csp
Well-known member
If that compressor drain goes into your sanitary sewer drain system, be sure that however you terminate it there should be a trap to keep sewer gases from backing out the open end of it.
The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Be careful, it looks like you got enough rain dumped on the site to float a battleship, or at least the Rotary cartridge! lol
I had the same thought - or should I say heart stopping moment of panic - when I heard the rain at two in the morning. In an effort to get back to sleep, I determined that its weight, the crushed stone and our support blocking will hold it down.
I do have a dilemma though. With all the rain, the entire pit is now full of water. Do I want to place a concrete floor over 200 gallons of trapped water??
I can't get the water out so I'm thinking about some kind of vent to allow the water vapor someplace to go as it eventually evaporates. Hmmm.
Last edited:
ODIS
Well-known member
LL,
Any chance you can still add some up lighting under your lift? That's the one thing I should have added to my shop space. Please see the attached picture of such an installation.
As usual, always enjoy the up-dates.
Ody.
Any chance you can still add some up lighting under your lift? That's the one thing I should have added to my shop space. Please see the attached picture of such an installation.
As usual, always enjoy the up-dates.
Ody.
Is there any way to force a small diameter rigid pipe past the crushed stone to near the bottom, you you can then "****" the water out? Then again maybe it's not worth the trouble....
sounds like a challenge.....with the amount of equipment you have on site(thinking out loud) couldn't you drive some 3/4"or 1" (w/jack hammer) rebar into the stone, pull out (think it would retain its shape especially if it is compacted) and depending on your pump dia. suction go up next size and drive new pipe into stone until the hole is of adequate size ?
I think you guys might be on to something. I've been kicking myself for not foreseeing the problem and sticking a length of pipe in before we placed the stone. I might still be able to get something in there. I'm really not comfortable leaving all that water down there. Just seems like a problem waiting to happen.
charlyo
New member
I would not leave the water in the rock and then encase it in concrete. You need to get the water out somehow. The suggestions about pipe are good. I have also installed these lifts. Make sure you pour the concrete to the correct spot on the lip of the tube. There should be a sticker on the top of the tube showing where to stop the concrete. At the very least make the flat metal portion of the tube slightly higher than the concrete. You do not want any water to get down into the tube and pistons. Allow for any floor finish in the garage. Also make sure the concrete within the swing radius of the lift arms is lower than the top of the tube. It's a b'tch to grind the floor because the arms won't swing.
HOTFR8
Banned
Damn rain will set me back a few days. At least I'm getting a good water test on my vapor barrier.
Doing my floor today in similar weather, well I should say wet, miserable and cold at least we are undercover.
mdbeck1
Well-known member
I'm not an expert (and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night) BUT... how about getting a piece of 1/2" (pick your favorite diameter) galvanized pipe, putting a cap on each end, drilling holes through the sides (down low) and driving it in next to the lift? When you get the depth you want you could pull the top cap and attach a pump of some sort. When you get done you could either leave it in place for future water extraction OR pull it out.
Note: I had to put a grounding rod in the other day. A friend suggested that I try driving it with my Air hammer. It worked like a champ. Took more time to get the equipment together than to drive it in. You might be able to drive your pipe the same way.
Oggy
Well-known member
2 ideas for your water problem:
1) Hilti makes a ground rod driver for your combi-hammer (I know you have ATLEAST one). You put it in the "chisel" setting and it drives the ground rod in, or in this case, your pipe. I'm sure that Bosch, and others make them, but usually a Hilti rep is on speed dial for big concrete contractors...
2) Pump water through your pipe while you push it into the pit, and use that to displace enough of the dirt around the stone so that you can get your pipe down to the bottom. Sounds couter-productive, but in the whole scheme of things it's really just a little bit of water you're adding to be pumped back out.
Good luck, You can never think of every scenario though, it's too big of a job to work out everything that can go wrong. You'll make it work in the end, just make sure you show us how how you do it...
1) Hilti makes a ground rod driver for your combi-hammer (I know you have ATLEAST one). You put it in the "chisel" setting and it drives the ground rod in, or in this case, your pipe. I'm sure that Bosch, and others make them, but usually a Hilti rep is on speed dial for big concrete contractors...
