The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
I dropped by the site yesterday to check the heaters and snapped a couple pics I thought might be interesting - more for perspective than anything else. After the placement Friday, we expanded the tent to encompass the last two AC walls in the main house;
If you are trying to follow along, refer to the plan on page 51, post 1018. The walls we are placing next are the little standalone wall and the S shaped wall in the top right corner.
I haven't posted an 'evil lair' shot in a while so here's a winter view. You can start to get a sense of the height. We still have another 10' to go above the top of the formed pier.
We keep looking at this thing and it seems HUGE. The house itself is about 3,250 sf. I realize that's not small but damn, it looks bigger than that.
If you are trying to follow along, refer to the plan on page 51, post 1018. The walls we are placing next are the little standalone wall and the S shaped wall in the top right corner.
I haven't posted an 'evil lair' shot in a while so here's a winter view. You can start to get a sense of the height. We still have another 10' to go above the top of the formed pier.
We keep looking at this thing and it seems HUGE. The house itself is about 3,250 sf. I realize that's not small but damn, it looks bigger than that.
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Another great picture. I hope you are planning on making some 8x10s at different stages of the build to put on display somewhere, house, garage or office.
Another wet spring day in Maine. It rained all day but we managed to get the retaining wall closed;
We'll finish this up tomorrow and get started on re-forming the wall we reduced to rubble yesterday. Also plan to start stripping the dock stairs tomorrow afternoon.
While we start this project we are also completing preparations to put our current home on the market. Part of this process includes moving all my junk out of my garage.
As I mentioned in my intro, I've already built a garage on the new property. It's 32x28 and is a pretty typical wood framed structure. This will be the temporary home for my shop tools and unfinished projects.
Since I'm limited (by wifely edict) how big a shop I can attach to the house, this structure is a kind of garage annex to handle overflow from the main shop. To make it easier to move tools, parts, etc between structures, both will be equipped with an overhead bridge crane.
I've already installed beams running the length of the upper garage.
A third beam, riding on trolleys will run end to end to allow me access to all parts of the garage. I'll install a similar setup in the lower garage. I figure this essentiall gives me a 28 x 60 garage connected by 2000 feet of road.
One of my challenges was finding a door that didn't block access to the overhead crane when open. I settled on a hangar door.
As you can see, it opens up and outward, which maintains the full opening and won't block access to the bridge crane. In hindsight, it was probably way overkill but it does fit the bill.
I spent the better part of the morning hauling junk like you see in the picture above from the old garage to the interim garage. The car below is pretty much bare metal and given the inclement weather I wrapped it up to protect it from the worst of the precip.
By noon, both of my projects were safe and sound in their new temporary home.
Tomorrow I plan to haul down all the shop tools and equipment. Once done with the move, I'll be out of commission until the new shop is done. Talk about motivation.
I know this is way late, but both of these features I will put in my build. Why did you go with the hangar door vs. conventional commercial roll up? Is the hanger door much more expensive? Like all the others, your project is amazing!
Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
This has been bugging me for a while but I've finally figured out where I've seen this exact design before and it's just dawned on me
More modern materials but the design is almost identical. Did you buy a copy of the plans from Druid & Partners architects practice?
Keep those updates coming
More modern materials but the design is almost identical. Did you buy a copy of the plans from Druid & Partners architects practice?
Keep those updates coming
The idea behind the hangar door was that it wouldn't block access to the bridge crane when open. I want to be able to back a pickup into the building and access the bed. I'd obviously have to back in much further with a regular OH door and since the building will no doubt be full of junk, this wouldn't work.
It was significantly more money - probably double the cost. In addition, you have to manually unlatch it before opening and thus won't work with a remote. Definitely some trade offs but seems to fit my needs.
Buzz, I actually had to edit my post after I went looking for druid and partners on the web. In the future, I'll have a cup of coffee before reading your posts.
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Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
I really ought to Google "made up" company names before I post them as it could save a lot of confusion.
Druid&Partners.com
cderalow
Well-known member
Druid&Partners.com
It's probably safe to assume said website is ****
Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
KPSquared
Well-known member
I was a little slow on the uptake too. . . I got it now. Ha ha. . .
I spent the weekend agonizing about what we'd find when we pull the forms on my fireplace wall. We started the day by stripping the other wall.
As with anything, we're getting better at it as we go along. The finish on this wall is noticeably improved over our first placement. The trick is to get the forms absolutely waterproof. When you run the external vibrators, it shakes the water right out of the concrete.
