The Concrete Underground

[ConCretin]

Well, we're plodding along toward our next AC placement. We spent a good bit of time digging out from a weekend snowstorm yesterday and are preparing for more snow tomorrow. C'mooon spring.

Getting ready to close the Prep Kitchen wall;

Here's some more detail of the U shaped wall that houses the gas fireplace. We incorporated some reinforcing to create a beam or header over the opening.

I'm installing keyways for the cantilevered mantle and hearth that we'll place later. We'll use conduit to create sleeves for some high strength threaded rod anchors that I'll post-tension after concrete sets to pull the hearth and mantle hard against the concrete wall.

You can see the keyway for the mantle behind the rebar in the previous picture. Here's the keyway for the hearth, which will bear on the bottom of the concrete opening in between.

The AC wall is only 3 thick in front of the fireplace necessitating some tie modifications. I want to see a typical cone hole from the front so we cut a tie down and installed a piece of PVC to allow us to remove the continuous coil rod.

We also got started on the ICF walls - barely

These are a couple of our window bucks that will form our rough openings. The Advantech plywood frames will stay in place and be secured to the concrete within the ICFs via 1/2 dia anchor bolts - the bracing is designed to be removable.

These bucks also act as the bottom form of the perimeter concrete beam in the LiteDeck roof slab above.

If we get any kind of decent weather we'll get a concrete placement in before the weekend.

 

[neonnblack]

I'm assuming, even if he, in the future, decides a bigger TV is necessary, he could just put in on a mount that will stick out more, and it can just cover the hole completely.

I'm loving this build so much.

 

[ConCretin]

That TV recess looks awfully small. If the fireplace is about 70" wide, what size TV are you planning?

I'd be a bit worried about the lack of flexibility. You're always restricted to a certain size of TV.

We sized the recess for a 55" TV. We have one now and it seems more than adequate but I figure I could always hang one over the recess if I felt the need for a larger one.

With that recess for the tv, where are all the cables going? Is there some conduit hidden somewhere?

I was thinking the exact same thing, and it's going to have to be bigger than usual to fit an HDMI cable.

I bet he's got it figured out though. I'm certain this will likely not be the only room in which there's a television too, so I'm sure if he decides to get a bigger tv in the future there'll be other options for it.

There is a 2" conduit that runs from behind the U shaped wall to a closet that will house all the AV equipment. There will be two, 2" sleeves to get cables to the back of the TV.

Uniformly selecting Low-E might not be the best choice. Triple pane might be worth another look.

Thanks for the information. I spoke like I knew what I was talking about but the reality is, we haven't really made any final decisions on glass yet and I have a lot to learn before we do. I'll definitely check out the links.

As a (possibly) interesting side note, we use these type of vibrators in the conveyor and packaging machinery industry.

The dry goods industry also uses them mounted underneath a sheet of steel to convey powders and grains....but you need to have the ******** mounted in the correct orientation or your stuff flows backwards!

At 150 lbs a cubic foot, it'll take a lot more than a backwards ******** to make concrete flow uphill.

If that was my place and I had it done, I could just hear it now while I was sitting outside. Buddies would be coming over asking "what are you doing outside? It's dark in the house Turn on the lights Can't...no light switches. Why not? Forgot to put them in.

Thanks Kev. Light switches are for babies - I'll just rub the wires together when I need lights. It's the beer fridge I'm worried about.


Cheers everybody. I appreciate the comments and encouragement. This winter concrete thing is a pain.

 

[shopnut]

It's great to see you back doing your thing LLWillysfan. Good luck dealing with whatever Mother Nature tosses at ya. She can be brutal sometimes!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'm waiting on more close up pictures of the ICFs

Other than that

 

[red]

LL, have you determined your window sizing yet? If you use standard sizes, you will save yourself a boat load of money. Pricing escalates geometrically when going custom.

 

[PrimeIsFine]

What's the advantage of using Advantech over a normal plywood or OSB? I've seen it in the box stores, but haven't actually seen anyone use it. Their website touts that it is stronger, more water resistant, etc, but I wasn't sure how much backing that claim had.

And x2 on the close-ups of the ICFs. I LOVE this project.

 

[allinon72]

Never understood how much carpentry goes into concrete forming.

 

[BeachBoy]

Pricing escalates geometrically when going custom.

so, what does like a circular increase look like?

 

[SiGmA_X]

so, what does like a circular increase look like?

Price^∞?

