You never want a mad stripper.
Good to see you pouring again.
Good to see you pouring again.
The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
Motown 454
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,359
Very Nice. I feel you pain abut winter concrete pours.
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
Wow that turned out really nice! I wasn't sure what to expect but I think I'm pretty impressed. I apologize in advance if I missed it - but what are you going to finish the AC walls with? Some sort of clear sealant? Keep up the great work LL, and thanks for the pictures!
You never want a mad stripper.
The wall came out looking great, congrats.
cderalow
Well-known member
FYI on lutron controls:
The main head unit of a 'Graphic eye' system requires a deep standard width 4-gang box.
The supplemental scene control units fit in standard depth single gang boxes, though it is recommended to go with deep single gang boxes.
let me know if you want any info on Lutron graphic eye systems, I've troubleshot and programmed about 20 of them in the last 2 years through work.
One of these days I'll get one in my house.
The main head unit of a 'Graphic eye' system requires a deep standard width 4-gang box.
The supplemental scene control units fit in standard depth single gang boxes, though it is recommended to go with deep single gang boxes.
let me know if you want any info on Lutron graphic eye systems, I've troubleshot and programmed about 20 of them in the last 2 years through work.
One of these days I'll get one in my house.
kamlung
Well-known member
i just spent the last few hours catching up on this thread and i am still trying to lift my jaw off the floor...
to the OP - i am very happy that you are able to follow through on your dream home... i hope that the beer entry fee is indeed true because i would make an effort to stop by on one of my road trips this summer... i'll even bring the wide angle lens for a few pics...
keep on truckin!!!
to the OP - i am very happy that you are able to follow through on your dream home... i hope that the beer entry fee is indeed true because i would make an effort to stop by on one of my road trips this summer... i'll even bring the wide angle lens for a few pics...
keep on truckin!!!
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Congratulations on the results of your home's first AC pour!
I wonder if the release agent you used is temperature sensitive or has a time element involved which might affect entrapped air release/rise?
When your crew ******* about the cold weather, just smile and tell them they could be working in Spring mud up to their keisters! lol
P.S. - Scott looks like he's in love with that wall's finish; glad you didn't frame the pic 'below the waist'! lol
I wonder if the release agent you used is temperature sensitive or has a time element involved which might affect entrapped air release/rise?
When your crew ******* about the cold weather, just smile and tell them they could be working in Spring mud up to their keisters! lol
P.S. - Scott looks like he's in love with that wall's finish; glad you didn't frame the pic 'below the waist'! lol
As you can see, we're making progress on the next AC wall placement. You'll note that we've changed our approach to winter protection. Building the forms inside a tent was difficult so we decided to brave the elements long enough the get all the big pieces moved into position before we build the enclosure.
Something else you may note is how the MDO plywood changes color after it is poured against.
This is the U shaped wall that contains the linear gas fireplace. This installation presents yet another challenge in that gas fireplaces are typically installed in a rough opening and then covered over with some sort of tile or stone.
Since our finished surface is concrete, this wouldn't work. Our fireplace will be installed from behind the concrete wall into a carefully constructed opening. We'll then close of the U with some sort of removable screen to hide the back of the fireplace yet provide access. You can see the beginnings of a very specific rebar layout in the picture above that will hopefully hold all the pieces together. If it sounds complicated, it's only because it is. Whose freakin idea was this anyway?
Here are some of the block-outs that will create to opening for the 'window' of the fireplace to show through and create a recess for the body of the fireplace to fit. The concrete wall narrows to a 3" thickness around the fireplace so you don't look thru a 'tunnel' to see the flame.
Here is the formwork for the other wall, which is really two separate piers that create an opening into the pantry area.
Those of you who are very observant may notice that the wall that encloses the fire place is taller than the pantry wall. This is because the ceiling height in the living room area where the fireplace resides is 10'8" while the rest of the house is 9'-0".
Something else you may note is how the MDO plywood changes color after it is poured against.
This is the U shaped wall that contains the linear gas fireplace. This installation presents yet another challenge in that gas fireplaces are typically installed in a rough opening and then covered over with some sort of tile or stone.