2) Pump water through your pipe while you push it into the pit, and use that to displace enough of the dirt around the stone so that you can get your pipe down to the bottom. Sounds couter-productive, but in the whole scheme of things it's really just a little bit of water you're adding to be pumped back out.
Good luck, You can never think of every scenario though, it's too big of a job to work out everything that can go wrong. You'll make it work in the end, just make sure you show us how how you do it...
ypzilon
Active member
Awesome thread!
It's also very interesting to see how houses and garage are being built in other parts of the world.
For instance, here in Sweden it's almost standard with 12" of insulation beneath the concrete floor, and it's not recommended to put floor heating with less than 10" of insulation (I've got 12" under my house and 8" under my garage).
With high prices on electricity and oil, geothermal heating is very popular and is probably together with heat recovery systems the two most common heating systems in new houses over here.
(Hope you understand my english) =)
It's also very interesting to see how houses and garage are being built in other parts of the world.
For instance, here in Sweden it's almost standard with 12" of insulation beneath the concrete floor, and it's not recommended to put floor heating with less than 10" of insulation (I've got 12" under my house and 8" under my garage).
With high prices on electricity and oil, geothermal heating is very popular and is probably together with heat recovery systems the two most common heating systems in new houses over here.
(Hope you understand my english) =)
Mr onetwo
Well-known member
Hey man, that was a lot of rain!
Why dodn't you get your plumber to get an 1 1/4" steel well point and drive it into the bottom of your pit.Then hook up a good mud sucker to it and pull out the water. Here is a link to how to do this.I would leave the pipe installed under a cleanout cover in case you ever have water problems in the future. Take care
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/DD0951.html
Why dodn't you get your plumber to get an 1 1/4" steel well point and drive it into the bottom of your pit.Then hook up a good mud sucker to it and pull out the water. Here is a link to how to do this.I would leave the pipe installed under a cleanout cover in case you ever have water problems in the future. Take care http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/DD0951.htmlburleymike
Well-known member
+1 on the well point, it should work like a champ. You can buy them at the farm stores at least around here for about $50.00
Hey man, that was a lot of rain!
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Just thought I would post this up again as a reminder since you are progressing along so well.
54earl
Well-known member
Subscribed since it took me 10 minuets to re find.
vr4joe
Well-known member
Quick question on the model.
Why is the chimney located in such an awkward area? You've design a wonderful roof top area, but instead the chimney is encroaching on such a lovely defined open space. I really hope the roof about the garage is accessible space as well.
Why is the chimney located in such an awkward area? You've design a wonderful roof top area, but instead the chimney is encroaching on such a lovely defined open space. I really hope the roof about the garage is accessible space as well.
I'm no concrete expert but I could only image the expansion problems that could arise with all that water trapped in between the loose aggregate come winter time which could potentially crush the unit which it surrounds if the ground is frozen and the expansion has no where to go. It could also induce some nasty compressive forces on the underside of any concrete that is poured above it potentially causing some nasty cracks. Assuming that there will always be moisture under the over-poured concrete it will evaporate then condense on the underside of the concrete surface which, again I am no expert by any sense of the word, might have surface irregularities and porosity which would allow the moisture to penetrate into the slab and cause the internal reinforcements to corrode...
Am I thinking correctly or completely talking out of my ****...???
Am I thinking correctly or completely talking out of my ****...???
plewlandsbob
Well-known member
Considering that the OP, has his own concrete business and is very much a hands on kinda guy, I think he is an expert and knows what he is doing!
Last edited:
CoconutPete
Well-known member
Agree with this ..... also the fact that he is building right ON the water, and his project has been soaked by water for several full days since he started ......... I'm sure water has probably crossed everybody's mind once or twice
cgall
Well-known member
Looks to me like the chimney is situated to allow the fireplace to be used indoors or out on the patio.
It's clearly obvious that he knows what he is doing and that he is an expert in his field but sometimes you are thrown a curve-ball which catches you off guard. I'm sure the design team didn't sit down and create a matrix of all the possible events that could occur during the build process and have action plans in place for every unforeseen problem that arises. Before anyone takes offense I was just thinking out loud. I guess next time I keep my questions and thoughts to myself...
Regards.
Perhaps read the thread?
Ground water management and runoff was extensively covered in the early pages due to significant volumes that became apparent during the construction.