 

[Matthewjb]

We sized the recess for a 55" TV. We have one now and it seems more than adequate but I figure I could always hang one over the recess if I felt the need for a larger one.

It's hard to tell scale from the pictures. Yeah 55" sounds 'adequate' to me.

 

[S4PLAY]

Just read this whole post for the first time. Holy S**T. Just awesome. I would really hate to be the guy paying for it though. You sir are very brave. I'm gonna go curl in the fetal position now due to overwhelming information. For that I thank you.

Cant wait to see more.

 

[ConCretin]

We're almost ready to close the form for the fireplace wall. If you've been following along, you know that there is a ton of detail in this thing. We're basically doing our finish carpentry in concrete.

The plastic chair you see will come out before we close the form

The prep kitchen wall is all closed up and ready to place;

Here's an overall view to help you keep everything straight. You can see the ICFs going up on the far right.

I've just got two guys working on ICFs to get the procedure worked out. Once the initial set up is done, some of the other guys will jump in and it will come together quickly.

Here's the first of the window bucks in place. This one is for a floor to ceiling awning window in the dressing room.

We're installing 1/2" anchor bolts 2-3' apart to hold the bucks in place. As I mentioned in the last update, the internal bracing is removable from the inside.

We countersunk the nuts and washers on the inside so they don't interfere with the windows or finishes. As you can see, the final wall thickness will be over 14".

One of the details that's kind of a pain are the integral rebar columns that are required wherever a steel beam will bear. The bars and stirrups need to go in first then we have to lift the ICFs over the bars and snake the horizontal bars through them. We need to remove some of the internal plastic webs to clear the bars so we'll need to add a tie to maintain the integrity of the block.

The 8" concrete core is reinforced with #4 verts at 12" centers and two #4s at each horizontal seam, which occur every 16".

I'll post up more details of the ICFs as we go along.

Another 8" of snow expected tonight but I'm still hoping for an AC placement Friday. The first ICF placement will be early next week or we might grab a bigger chunk later in the week. Still working toward structural steel the week after next.

 

[Riley]

I love following this thread!

One quick question, for all the steel work going in I'm pretty sure you are not bending it all by hand. What type of bending machine is used to get the tight radius bends?

Thanks!

 

[ConCretin]

LL, have you determined your window sizing yet? If you use standard sizes, you will save yourself a boat load of money. Pricing escalates geometrically when going custom.

I'm afraid all the windows are custom i.e. damn expensive. In addition to the expense, I've got to get the structure done before we can field measure. It will take at least a couple months to get windows from that point. Damn architects.

What's the advantage of using Advantech over a normal plywood or OSB?

PT lumber is typically used but due to the width of the walls, dimensional lumber wasn't ideal, plus I was didn't want the bucks to warp. The reason I went with Advantech was it's stability and moisture resistance. I'll still get it covered up as soon as I can.

One quick question, for all the steel work going in I'm pretty sure you are not bending it all by hand. What type of bending machine is used to get the tight radius bends?

It's actually cheaper to buy the bars cut and bent than it is to buy stock lengths but someone (me) has to go through and figure out all the dimensions and quantities. Then you have to do a drawing so the guys know which bars go where.

The other consideration is that sometimes you can cut and bend a bar quicker than you can find it in a huge stack.

In the end, I ordered all of the typical bent bars (such as stirrups) and the straight bars longer then 8'. We'll cut all the shorter bars and field bend the odds and ends.

Larry is pretty good with the manual bender and is responsible for a lot of what you'll see.

I'm waiting on more close up pictures of the ICFs

You'll get em, Nutts. Probably more than you can stand if history is any indication.

 

[csp]

One of the details that's kind of a pain are the integral rebar columns that are required wherever a steel beam will bear. The bars and stirrups need to go in first. We need to lift the ICFs over the bars and then snake the horizontal bars through them.

That would be a pain. Glad I didn't have to do that with mine.

The 8" concrete core is reinforced with #4 verts at 12" centers and two #4s at each horizontal seam, which occur every 16".

The engineer that did my steel design originally wanted #5 every 8" horizontally and 12" centers vertically. I went back to him and said that there was no way in hell I was paying for that much steel for a residential build, where the norm is #4 every 18" horizontal and #4 on the verticals as well. Apparently he usually did commercial builds.

 

[Motown 454]

This build is amazing. Too bad the weather won't give you a brake.

 

[gooned]

You'll get em, Nutts. Probably more than you can stand if history is any indication.