Since our finished surface is concrete, this wouldn't work. Our fireplace will be installed from behind the concrete wall into a carefully constructed opening. We'll then close of the U with some sort of removable screen to hide the back of the fireplace yet provide access. You can see the beginnings of a very specific rebar layout in the picture above that will hopefully hold all the pieces together. If it sounds complicated, it's only because it is. Whose freakin idea was this anyway?
Here are some of the block-outs that will create to opening for the 'window' of the fireplace to show through and create a recess for the body of the fireplace to fit. The concrete wall narrows to a 3" thickness around the fireplace so you don't look thru a 'tunnel' to see the flame.
Here is the formwork for the other wall, which is really two separate piers that create an opening into the pantry area.
Those of you who are very observant may notice that the wall that encloses the fire place is taller than the pantry wall. This is because the ceiling height in the living room area where the fireplace resides is 10'8" while the rest of the house is 9'-0".
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el Pedro
Well-known member
I'm loving seeing all the work that goes into the formwork. It's almost a shame that it all gets pulled down. Which makes me wonder, and it's probably a stupid question, but what happens to all the formwork once your done with it? Can it be used for other jobs or do you have to factor it in with the build cost?
Man, I would lost trying to figure out where to put these forms.
Thanks for all the encouraging comments everyone!
There's really no need to do anything to the concrete. We'll fill the tie holes to about 1/4" of the surface and do a little cosmetic clean up but that's about it. Once the color evens out, the walls will look great.
Thank you for the information cedarlow. It's probably not the smartest approach but we're placing concrete before the final lighting design is done and I just hope it doesn't bite me in the @ss. I did use the deep boxes and the locations are for scene control. Keep me out of trouble if you can.
This project will require five placements using the form panels we built. They are realistically good for 5-10x that number though the surface finish will decline with use. We'll definitely hang on to them and I'm sure we'll find a way to put them to work. Unfortunately for me, the first job generally absorbs the cost. Oh well, at the end of the day its all coming from the same place.
There's really no need to do anything to the concrete. We'll fill the tie holes to about 1/4" of the surface and do a little cosmetic clean up but that's about it. Once the color evens out, the walls will look great.
Thank you for the information cedarlow. It's probably not the smartest approach but we're placing concrete before the final lighting design is done and I just hope it doesn't bite me in the @ss. I did use the deep boxes and the locations are for scene control. Keep me out of trouble if you can.
This project will require five placements using the form panels we built. They are realistically good for 5-10x that number though the surface finish will decline with use. We'll definitely hang on to them and I'm sure we'll find a way to put them to work. Unfortunately for me, the first job generally absorbs the cost. Oh well, at the end of the day its all coming from the same place.
Modern Jess
Well-known member
red
Well-known member
Understatement of the year!
+1 . . . . Maybe the decade
kamlung
Well-known member
cderalow
Well-known member
Just remember, where ever you want the main control panels to be, there's got to be at least 1 4-gang deep box. another thing to remember, Lutron graphic eye units are limited to 64 electronic ballasts, but you can have multiple eye units in the same system
samuli
New member
Hi
Great and unique build. Went trough all 55 pages (not really, just looked the pics and still it took good hour). Maine seems to have similar weather than we have here in Finland, 3'-6' snow.
Dont know have you covered this all ready, but how will it be heated?
Cheers
Samuli
Great and unique build. Went trough all 55 pages (not really, just looked the pics and still it took good hour). Maine seems to have similar weather than we have here in Finland, 3'-6' snow.
Dont know have you covered this all ready, but how will it be heated?
Cheers
Samuli
Oh the joys of winter concrete. As soon as we had one side of the formwork in place, we moved our tents.
The guys felt working outside long enough to get most of the big pieces moved was worth not having to fight them through the tent like we did the first time. We need the tents up before we close the forms to do all the caulking and finish work.
Here's a shot of the reinforcing for two piers. You might notice the column reinforcing on the far right. Anytime we have a bearing plate for the structural steel in a CIP or ICF wall, we need additional reinforcing under it. It's typically 4, #5 bars with #3 stirrups at 12" OC.
We used one continuous out side form panel because it was easier than building two separate forms and ensures both piers are aligned and the tie/form pattern is maintained.
I'm going over today to get all the electrical in and set the block-outs for the fireplace and TV recess. We'll close everything up on Monday and place again Tuesday.
Look what showed up today;
It's the rest of the structural steel. My fabricator did a fantastic job and got it out to me sooner than expected. We're not scheduled to start erecting until the week after next and we're running a couple days behind schedule. Still, it's good to have it when we need it.
For those who missed it earlier, all our floors and roofs are a combination of steel, styrofoam and concrete. Due to a lack of space on site (and the inability to get a 40' trailer down my road), we're staging materials a my shop and moving them down to the site on smaller trucks as we need them.
When I looked at this massive load of structural steel and thought ahead to the two 40' trailers of LiteDeck coming next week and realized it was all for my house, I had one of those 'what the hell am I doing?!' moments. Luckily it passed and I didn't go screaming into the night.
The guys felt working outside long enough to get most of the big pieces moved was worth not having to fight them through the tent like we did the first time. We need the tents up before we close the forms to do all the caulking and finish work.
Here's a shot of the reinforcing for two piers. You might notice the column reinforcing on the far right. Anytime we have a bearing plate for the structural steel in a CIP or ICF wall, we need additional reinforcing under it. It's typically 4, #5 bars with #3 stirrups at 12" OC.
We used one continuous out side form panel because it was easier than building two separate forms and ensures both piers are aligned and the tie/form pattern is maintained.
I'm going over today to get all the electrical in and set the block-outs for the fireplace and TV recess. We'll close everything up on Monday and place again Tuesday.
Look what showed up today;
It's the rest of the structural steel. My fabricator did a fantastic job and got it out to me sooner than expected. We're not scheduled to start erecting until the week after next and we're running a couple days behind schedule. Still, it's good to have it when we need it.
For those who missed it earlier, all our floors and roofs are a combination of steel, styrofoam and concrete. Due to a lack of space on site (and the inability to get a 40' trailer down my road), we're staging materials a my shop and moving them down to the site on smaller trucks as we need them.
When I looked at this massive load of structural steel and thought ahead to the two 40' trailers of LiteDeck coming next week and realized it was all for my house, I had one of those 'what the hell am I doing?!' moments. Luckily it passed and I didn't go screaming into the night.
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Thanks again. Great information.
Thank you Samuli. I really enjoy seeing how people in your part of the world build as well.
The house will be heated via hydronic radiant in the concrete floors. The hot water will come from geothermal heat pumps and be supplemented in spring, summer and fall with hot and cool air from the same source.
When I looked at this massive load of structural steel and thought ahead to the two 40' trailers of LiteDeck coming next week and realized it was all for my house, I had one of those 'what the hell am I doing?!' moments. Luckily it passed and I didn't go screaming into the night.
I believe most houses don't use that much steel.
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Seeing all that steel laying there, it made me think once again that this thread should be renamed to -
Awesome, just simply AWESOME!
'The FORT Kennebec Build'
Awesome, just simply AWESOME!
hobbitss
Well-known member
First noticed this thread before anything was started and moved on... Big Mistake... Happened to click back on it to see what was happening to find out I had missed an EPIC Build...
Managed to read through the past year's worth of posts this week... Reminded me of my time in commercial construction from about 35 years ago, Just no Concrete Buggies... Back then there were no power screeds, concrete pumps or conveyors just lots of wheel barrows, buggies, buckets and men to move them...
Managed to read through the past year's worth of posts this week... Reminded me of my time in commercial construction from about 35 years ago, Just no Concrete Buggies... Back then there were no power screeds, concrete pumps or conveyors just lots of wheel barrows, buggies, buckets and men to move them...
Turns out this whole concrete house thing is complicated. This formwork will create the window through which you'll see the gas fireplace and the recess where the television will reside. It will be covered with dielectric glass so it appears to be a mirror when it isn't turned on.
I decided to bolt the block outs to the formwork to ensure nothing moves. The threaded rod extensions will secure a second form you can see sitting in front. The second from creates a recess for the body of the fireplace to sit closer to the face of the wall. I need to caulk the first piece before I bolt on the second section.
One of the challenges with forming AC concrete is trying to avoid end grain from showing. Sometimes a simple miter solves the problem
I've got another full day ahead of me tomorrow buttoning up some remaining details so the crew can close the forms Monday. I can't say I mind giving up the weekends - this is kinda fun.