"I'm sure the design team didn't sit down and create a matrix of all the possible events that could occur during the build process and have action plans in place for every unforeseen problem that arises."
I wouldn't bet against it. I have no doubt it is properly handled for the long haul.
Welcome aboard!
Ground water management and runoff was extensively covered in the early pages due to significant volumes that became apparent during the construction.
"I'm sure the design team didn't sit down and create a matrix of all the possible events that could occur during the build process and have action plans in place for every unforeseen problem that arises."
I wouldn't bet against it. I have no doubt it is properly handled for the long haul.
Welcome aboard!
Last edited:
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
Dude, really? LL has VERY extensive run off control in place, but this is a different problem that he himself said was not thought of ahead of time. So the input from the forums is likely useful, joint discussion... UNEEKONE's comments were not out of line at all...Perhaps read the thread?
Ground water management and runoff was extensively covered in the early pages due to significant volumes that became apparent during the construction.
"I'm sure the design team didn't sit down and create a matrix of all the possible events that could occur during the build process and have action plans in place for every unforeseen problem that arises."
I wouldn't bet against it. I have no doubt it is properly handled for the long haul.
Welcome aboard!
Not to clutter the thread discussing things we quite agree on, but I was pointing out that exactly as you note, ground water management was thoroughly covered in significant detail.
As to the hoist pit standing water, there have been several possible solutions posted and I for one, am greatly looking forward to see how it gets resolved.
UNEEKONE, please excuse any offense I may have inadvertently allowed into my earlier posting.
SiGMa-X- I appreciate the reminder that is always likely, someone will interpret a post differently than intended.
As to the hoist pit standing water, there have been several possible solutions posted and I for one, am greatly looking forward to see how it gets resolved.
UNEEKONE, please excuse any offense I may have inadvertently allowed into my earlier posting.
SiGMa-X- I appreciate the reminder that is always likely, someone will interpret a post differently than intended.
Well I hate to do it but I'm going to post an update without pics - my damn camera had dead batteries and I didn't have any on hand. I got a few with my cell phone but I can't get them posted from here.
Looks like people are curious about the water situation in the lift pit so I want to let you know where I'm at.
At first I wasn't all that concerned - the lift is made for direct burial and if I didn't have a pit, the lift would have been into the water table anyway. Still the thought of leaving all that trapped water didn't sit well so I figured I'd make an effort to remove it.
I hauled home a 185 cfm diesel powered compressor, a pneumatic fence post driver and a 1 1/2" centrifugal pump. I used the fence post driver to drive a piece on 1" black pipe. A couple fittings connected the pump to the pipe and we were off to the races.
My first effort involved removing the guts from a foot valve and screwing it on to the end of the pipe. I figured the screen might keep the rocks and sand out but it clogged up pretty quickly. I abandoned the foot valve for a series of drilled holes in the side of the pipe.
In the end, I got the vast majority of the water out and feel like I can move on. I'll leave the pipe in place just in case.
In other developments, we got all the rigid down for the remainder of the house and garage as well as the radiant tubing. Once I finish up the vapor barrier in the pit, we'll get the rebar in.
I've lost my crew completely to paying work and my finishing superintendent says he can't get to me till next week. For now I'm on my own so progress will slow a bit.
Sorry about the lack of pictures, I'll get some up tomorrow morning.
Looks like people are curious about the water situation in the lift pit so I want to let you know where I'm at.
At first I wasn't all that concerned - the lift is made for direct burial and if I didn't have a pit, the lift would have been into the water table anyway. Still the thought of leaving all that trapped water didn't sit well so I figured I'd make an effort to remove it.
I hauled home a 185 cfm diesel powered compressor, a pneumatic fence post driver and a 1 1/2" centrifugal pump. I used the fence post driver to drive a piece on 1" black pipe. A couple fittings connected the pump to the pipe and we were off to the races.
My first effort involved removing the guts from a foot valve and screwing it on to the end of the pipe. I figured the screen might keep the rocks and sand out but it clogged up pretty quickly. I abandoned the foot valve for a series of drilled holes in the side of the pipe.
In the end, I got the vast majority of the water out and feel like I can move on. I'll leave the pipe in place just in case.
