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ConCretin

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I am going to start building a 36X56 garage.. with 12-13 foot tall walls and had an idea of doing a tilt up type concrete panel.

I love the concept and am sure the technical issues could be resolved but it would be a very expensive build. The irony of the following statement notwithstanding, you could build your garage for a fraction of the cost using traditional methods. I wouldn't be surprised if the method you described doubled the cost or worse.

With that said, you could certainly construct a tilt up panel that incorporates insulation. You'll have to engineer picking points in the panels as well as connections to your foundation and between the panels. You'll need heavy duty braces and anchor points to hold the panels upright until the roof structure is in place, which will have to be engineered to work with the wall panels. Then you'll need a crane big enough to pull and set the panels......... See where I'm going with this?

You can use any siding material in a rain screen configuration but I am assuming you are referring to the cement boards like I used. Two things to consider are that they are expensive ($250 sheet) and heavy (you'll need something more than metal furring to support them)


Good stuff, temps in the single digits tonight and a Noreaster comin to Maine. Good luck! Just came across the thread, whats going in the garage?

The garage is primarily going to be used for working on hot rods. I've got a couple projects waiting patiently for me to finish.

The weather has definitely become an issue. Bitterly cold tomorrow and a major snow storm predicted for Friday. It appears we'll be delayed again. Sorry guys.
 
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BeachBoy

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I have registered in 2010 without ever posting. Basically it was to follow a project similar to yours (concrete, modern) but in a much more weather-friendly area.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71002

I did not follow any other build threads as I'm not quite ready to plan the garage.

Now your project got me back on GJ and I spent a day reading all the pages. Awesome project! And even more awesome journal for us to follow, thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions and put details.

I did not read what brand ICF you'll be using? Here Nudura seems to be the most popular.

I ah on lake Champlain in Northern Vermont and many people here build a garage with second floor living spaces for many years and eventually build their large cottage/retirement home.. But all these garages are not really pretty and they are even less pretty when paired to a house/cottage afterwards. Your garage and guesthouse got me really thinking that this could be a design that could allow me to build a nice looking place before I eventually build the cottage. And since we're in similar climates, I can use your build to find ideas for insulation and avoid traps.

Keep it up!
 

J-man67

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Delaware
Wow! That is where this thread leaves me...Pure amazement. Took me a bit to wrap my head around the idea/build, but as I come to this point of the thread, I feel I could build my own concrete house haha. Seriously though, the time and effort you put into this thread only shows you (and your crew) put even MORE of that into the actual build. Your pictures, descriptions, and informative techniques have all come together and I now see your vision. I can only imagine what its like to actually live this! I have rafted down the Kennebeck and since then, I dream of living in Maine, in that very area. Its perfect, breath-taking to be more precise. I am originally from MA, so I wasn't far away. Anyway, I look forward to our next rafting trip, not only for family-fun, but to see this baby standing!!! Not sure if we will actually raft by your home, but you can bet the house (pun intended) that I will be looking for it!! I'll salute that flag on your dock and give you a "GOOD JOB" shout from the raft. Good luck going forward and keep up the great and impressive work!!
 
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BeachBoy

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Have you chosen to do the basement in concrete (with wood forms) and add insulation because of your background/equipment and experience? Or you thought it would be faster/cheaper than using ICF?

It looks like it was labor and material intensive to build and unbuild all these forms, where ICF has already the form and the insulation, just have to add rebar and then pour.
 

BeachBoy

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Maybe you missed it. He's doing the WHOLE HOUSE in concrete.:thumbup:

No that part I got.. ICF is the forms are in "foam" and you pit rebar and pour inside and leave the forms that makes the insulation.

In his case, to date, he builds wood forms and ties the rebar manually, then pours then removes forms and then installs insulation. Many more steps and equipment.

That's why I'm asking.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 
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ConCretin

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The place is going to be awesome for sure. I wonder what the yearly property tax is going to be. Are you going to keep it or sell when its done?

While I can barely afford to keep it, I sure as hell can't afford to sell it.

Your wife has the patience my friend, we can sit back and whip you from afar...

Very true. Though I wonder what the limits of her patience will prove to be.

I have registered in 2010 without ever posting. Basically it was to follow a project similar to yours (concrete, modern) but in a much more weather-friendly area.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71002

I did not read what brand ICF you'll be using? Here Nudura seems to be the most popular.

Andy's home is fantastic. I'm afraid I'll come up short if that is the standard.

I'm using ARXX ICFs. To be honest they are all about the same but a local supplier carries the brand and is giving me a good price.


Not sure if we will actually raft by your home, but you can bet the house (pun intended) that I will be looking for it!! I'll salute that flag on your dock and give you a "GOOD JOB" shout from the raft. Good luck going forward and keep up the great and impressive work!!

Thanks for all the kind comments J-man. Unfortunately you won't actually raft by the place (unless there really is something to this global warming thing) but you'll have to drive by to get to your rafting trip. Feel free to stop in.

Have you chosen to do the basement in concrete (with wood forms) and add insulation because of your background/equipment and experience? Or you thought it would be faster/cheaper than using ICF?

Maybe you missed it. He's doing the WHOLE HOUSE in concrete.:thumbup:

No that part I got.. ICF is the forms are in "foam" and you pit rebar and pour inside and leave the forms that makes the insulation.

You are both right. I decided to do the 'foundation' using traditional cast in place concrete because it is stronger, cheaper and the additional insulation provided by the ICF isn't necessary since it's mostly backfilled.

The above-grade exterior walls are a combination of ICFs (concrete inside insulation) and Thermomass (insulation inside concrete). There are also a number of interior architectural concrete walls that do not need to be insulated.

The ICF walls have a better R value and are primarily on the north face of the building. The architectural concrete walls are mostly south facing so we'll get some solar benefit. The ICF walls obviously get sheet rocked while the architectural walls are by definition, exposed. It's a concrete house so ya gotta have concrete walls, right?

I just hope they come out nice since I'll have to look at them for the rest of my life. It would kinda **** showing people through the concrete house if the concrete looks like hell.

To those of you patiently waiting for me to stop typing and actually build something, we're all set to shovel ourselves out from Nemo (what a stupid name) and get to work Monday morning. Thanks for your continued patience.
 
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Jagmandave

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I think it's a valid question, but didn't he say he was picking up the ICF's in his post?

I like the idea of building a house from ICFs, and went far enough that I spent about $8K with an architect designing a home built completely with them, but then the economy turned, the wife suffered thru breast cancer, and I got old and had to retire.

It was a pretty simple design, but cool, and it had a 1200 sq ft shop built in downstairs!

oh well, maybe if she hits the lotto some day......:sad:

Edit: Oops, he was answering as I typed.....
 

davo727

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I know that you are the man as far as concrete goes so I wondered if you have fiber in the concrete or not on your house? If using plenty of rebar then no fiber needed?

Thanks, Im going to be doing a 50x80 slab 6 inch thick this spring with a lot of 5/8 rebar, 4000psi mix and I like overkill so wondered about fiber?

Thanks, Dave
 

NUTTSGT

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To those of you patiently waiting for me to stop typing and actually build something, we're all set to shovel ourselves out from Nemo (what a stupid name) and get to work Monday morning. Thanks for your continued patience. [/B]


Glad to hear that even with the snowfall predicted that you plan on pushing forward Monday. :beer:
 
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ConCretin

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For those of you on the East coast of the US digging out from Nemo, I thought I'd take you back to a more pleasant time;

DSCN1334.jpg


Because this is our current reality.

7d2a6cfd-0303-4736-a5f2-a8ead936806a_zpsfcd78a48.jpg


Remember when we were placing slabs without a care in the world about the weather?

DSCN1182_zpse908008b.jpg


Wouldn't be quite so simple now.

b88d4518-1950-45f6-8e06-6d7c14bc1270_zpsf81ddf2a.jpg


Despite the recent weather, we're plowed out and are ready to get back to work tomorrow. We've been hauling materials back to the site though we still have a lot more to go.

7c85d43b-cf7a-4309-acf5-098455714106_zpsd39642ad.jpg


I was re-reading the thread and realized I never followed up on which kind of ties we're going to use for the architectural concrete following our mock up. If you recall we were considering coil ties, which you've seen us use on the foundation or the fiberglass rods.

The rods are designed to blend in and not be seen while the coil ties will remain visible as little round 'dimples', which will require us to arrange the form panels symmetrically so the tie patterns is uniform and centered.

Here's what the rods look like after you cut them off.

DSCN1260_zps10c64f25.jpg


They are pretty noticeable if you are up close but you don't really see them from a distance.

DSCN1261_zpsbf410feb.jpg


Even so we've decided to stick with the coil ties. We are shooting for as perfect a surface as possible and I think the fiberglass would be visible especially on the interior where you'll be standing pretty close and lighting will be good. Plus I guess I just like the honesty of seeing the tie holes. We're not trying to make the concrete look like something else - just trying to elevate it to a finished product.

Finally, a couple of you have asked how much time and material we've got into the job. As we enter phase 2, I thought this would be a good time to see where we're at. Here's the tally so far;


  • 5,500 manhours
  • 1,700 cy of sand, stone & gravel
  • 455 cy of concrete
  • 13.5 tns of rebar

We've got an additional 250 cy of concrete and 12 tns of rebar to go. We'll put up about 800 ICF blocks and about 6,000 sf of LiteDeck. I haven't added up the tonnage for the structural steel but there is a '**** ton' of it to quote a previous poster. The goal is to have the structure complete by the end of April.

I should be back with pics of actual work starting tomorrow night.

So as we enter the final push to get this thing done, let my once again thank all of you for your interest and encouragement. This journey just wouldn't be the same without you.
 
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J-man67

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Delaware
Quite the storm. My family back home got hit hard in Boston and Hingham. We got nothing down here in DE. Thought we would get a touch, but just rain. Oh well. Looking forward to seeing more.

Sent from my SGH-I747
 

gooned

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B.C.
No. It is not a permanent structure. It is pulled out of the water during the winter season.

Sent from my SGH-I747

I love how so many of us are plugged into this build the answers are coming from all-round!

All that white shite gotta be a bother for you LL, this build is gonna really get some legs to be all up by May :rocker:
 
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ConCretin

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Well this wasn't the start I was looking for. It started out with 4" of snow then turned to a cold drenching rain. We spent several hours shoveling the 2' of snow that Nemo left us then worked on our temp enclosures for as long as we could stand it.

DSCN1262_zpsf2ef4b92.jpg


We're going to build heated 'tents' for the architectural concrete walls. To do it right we need controlled conditions. The ICF's are more forgiving so we'll do that work in the open.

Since I have so little to report I'd thought I'd throw this up so you guys can follow along.

7a4272f6-75d1-4add-b362-86bfb0f34814_zps5e29cddf.jpg


This is the the plan for the main floor of the house. The green walls are architectural concrete and the blue walls are ICF. All the spaces in between on the perimeter are filled with glass.

We'll be starting on the two concrete walls to the far left and then move the forms to the next set of walls that you can see that are almost identical (just need to add a door block-out). The third pour will be the 'scriggly' wall and the little standalone wall at the top right. The final placement will be the wall in the garage. Once the AC gets started, we'll work the ICFs from left to right.

I've scheduled 4 weeks for this work before structural steel arrives.

The good news is that we appear to be heading into a stretch of decent weather and I still expect to place concrete by the end of the week.
 
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ConCretin

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Looks to me like you had better wait for better weather.

I wish I could Simon. I'm on the clock for my construction loan and I've got crew available, which with any luck won't be the case in the spring.

It's definitely a challenge to do concrete work under winter conditions but we're accustomed to it. In some ways I'd rather deal with the mud while it's still frozen.
 
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BeachBoy

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There is a guesthouse by the garage, hope well see these plans too!!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
 
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ConCretin

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I see a "principal bedroom," a "principal bathroom," and two half baths. Where do your guests sleep? The dungeon?

Given the allocation of space, it looks like you like to party. We are up for that!

Nice job. Thanks. Even working with my crappy pic, you made it legible.

The second story of the garage is a guest room with an adjoining bath. The second floor of the house could be oriented for two additional bedrooms and has yet another bath although we don't plan on using them as such.

There are pocket doors that close between the two half baths separating the private and public parts of the home.

There's just the two of us and we designed the house accordingly. I can assure you that parties were the furthest thing from our minds. :lol:

If it weren't for the distances involved a GJ get together party would be one of the first.
 
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Bib Overalls

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You can open a free Flickr account and upload your photos (200 max) and then link your photos using the provided "cut and paste" code in the image's "share" mode. The picture will appear in your thread in the size that you select.

Because this image was so large, I used a direct link.

I enlarged and sharpened the plan using the free Pic Monkey photo editing service before I loaded the image from my computer to Flickr.

Pic Monkey is particularly useful when you have a dark image that needs more exposure. The results are not perfect but you can usually pull a good image out of shadows. http://www.picmonkey.com
 
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HOTFR8

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I wish I could Simon. I'm on the clock for my construction loan and I've got crew available, which with any luck won't be the case in the spring.

It's definitely a challenge to do concrete work under winter conditions but we're accustomed to it. In some ways I'd rather deal with the mud while it's still frozen.


Well I will just say the snow in that situation would be a challenge to me as I have never been in that position to deal with.
 

rturbo 930

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I'll second Bib Overalls suggestion to use flickr. Another option is http://imgur.com - you don't need an account to upload. imgur is pretty simple to use and I don't believe it has resolution restrictions.

Photobucket used to allow you to set what size your uploads would be resized to, but I can't find the setting. They might have gotten rid of it.
 

Thedoc14

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luandry in master bedroom, different. Almost appt style of living, but if just the 2 of you it makes perfect sense.
Love the snow pictures, did it get deep enough to cover your rebar boxes?
 

red

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LL, on my first house we put in a skylight in the master. It was awesome! Except for the fact, during the summer the room was too bright to sleep in. Within a month, I built sliders out of 1/4 plywood and foam ceiling tile to cover the skylight.

Would never do that again. Put your skylight in the bathroom, where you always need more light and you can close the door for those days you would like to sleep late. As to the laundry, best thing we ever did was put in on the same level as the bedrooms. (Just have to find a front load washer that doesn't sound like it was built by NASA) Why carry clothes thru the house?
 
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BeachBoy

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Another image hosting option is imageshack.us its free you register and you can resize and get forum links directly.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
 
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ConCretin

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Thanks for all the suggestions for posting images of my plans. I think my primary challenge is converting PDFs to IMGs so I can put them up. I could probably get by with Photobucket, which I'm currently using if I could manage the conversion.

LL, on my first house we put in a skylight in the master. It was awesome! Except for the fact, during the summer the room was too bright to sleep in. Within a month, I built sliders out of 1/4 plywood and foam ceiling tile to cover the skylight.

Thanks for the information, red. We've got the same problem with all the floor to ceiling windows. I'm hoping whatever we come up with for the windows can be applied to the skylight as well. Maybe you can send me the plans for those sliders you built. :beer:
 

NUTTSGT

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Well this wasn't the start I was looking for. It started out with 4" of snow then turned to a cold drenching rain. We spent several hours shoveling the 2' of snow that Nemo left us then worked on our temp enclosures for as long as we could stand it.

DSCN1262_zpsf2ef4b92.jpg

BRRRRRR ! mad props to you and your crew for working in that ****. There are times when we get stuck working in crappy weather with ****** conditions but luckily, it's not 8 hours everyday.

Hats off you you guys. ;)
 

Kevin54

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Another image hosting option is imageshack.us its free you register and you can resize and get forum links directly.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

I use imageshack.us to host a lot of my pics. I think I have 11 or 12 pages of pics on there and have only used .38 out of the 5 gigs you get for free. And I've never had a problem with photos not showing up on a site due to Imageshack being down or too much bandwidth being used.
 