I decided to bolt the block outs to the formwork to ensure nothing moves. The threaded rod extensions will secure a second form you can see sitting in front. The second from creates a recess for the body of the fireplace to sit closer to the face of the wall. I need to caulk the first piece before I bolt on the second section.
One of the challenges with forming AC concrete is trying to avoid end grain from showing. Sometimes a simple miter solves the problem
I've got another full day ahead of me tomorrow buttoning up some remaining details so the crew can close the forms Monday. I can't say I mind giving up the weekends - this is kinda fun.
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Bib Overalls
Well-known member
The Kremlin - Today
Office of the President of the Russian Federation - Vidimir Putin.
Boris X, Chief of the most secret Russian Inteligence Agency; "Mr Presidient, Our satilites have discoverd a massive military structure of some sort being built near a lake in a remote section of the American state of Maine. They are using mind bogling quantities of concrete and steel. We have seen nothing like this since the Titan missle silos built during the height of the cold war. There seems to be some urgency because they are working day and night in Siberian weather conditions. Out analysts think it is some sort of anti-satillite laiser weapons installation. You must call the American President on the Red Line immediately. This must be stopped."
Vadimer; "Relax Boris, I know all about it. It is my net buddy LLWillysfan's new dacha. I have a short cut icon on my PC to the "Concrete Underground" thread on the Garage Journal. Here, take a look at the model. What do you think?"
Boris "Yes indeed. It looks like something Frank Lloyd Wright would have designed."
Vadimer "I had the same thought at first but as the project progressed I started thinking Ludwig Miles van der Rohe. It will be stunning."
Boris "Of course, of course. Sir, could you please email the link to this Garage Journal thread? It is so long, over a thousand individual posts. I must give it more of my attention"
Vadimer "No problem. And one more thing Boris. Do you think one of our agents in America could get me a good deal on some Lista Cabinets and a two post lift?
Office of the President of the Russian Federation - Vidimir Putin.
Boris X, Chief of the most secret Russian Inteligence Agency; "Mr Presidient, Our satilites have discoverd a massive military structure of some sort being built near a lake in a remote section of the American state of Maine. They are using mind bogling quantities of concrete and steel. We have seen nothing like this since the Titan missle silos built during the height of the cold war. There seems to be some urgency because they are working day and night in Siberian weather conditions. Out analysts think it is some sort of anti-satillite laiser weapons installation. You must call the American President on the Red Line immediately. This must be stopped."
Vadimer; "Relax Boris, I know all about it. It is my net buddy LLWillysfan's new dacha. I have a short cut icon on my PC to the "Concrete Underground" thread on the Garage Journal. Here, take a look at the model. What do you think?"
Boris "Yes indeed. It looks like something Frank Lloyd Wright would have designed."
Vadimer "I had the same thought at first but as the project progressed I started thinking Ludwig Miles van der Rohe. It will be stunning."
Boris "Of course, of course. Sir, could you please email the link to this Garage Journal thread? It is so long, over a thousand individual posts. I must give it more of my attention"
Vadimer "No problem. And one more thing Boris. Do you think one of our agents in America could get me a good deal on some Lista Cabinets and a two post lift?
HOTFR8
Banned
Nice one Bibs. Very clever. samuli
New member
Are you going to use windows with 3 glasses? It's common practise here to lower heat losses and keep heating costs down.
When I saw the steel laying there my first thought was to rename the thread, "What The $%#@ Is This Guy Thinkin?"
Reminded me of my time in commercial construction from about 35 years ago, Just no Concrete Buggies... Back then there were no power screeds, concrete pumps or conveyors just lots of wheel barrows, buggies, buckets and men to move them...
Thanks hobbitss. Don't be surprised if those concrete buggies show up at some point - we still use them.
Bibbs, With one post you increased the entertainment value of this thread 2x. That was the funniest thing I've read in a long time - the wife and I are still chuckling. As HOTFR8 said, very clever! Thanks!
Don't forget to post these plans now that you can convert PDF and host the images
I will Beachboy (and send you the plans I promised and forgot about until this moment
.) The glazing is double paned low e glass in thermally broken frames. It's about the best you can do but it's not the most efficient way to build for sure.
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Chucktown
Well-known member
Well that puts it all in perspective. I assume this is for the house also. I had one steel beam put in my garage (at the price of $1900...FML) and I must have taken 100 pics of it. God I love steel.
This thread always cheers me up. Thanks, LLWillysfan!
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
WOW that is a lot of steel. This thread never fails to deliver, LL!
there is a Titan Missile Silo that is going up for sale this spring.. The one in Alburgh, VT
http://www.alburghvt.org/PDF/up/missilebasewarning.pdf
a guy actually modified one intoa dwelling... http://www.siloboy.com/site/Pages/myHomePage0.html
I'd be a bit worried about the lack of flexibility. You're always restricted to a certain size of TV.
Fascinating build by the way. I love seeing everything made in reverse with the forms and trying to work out what it's going to be.
KPSquared
Well-known member
With that recess for the tv, where are all the cables going? Is there some conduit hidden somewhere?
Playwme
Well-known member
After a hard day of fishing from his private dock , wrenching in his concrete garage, and hiking through his private forest, the size of the tv that he falls asleep in front of is a moot point.
Oggy
Well-known member
I was thinking the exact same thing, and it's going to have to be bigger than usual to fit an HDMI cable.
I bet he's got it figured out though. I'm certain this will likely not be the only room in which there's a television too, so I'm sure if he decides to get a bigger tv in the future there'll be other options for it.
rsa
Well-known member
Uniformly selecting Low-E might not be the best choice. Triple pane might be worth another look. The guys at greenbuildingadvisor.com are all over this. Here are three of the short columns I have bookmarked. The comments are often as useful as the columns:
High-Solar-Gain Glazing: Cold-climate glazing is surprisingly hard to find
Choosing Triple-Glazed Windows: Balancing U-factor and solar heat gain
All About Glazing Options
JakeKohl
Well-known member
...
To be honest, we've never used these before and I'm not sure what to expect. Even after we vibrated internally, there was a significant amount of air bubbling to the surface when we ran the external units. Hopefully this translates into a smooth surface.
...
As a (possibly) interesting side note, we use these type of vibrators in the conveyor and packaging machinery industry. In some case, we use them to vibrate vertical guide rails to prevent round bottles from shingling and locking in the lanes as we try to reduce the width of the lanes to reduce them eventually to a single row of bottles.
The dry goods industry also uses them mounted underneath a sheet of steel to convey powders and grains....but you need to have the ******** mounted in the correct orientation or your stuff flows backwards!
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
WhooHoo!!!!
I'm caught up and wore out. I've been reading for the last two hours.
All I can say is I get a case of the nervous shits hearing a concrete truck roll up when I have to pour a sidewalk. I can't imagine all of that concrete, plus the rebar, plus laying out the walls, plus laying out the electric, plus having to lay the electric out in reverse by running the conduit and boxes, plus reverse forms for television, plus for the fireplace. 
If that was my place and I had it done, I could just hear it now while I was sitting outside. Buddies would be coming over asking "what are you doing outside? It's dark in the house Turn on the lights Can't...no light switches. Why not? Forgot to put them in. Well let's go in an get a beer Can't Why not? Forgot to run electricity for the fridge. Well can I use the bathroom? Can't Why not? I forgot to run the sewer pipe. I'm going home.
I'm caught up and wore out. I've been reading for the last two hours.All I can say is
I get a case of the nervous shits hearing a concrete truck roll up when I have to pour a sidewalk. I can't imagine all of that concrete, plus the rebar, plus laying out the walls, plus laying out the electric, plus having to lay the electric out in reverse by running the conduit and boxes, plus reverse forms for television, plus for the fireplace. If that was my place and I had it done, I could just hear it now while I was sitting outside. Buddies would be coming over asking "what are you doing outside? It's dark in the house Turn on the lights Can't...no light switches. Why not? Forgot to put them in. Well let's go in an get a beer Can't Why not? Forgot to run electricity for the fridge. Well can I use the bathroom? Can't Why not? I forgot to run the sewer pipe. I'm going home.
mrob12
Member
Good point, Playwme. In any case, the hardware gets bigger, but the software stays the same or degrades.