In other developments, we got all the rigid down for the remainder of the house and garage as well as the radiant tubing. Once I finish up the vapor barrier in the pit, we'll get the rebar in.
I've lost my crew completely to paying work and my finishing superintendent says he can't get to me till next week. For now I'm on my own so progress will slow a bit.
Sorry about the lack of pictures, I'll get some up tomorrow morning.
Ody, I am planning on placing some lights under the lift. I got the idea from GJ - might even have been from you. Seems like a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion.
Your English is fine. Now I have insulation envy. 12", really? That's amazing. Makes my measly 2" seem inadequate. I think it was Mr OneTwo that suggested 3". I was going to do it but completely spaced it.
The chimney is located more for function than form although its location has grown on us. As was mentioned, it serves a wood burning exterior fireplace in the covered terrace and a gas fireplace in the living room. It will be constructed of architectural concrete and I think it will be a nice detail when we're done. All the roofs are accessible
Finally, Thanks to all for the great discussion and ideas on my water problem. You guys definitely helped shape the plan and motivate me to tackle the problem.
Bib Overalls
Well-known member
So, your Finishing Superintendent tells the Boss (you) that you are on your own for a week. I've heard of "insubordination" but this situation requires a new descriptor; "superior-subordination." Sort of like the Army. You have the company commander, who is in charge, and the first sergeant who knows what is really going on.
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
@Bib - I think its due to paying jobs vs boss paying jobs?
@LL - Great solution to the water in pit problem! I'm lookin forward to pics when the come, I know they will eventually!
@LL - Great solution to the water in pit problem! I'm lookin forward to pics when the come, I know they will eventually!
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Difference is
Boss getting paid for work done
or
Boss paying out for work done.
Boss getting paid for work done
or
Boss paying out for work done.
As promised I've got the photos I took of the lift pit dewatering operation. They were taken on my cell so the quality isn't great but hopefully you can follow along.
Here's a photo of the pnuematic fence post driver. I don't own one so I had to rent this one
Working by myself it was a job and a half to get the driver onto the pipe and into position - the thing weighs a ton.
In case you're wondering, I'll be securing the loose radiant tubing to the rebar mat once it is installed.
Once I started the air, it only took a few seconds to sink the pipe.
The connected to 1" pipe directly to the 1 1/2" pump. The pump doesn't weigh much so I just let the pipe support it.
It actually took longer to collect all the parts and pieces than it did to do the installation and pump down the water.
As I said, I'll leave the pipe in place this time in case we get more rain though the forecast is dry right through next week so I should get the slab placed before it gets a chance to fill up again.
Here's a photo of the pnuematic fence post driver. I don't own one so I had to rent this one
Working by myself it was a job and a half to get the driver onto the pipe and into position - the thing weighs a ton.
In case you're wondering, I'll be securing the loose radiant tubing to the rebar mat once it is installed.
Once I started the air, it only took a few seconds to sink the pipe.
The connected to 1" pipe directly to the 1 1/2" pump. The pump doesn't weigh much so I just let the pipe support it.
It actually took longer to collect all the parts and pieces than it did to do the installation and pump down the water.
As I said, I'll leave the pipe in place this time in case we get more rain though the forecast is dry right through next week so I should get the slab placed before it gets a chance to fill up again.
Last edited:
99LeCouch
Well-known member
Nice solution!
RHD 4 LIFE
Well-known member
It's been a while since my last time on here and let me tell you how impressed myself and my wife are!
You sir are an outstanding construction artist, keep up the phenomenal posts and pic's!
Thanks,
John
You sir are an outstanding construction artist, keep up the phenomenal posts and pic's!
Thanks,
John
max2919
Well-known member
I'v gott 15.75" insulation under my new house in Sweden. That's the standerd+ here. The heating pex (150mm cc) underfloor and the concret Hiperfloor makes it lovely warm with very small energy use. I'v gott a total of 16meters windows that's from floor to roof, and it's still very low on energy use.
Go to,
http://www.husqvarna.com/int/construction/innovations/polished-concrete-floors-husqvarna-hiperfloor/
And,
www.supergrund.se
/Max
Go to,
http://www.husqvarna.com/int/construction/innovations/polished-concrete-floors-husqvarna-hiperfloor/
And,
www.supergrund.se
/Max
Last edited: