crew and the complicated details and at the end of a long day to take the time to share is exceptional. Here is to wishing you smooth sailing for the remainder. I'm sure a few cold ones were welcome after today's pour. JP
Baada
Well-known member
So I was just cruising the GJ Flooring section and it got me thinking about what your plans were for your floors in the living spaces. If you have even thought that far ahead yet??? Are you going with traditional flooring materials or are you going to do some treatment to the concrete.
Given how impressive your project is thus far I'm hoping for big things!
Given how impressive your project is thus far I'm hoping for big things!
WOW! This thing is going to be fantastic! Whee are your with respect to Randolph or Pittston. I am here from California helping a friend set up his retirement home. If time willing I'd like to stop by. PM me if you have time.
aabirdman
aabirdman
The floors will be pretty conventional I'm afraid - wood, stone, tile, etc. Ironically, we're not doing any exposed decorative concrete.
The building sequence requires that the floors go in before the structural steel so we have to leave block-outs for the columns. Given the block-outs, the likelihood of cracking over the LiteDeck and all the subsequent heavy construction that happens after the slab, I don't think we'd end up with an acceptable product. Plus there's more than enough concrete as it is
We're pretty easy to find and GJ'ers are always welcome to stop by. I'll drop you a PM.
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csp
Well-known member
Our basement walls are ICFs and the floor is still just a slab as it's unfinished. It's quieter down there than on the main floor, which is standard stick build, though it is a tight build for standard framing. This is one of the reasons that I wished we had gone ICFs for the entire house.
It seems that the mass behind the foam really separates conditioned space from the outside and I really like that separation that it creates.
Hottrod
Well-known member
Its been said before and deserves being said again (and again!)- This is such a great project to be able to look in on! Thanks for the updates!
xjjeepman
Well-known member
Great thread, great build, great attitude! What else could you ask for. Thanks for letting us follow your journey to build the ultimate concrete dream house!
Pretty sparse update today. The crew has been called off for better paying work but before they left they finished a little footing for an interior architectural concrete wall that flanks the corridor from the garage.
The footing has to step because it crosses the transition from house floors to garage floor, which is one foot lower.
They actually excavated and placed the footing yesterday and showed up this morning to strip on their way to the next job.
With no crew for the balance of the week, I'm working on some fairly extensive underground utilities. I hope to have them completed in the house by Monday am so we can complete backfilling and move on to vapor barrier and under-slab insulation.
The plumber is due Monday to do his under slab work in the garage. My new Rotary lift is being delivered tomorrow morning and I hope to set it in place Monday as well. If all goes well the insulation will be down everywhere by Wednesday for the radiant tubing install scheduled for Thursday and Friday. Then rebar and slabs. It will be a nice milestone to hit.
The footing has to step because it crosses the transition from house floors to garage floor, which is one foot lower.
They actually excavated and placed the footing yesterday and showed up this morning to strip on their way to the next job.
With no crew for the balance of the week, I'm working on some fairly extensive underground utilities. I hope to have them completed in the house by Monday am so we can complete backfilling and move on to vapor barrier and under-slab insulation.
The plumber is due Monday to do his under slab work in the garage. My new Rotary lift is being delivered tomorrow morning and I hope to set it in place Monday as well. If all goes well the insulation will be down everywhere by Wednesday for the radiant tubing install scheduled for Thursday and Friday. Then rebar and slabs. It will be a nice milestone to hit.
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I hope you dont get much better at doing your journal, or else I feel it is indeed SO good that either you or GJ will force upon us a fee to gain access to this thread of awesome 
Woogeroo
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing all of these photos and details.
What a fascinating build.
-W
What a fascinating build.
-W
TurboCup87
Well-known member
This really is an awesome build. The time that you take to show us all is greatly appreciated!
99LeCouch
Well-known member
X100000 to the "wow, this is incredible" sentiments. Thank you for sharing!