Keep 'em coming

 

[Buzz Lightyear]

Still awesome - still subscribed.

 

[Holedgr]

LLWillysFan..

Is there a remote chance you would discuss your recipe for both the AC and the ICF walls?? I am so curious to know whats in Maine (standard) and what YOU have chosen to use per your experience. If not, I understand. Thanks.

-Tony

 

[ConCretin]

Tony, I'd be happy to share any information you would like regarding our construction methods. By 'recipe', are you referring to the concrete mix design?

 

[NUTTSGT]

We countersunk the nuts and washers on the inside so they don't interfere with the windows or finishes. As you can see, the final wall thickness will be over 14".

I was wondering about anchor bolts not affecting the windows. Countersinking them didn't occur to me while reading. If I was doing it first hand, it'd probably be a no brainer.

You'll get em, Nutts. Probably more than you can stand if history is any indication.

Bah ! Post away my freind.

 

[BeachBoy]

I didn't know about putting columns to support beams. You put one at each end of the beam? I guess that's for the very large window openings.

And are you bucks going to stay there to attach the windows? I think you mentioned it but I'm not sure. There are so many ways to install windows into ICF.

 

[kyle@hcb]

Such a neat build!

 

[Holedgr]

Tony, I'd be happy to share any information you would like regarding our construction methods. By 'recipe', are you referring to the concrete mix design?

I am indeed, Sir. Type of stone....p.s.i of mix...Plasticizer....hell anything you'd care to share is greatly appreciated!

-T

 

[kamlung]

There is a 2" conduit that runs from behind the U shaped wall to a closet that will house all the AV equipment. There will be two, 2" sleeves to get cables to the back of the TV.

you will be fine with that... worse case, you can run an HDMI/IR extender kit from the back of the TV to media closet... all that is needed is one CAT5 cable which is only 1/4" thick...

LL - thanks again for all the updates... this thread is my weekly entertainment...

 

[TypeREX]

LL,

I feel emotionally attached to this build. It is exactly the type of house I dream of, in every single way. I can only hope to find someone with your vision and attention to detail when my time comes. Thank you for taking the time to meticulously document this project.

You make me want to be a better homeowner.

 

[CoconutPete]

Love this thread. Thanks for the update.

 

[ConCretin]

The last major detail before we could place concrete was to build a header to turn the back of the U wall into a 'box' above 8'. The structure is U shaped to provide access to install the gas fireplace but turns back into a chimney before it passes thru the porch roof.

The guys finished that up in time to place concrete after lunch. Although this looks like a continuous 12' long wall, it is really two individual piers.

Meanwhile in the back corner, the ICF work continues;

We set the window buck for awning window in the Principal Bedroom and filled in the space with ICF.

Here is the cast in place wall that forms a vertical pier that continues up thru the second floor you can see on the model. I couldn't use ICFs because it would be too wide. It's entirely outside the structure so the insulation isn't needed anyway. The ICF wall will cross behind it and be poured at the same time

Here's a shot from the top of the dock stairs to hopefully help with the perspective

Meanwhile back in our ever growing staging area, the LiteDeck arrived; In addition you can see the rest of the ICFs in the background and start of our rebar lay down area on the side.

All in all, not a bad week considering the weather. We'll place the ICF and last of the AC in the house next week. After that, one crew will erect steel and start LiteDeck in the house while another crew moves on the AC in the garage and the third group keeps going on ICF.

 

[1949 caddyman]

What size stone is in the concrete mix? Do you have to worry about too much vibration causing it to settle to the bottom?

 

[jriltex]

LLWillysFan, is there a roster somewhere to sign up to be adopted? ;-) I really enjoy watching the progress of your build and feel cheated on days when no updates are present. Good luck with the weather! And thanks for taking the time to detail the progress. We all learn something with every post.

 

[HOTFR8]

Looks like Cold Progress.

 

[ConCretin]

I didn't know about putting columns to support beams. You put one at each end of the beam? I guess that's for the very large window openings.

And are you bucks going to stay there to attach the windows? I think you mentioned it but I'm not sure. There are so many ways to install windows into ICF.

BeachBoy, the rebar under the steel beam is mostly a seismic requirement. We're not in a particularly active zone but since we have heavy suspended floors and roofs, my engineer wanted extra lateral stability.

The bucks do stay in place to provide an attachment point for the windows as well as interior and exterior finishes.

I am indeed, Sir. Type of stone....p.s.i of mix...Plasticizer....hell anything you'd care to share is greatly appreciated!

For the the first AC placement, we used a fairly standard 3/4" 4000 psi mix with a midrange water reducer, which gave us a 5-6" slump. Todays's placement was a bit more demanding due to all the nooks and crannies so we used a 3/8" 5000 psi mix with a high range water reducer (super plasticizer), which gave us an 8" slump.

The water reducers keep the water content low to minimize bleed water and sand streaking while keeping the concrete flowable to minimize air pockets. Using a smaller aggregate makes the concrete flow better in confined spaces as does the higher cement content. Smaller aggregate does tend to increase shrinkage and the chance of cracking, but given our small sections, it's not as high a concern as good consolidation.

I considered using self consolidating concrete (SCC) but I didn't design the forms for 11' of liquid head pressure and decided not to take the risk.

It's definitely a balancing act and we'll probably perfect the process just about the time we're done.

LL, I feel emotionally attached to this build. It is exactly the type of house I dream of, in every single way. I can only hope to find someone with your vision and attention to detail when my time comes.

Thanks TypeREX. I'm honored that you'd like to follow a similar path.

When the time comes to build your dream, please feel free to reach out if I can be of assistance. I'd be happy to try and talk you out of it.

What size stone is in the concrete mix? Do you have to worry about too much vibration causing it to settle to the bottom?

You make a good point caddyman, segregation of aggregate is always a concern. We've used 3/4 and 3/8 mixes and have relied primarily on external vibrators, which I think might minimize the problem.

I really enjoy watching the progress of your build and feel cheated on days when no updates are present.

Thanks for the kind words jrltex. I feel oddly guilty when I don't have something to post every day. I love the fact that folks are enjoying the build as much as I am.

Looks like Cold Progress.

It's not as bad as it looks HotFR8. It's finally March and for us, that means spring is on it's way. Going forward, we should have high temps above freezing more often then not. Of course that does raise the prospect of mud season.......

 

[HOTFR8]

We have just started Autumn here.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

With all the materials getting delivered, are you sure this really isn't a 'commercial build'? lol

Boy, vibrate the forms too much - you get segregation; vibrate too little - you get entrapped air 'blemishes'. How the heck do you sleep the night before a pour? It's amazing you can type to make these great posts; you're probably chewing your fingernails to the quick!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Here's a shot from the top of the dock stairs to hopefully help with the perspective

Great picture from this perspective, it shows how much concrete work has already been done.

 

[gooned]

I'm wondering if you always use the same batch plant for supply?

I just had my floor placed and due to dropping temps and some very heavy rainfall (even though it's under a roof) my finisher was out there from 7 am to 12:30 pm!
He did comment that his usual mix would have gone-off sooner, so I was curious how detailed a spec you order, are there variables beyond slump, mpa, stone size

Keep up the amazing progress

 

[ConCretin]

With all the materials getting delivered, are you sure this really isn't a 'commercial build'? lol

Boy, vibrate the forms too much - you get segregation; vibrate too little - you get entrapped air 'blemishes'. How the heck do you sleep the night before a pour? It's amazing you can type to make these great posts; you're probably chewing your fingernails to the quick!

Residential, commercial, industrial........I got no idea what the heck to call it. With regard to sleeping at night, I tell the guys everyday, all we can do is the best we know how. At the end of the day, it's just concrete and will never be perfect.

Great picture from this perspective, it shows how much concrete work has already been done.

Thanks, Nutts

I'm wondering if you always use the same batch plant for supply?

I just had my floor placed and due to dropping temps and some very heavy rainfall (even though it's under a roof) my finisher was out there from 7 am to 12:30 pm!
He did comment that his usual mix would have gone-off sooner, so I was curious how detailed a spec you order, are there variables beyond slump, mpa, stone size :

My supplier from last year closed his local plant for economic reasons so I have a new supplier this year. I'm not using any special mix designs - just varying the strength (cement content), aggregate size, water reducers and air entrainment depending on the application.

The most likely reason for differing set times among suppliers is the amount of fly ash or slag they use in their standard mixes. These products often replace as much as 50% of the cement in the concrete. They can actually improve certain characteristics of the concrete but they do slow down initial set times and strength gain. The more they use, the slower the set.

 

[BeachBoy]

A little concrete garage inspiration:

 

[Arcticfox]

Just spent the better part of the day reading every post in this thread.... WOW what a project!! And what an education!