SiGmA_X

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I agree with Joe, but I won't be coming cross country... Broke student and all! Maybe in 2015 when I'm out there for my sisters graduation ;)
 
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ConCretin

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You would be surprised how many people would travel great distances to see this place when it's finished....

I agree with Joe, but I won't be coming cross country... Broke student and all! Maybe in 2015 when I'm out there for my sisters graduation ;)

I hope you'll take me at my word when I say that anybody who happens to be in the area and would like to stop by is more than welcome - although I might suggest a nice warm August day
 

calereeves

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Eagle River, Alaska
I took about a week reading this thread start to finish at work. I'm subscribing so I don't miss another update...can't wait until you get better weather and the pics start flowing again!

Outstanding design and construction!
 

Nick DL

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Souderton, Pa.
Wow, what an incredible home that you are building. I am really looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Question, where do you store the dock & gangway in the winter?
 
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ConCretin

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Well after a couple fits and starts we're officially back to work. If you recall, we were still fighting the weather on Monday but yesterday we were able to build this.

DSCN1287_zps77d32698.jpg


The enclosure is more to protect the concrete then the crew but the guys appreciate it as well. It was pretty nice out today but that's not likely to last. We built the enclosure with pipe staging and reinforced poly stretched over lumber frames, which will facilitate moving it to the next location. We'll heat it with a couple 200,000 btu propane kettle heaters.

DSCN1294_zps2b7b1e65.jpg


Today we got started on some formwork. You've seen this formwork system before on the mock up we did back at the shop. Here it is in place.

DSCN1291_zps6ba5c9fb.jpg


The formwork consists of 4x8 panels with an 18" extension on the top to get us enough form to place the 9'1" walls. I took great pains to design the formwork so that the panels' seams and tie pattern are uniform and symmetrical. Kind of like tiling a floor.

After caulking the plywood edges, we used pipe clamps to pull the panels together as tightly as possible before installing angle irons across the seams to hold the panels as flush as possible. The caulk will make the formwork waterproof to prevent sand streaking and provide a uniform surface.

DSCN1284-1_zps856546ee.jpg


Once the panels were aligned, we added a double 2x6 horizontal waler to hold the top of the wall straight. We used Tapcon screws to affix the bottom of the form to chalk lines we laid out the concrete slab.

DSCN1286-1_zps7feadc7d.jpg


This wall is over the LiteDeck that covers the basement where the radiant tubing is only an inch or so down. All those photos I took sure came in handy.

Here's a shot of the final surface with the coil ties installed.

DSCN1288-1_zpsb79f9428.jpg


This is a portion of the concrete that is an exterior wall of the home where the Thermomass will go (if you refer to the plan in post 1018, you can see it towards the top of the walls to the left of the drawing).

DSCN1289_zpsc00502aa.jpg


The Thermomass follows the rigid insulation that separates the slab from the foundation wall. We'll drill & epoxy some bars into the foundation to anchor it down and resist overturning.

By the way, if anyone is curious about the two opposing U shaped walls. The wall to the left creates a duct/pipe chase that runs from the basement to the roof. The one on the right encloses a 70" linear gas fireplace

One final detail to share. Remember the threaded rods we welded to the tops of the beams before we placed the LiteDeck slab over the basement? This is why we did that. These concrete wall sit on steel beams, not footings so we need something to keep them from falling over. The threaded rods, nuts and washers will keep the walls securely attached to the structure.

DSCN1285_zpsbf3572b6.jpg


You can also see the foam tape we stuck down to the concrete to seal the plywood form to the slab - watertight right?

Pretty good progress for a couple cold February days. Still hoping to get these first two walls placed this week to take advantage of the weekend for curing time so I can pull the panels Monday and do it all over again.

The next sequence should go a little quicker because we'll use a crane of some sort to move an entire form side as a unit.

It's fantastic to be back at it!
 
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