Lurking in Maine
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 14, 2012
- Messages
- 77
Thanks for the continued updates! It is looking awesome!!
Holy ****, am I glad that pour is behind us. In addition to requiring a huge amount of work and thought, it was our first placement on LiteDeck and to be honest, I was nervous.
I must admit, unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to keep up with most of this thread, but what I've seen is outstanding. I get a kick out of the terminology you use, as it often sounds like myself typing.
I understand your fear over the lite-deck, especially with the size of the head on the Wacker. We have a very similar ******** combo, and with one of the larger heads, it's lead us into some problems in the past, enough problems that I would have probably put a 1" head on it for this pour if I was in your shoes...........
I'l be sure to dig back to the beginnig of this thread this Fall when things slow down, as I can see I missed a lot of impressive action and construction. Keep up the impeccable job............
Coyote Red
Well-known member
Sometimes I think I understand what's going on here, and then a few more pics and I'm lost again. Mindboggling build. Thank you.
You have a sharp eye but the picture is a little deceiving - it is a 1" head on the Wacker. It's always nice to hear from a fellow traveler
And once again, thanks to everyone for their interest and kind words.
The fact that you guys are following along makes it easy to keep up the documentation - something I probably wouldn't do otherwise. I'm sure when I look back, I'll be glad to have it.
With no crew on site for most of the week, progress has slowed a bit. Despite some rainy weather, I spent the weekend installing under-slab conduit.
As you can see, there's a lot of it - and there's more to go.
I left the sub grade down about 6" so I could run the conduit. When we're done, we'll bring the conveyor down and bring the grade up.
Unlike a conventional structure, you can't just go in after the framing is up and drill holes. I'm trying to get as much under the slab as I can because it is much easier than running through concrete above.
Since a lot of design decisions still need to be made, my focus has been to preserve options. For example, I'm sure we'll have a lot of lighting in the architectural walls but I don't know what type or how it will be controlled so I ran a power conduit for a switched light and another conduit to a central point for possible lighting controls.
I've got a few more things to install before we can proceed with backfill, vapor barrier and rigid. My geothermal guy is scheduled for late next week so I've gotta hustle.
As you can see, there's a lot of it - and there's more to go.
I left the sub grade down about 6" so I could run the conduit. When we're done, we'll bring the conveyor down and bring the grade up.
Unlike a conventional structure, you can't just go in after the framing is up and drill holes. I'm trying to get as much under the slab as I can because it is much easier than running through concrete above.
Since a lot of design decisions still need to be made, my focus has been to preserve options. For example, I'm sure we'll have a lot of lighting in the architectural walls but I don't know what type or how it will be controlled so I ran a power conduit for a switched light and another conduit to a central point for possible lighting controls.
I've got a few more things to install before we can proceed with backfill, vapor barrier and rigid. My geothermal guy is scheduled for late next week so I've gotta hustle.
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SiGmA_X
Well-known member
Very cool! That's a lot of conduit!
IGO2XS
Well-known member
Just finishing a custom home with lighting control I would certainly have a lighting plan in place before I covered up my conduit along with any network or whole house sound plans. Particulalry since you are building a concrete bunker without the luxury of frame walls to fall back on. This would be emplimented by hiring a lighting control designer (Lutron, Vantage). There is wired (my choice), wireless and infinite combinations of how to put it all together. Looks like your building contemporary and there are so many cool things you can do with lights. I think lighting design is one of the most important but overlooked part of building a house. I was lucky having a friend in the business who I trusted and who was good. Good lighting control makes living in a home so much easier. As with my home where I intend to live the rest of my life there is no question lighting control was a worthwhile expenditure. However, good lighting control is expensive.....very expensive
Lutron......Vantage.........your place probably starts at $30K and you could make it $50K if you wanted to knock it out of the park. The electrician wires the house completely different for lighting control than if you dont have it. You know the difference between a good concrete contractor and a bad concrete contractor.......it is the same with lighting control guys. The right guy can work magic.
red
Well-known member
Consider numbering the electrical conduit. Save a lot of aggravation later on, when it comes to wiring. Also fought with my brother (A geek) on networking. I ran hard wire and he went wireless. When he saw how much faster my network was running, he switched to hard wire. Pain in the *** to run in a finished house. Almost impossible to run after your done pouring yours.
Also made the mistake of running phone lines in 3/4" conduit. (160ft run) Damn fiber optics heads kept getting stuck when we tried to run them through the line. Tech had to splice the fiber optic head back on. (Yes, they make removable heads for the fiber optics lines but the tech didn't have any)
Also made the mistake of running phone lines in 3/4" conduit. (160ft run) Damn fiber optics heads kept getting stuck when we tried to run them through the line. Tech had to splice the fiber optic head back on. (Yes, they make removable heads for the fiber optics lines but the tech didn't have any)
You guys have seen us use our conveyor truck throughout the project. It proved its usefulness again yesterday when we brought the grade up the final 6" inside the structure.
Other methods would have been very difficult given all the pipes and conduits.
The big excavator is gone so we used the Bobcat to feed the conveyor. A bit slower but it works fine.
We compacted the sand as we went. I hadn't planned to import all our back fill material but the sand is easy to place and makes a great bedding material for all the utilities.
Today we finished up a few underground items like the central vac and then started placing the vapor barrier and insulation. As you can see, we're going right over ductwork crawl spaces.
By the end of the day we had the main house pretty much done.
We also got started on rough grading the garage. Yes, we're actually going to build a garage in this thread.
Tomorrow we'll be installing the Rotary lift in the pit we built many months ago as well as garage floor drains. We're slipping a bit on the schedule but I'm still hoping to be laying radiant tubing Thursday and Friday.
Other methods would have been very difficult given all the pipes and conduits.
The big excavator is gone so we used the Bobcat to feed the conveyor. A bit slower but it works fine.
We compacted the sand as we went. I hadn't planned to import all our back fill material but the sand is easy to place and makes a great bedding material for all the utilities.
Today we finished up a few underground items like the central vac and then started placing the vapor barrier and insulation. As you can see, we're going right over ductwork crawl spaces.
By the end of the day we had the main house pretty much done.
We also got started on rough grading the garage. Yes, we're actually going to build a garage in this thread.
Tomorrow we'll be installing the Rotary lift in the pit we built many months ago as well as garage floor drains. We're slipping a bit on the schedule but I'm still hoping to be laying radiant tubing Thursday and Friday.
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Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Hard to schedule in workers when they have other "paying" jobs to do.
Been there and have the T shirt ..
Been there and have the T shirt ..
IGO2XS, Lots of great information and advice. Much appreciated! It's definitely not ideal to be placing slabs before our lighting design is complete but I've gotta keep the project moving. I've had detailed discussions with my electrician and hope I'm not eliminating future options. Underfloor conduit is the easiest way to run wire but I have other options if necessary.
We're planning on some basic lighting control (one Lutron controller for the main living space) and some controlled site lighting, but are not going too crazy with it. Like you said, the $$ add up fast.
Thanks for the suggestions - I've taken detailed notes and photos of the conduit but a numbering system would tie it all together. I didn't run any conduit less than 1".
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Thedoc14
Well-known member
Looking Good.. Still thinking about popping over on Saturday, I wont be in the way would I ?
Nick.
Nick.
HOTFR8
Banned
BlackSheepSpeedShop
Well-known member
Awesome build, I will be checking back every day.
Work continues on vapor barrier and rigid insulation as we make our way down the connector into the garage. The conduits you see on the right supply the architectural wall above with a power circuit and a lighting control circuit. The one just beyond is for uplights in the corridor floor.
The plumbing rough in for the garage bathroom is in. We had a slight elevation problem so the bathroom floor will be 6" above the garage floor.
The 2" pipe you see from the floor drain coming up in the corner is a drain in the compressor closet. If anybody has any thoughts as to how this should be terminated, I'd like to hear them.
We also roughed in for the floor drains. I'm putting a couple in the section where we'll park the daily drivers. I opted not to put one in the work shop section where the lift is.
Speaking of lifts.... We installed the Rotary in-floor lift into the pit we built way back at the start of the thread. I had it delivered to my shop and brought it to the site on one of our flat bed trucks. We used the RT forklift to set it.
The unit came with lifting tabs attached to the top, which made it pretty convenient.
The pit size provided by Rotary left plenty of room around the lift and it slid right in.
Rotary provides a very clear installation manual. It calls for the removal of four bolts in the top and the installation of four 1/2" threaded rods to hang the unit.
Rotary suggests placing the concrete floor first and blocking out for the lift. I didn't want a construction joint so we rigged up some blocking to hold the lift in position. The vertical wood supports will come out prior to placement after the unit is 'backfilled'.
You can't really see them in the pictures but we have some coil thread supports that will remain to hold the lift level. We'll finish to the top of the cone, which can be removed after placement leaving 4 neat holes to be patched.
Once the lift was set to grade and levelled, we carefully filled around it with crushed stone while monitoring its position continuosly.
Here it is all backfilled with the specified 2" conduit to bring the hydraulic and air lines from the power unit. I ran a dedicated 1" conduit to bring power from the panel.
Here's a link to the Rotary site for the unit we installed;
http://www.rotarylift.com/templateproduct_Smartlift_Trio.aspx?id=1228
Now I'm really looking forward to getting this thing done. We have a long way to go though epecially if we keep getting weather like this. No work onsite today due to torrential rain. I guess it did help verify that the sub grade around the drains is graded properly.
Damn rain will set me back a few days. At least I'm getting a good water test on my vapor barrier.
The plumbing rough in for the garage bathroom is in. We had a slight elevation problem so the bathroom floor will be 6" above the garage floor.
The 2" pipe you see from the floor drain coming up in the corner is a drain in the compressor closet. If anybody has any thoughts as to how this should be terminated, I'd like to hear them.
We also roughed in for the floor drains. I'm putting a couple in the section where we'll park the daily drivers. I opted not to put one in the work shop section where the lift is.
Speaking of lifts.... We installed the Rotary in-floor lift into the pit we built way back at the start of the thread. I had it delivered to my shop and brought it to the site on one of our flat bed trucks. We used the RT forklift to set it.
The unit came with lifting tabs attached to the top, which made it pretty convenient.
The pit size provided by Rotary left plenty of room around the lift and it slid right in.
Rotary provides a very clear installation manual. It calls for the removal of four bolts in the top and the installation of four 1/2" threaded rods to hang the unit.
Rotary suggests placing the concrete floor first and blocking out for the lift. I didn't want a construction joint so we rigged up some blocking to hold the lift in position. The vertical wood supports will come out prior to placement after the unit is 'backfilled'.
You can't really see them in the pictures but we have some coil thread supports that will remain to hold the lift level. We'll finish to the top of the cone, which can be removed after placement leaving 4 neat holes to be patched.
Once the lift was set to grade and levelled, we carefully filled around it with crushed stone while monitoring its position continuosly.
Here it is all backfilled with the specified 2" conduit to bring the hydraulic and air lines from the power unit. I ran a dedicated 1" conduit to bring power from the panel.
Here's a link to the Rotary site for the unit we installed;
http://www.rotarylift.com/templateproduct_Smartlift_Trio.aspx?id=1228
Now I'm really looking forward to getting this thing done. We have a long way to go though epecially if we keep getting weather like this. No work onsite today due to torrential rain. I guess it did help verify that the sub grade around the drains is graded properly.
Damn rain will set me back a few days. At least I'm getting a good water test on my vapor barrier.
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