We did a few things differently on this round of walls. We used foam tape on the plywood seams and caulked the hell out of everything. I still think there's room for improvement.
After seeing this wall, I felt a little more confident. The fireplace wall is more intricate but we placed it first when the super was giving us a higher slump than these walls. Unfortunately, we don't need those panels until last so there's no rush to pull them. I guess my angst will continue a bit longer.
Meanwhile the crew performed a quick cleaning and repair of each panel before resetting them.
We also had to install ledgers for the S shaped wall since the forms do not sit directly on the slab. in addition, this gives us a chance to square everything up since the foundations aren't quite as true as we are trying to get the AC to be.
Across the site, work on the ICF plugs along. Here we're laying out the first course on the front on the Principal Bedroom.
This how the CIP wall ties into the ICF wall.
This picture shows how the two horizontal #4's fit into the webs, which occurs every 16" at each course. There are a number of accessories used in this ICF system. You can also see one of the 'claws' that are used to hold each block to the next.
There is also a 'hook' that holds two blocks together vertically and 'trusses' that fit tightly into the foam horizontally and hold the wall straight. I'll try to get some pics of these as well.
Finally, here's a pic of the braces I rented to help align the wall. It is attached to the ICF with screws thru slotted holes into the plastic 'nailing' strips built into the ICFs. They have a built in bracket to support planks for a pour platform.
Well that's it for now. Maybe tomorrow, the guys will take pity on me and pull the panels on the fireplace wall.
As with anything, we're getting better at it as we go along. The finish on this wall is noticeably improved over our first placement. The trick is to get the forms absolutely waterproof. When you run the external vibrators, it shakes the water right out of the concrete.
We did a few things differently on this round of walls. We used foam tape on the plywood seams and caulked the hell out of everything. I still think there's room for improvement.
After seeing this wall, I felt a little more confident. The fireplace wall is more intricate but we placed it first when the super was giving us a higher slump than these walls. Unfortunately, we don't need those panels until last so there's no rush to pull them. I guess my angst will continue a bit longer.
Meanwhile the crew performed a quick cleaning and repair of each panel before resetting them.
We also had to install ledgers for the S shaped wall since the forms do not sit directly on the slab. in addition, this gives us a chance to square everything up since the foundations aren't quite as true as we are trying to get the AC to be.
Across the site, work on the ICF plugs along. Here we're laying out the first course on the front on the Principal Bedroom.
This how the CIP wall ties into the ICF wall.
This picture shows how the two horizontal #4's fit into the webs, which occurs every 16" at each course. There are a number of accessories used in this ICF system. You can also see one of the 'claws' that are used to hold each block to the next.
There is also a 'hook' that holds two blocks together vertically and 'trusses' that fit tightly into the foam horizontally and hold the wall straight. I'll try to get some pics of these as well.
Finally, here's a pic of the braces I rented to help align the wall. It is attached to the ICF with screws thru slotted holes into the plastic 'nailing' strips built into the ICFs. They have a built in bracket to support planks for a pour platform.
Well that's it for now. Maybe tomorrow, the guys will take pity on me and pull the panels on the fireplace wall.
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We are indeed. Belgrade is 45 minutes or so from us. It's beautiful out there.
Or doesn't exist
What the hell have I started here?
I was a little slow on the uptake too. . . I got it now. Ha ha. . .
Don't feel bad KP. Buzz had me running around the internet looking for some damn druid architect who stole my house plans.
Vernmotor
Well-known member
Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
I'll stick to compliments and leave the bad jokes to others in the future.
Looking good
Playwme
Well-known member
druidpartners.com
Web design and database management firm in Dartmouth MA. Technically they could be Computer Systems Architects.
Web design and database management firm in Dartmouth MA. Technically they could be Computer Systems Architects.
We're making progress towards our next AC placement. This is the little standalone wall, which we have one sided. Next comes rebar, ThermoMass, more rebar and then the closing form.
We've also got the S shaped wall one-sided and ready for rebar
This is a custom inside corner we built. Since we're trying to avoid exposed end grain on the plywood, we mitered the joint.
Meanwhile the ICF crew set the window buck for a couple transom windows in the back to back half baths.
One of the details to the ICF's is the use of fiberglass tape. It's used to hold things together in both directions and is surprisingly strong
We still haven't found time to strip the fireplace wall, which isn't doing my nervous breakdown any good.
We've also got the S shaped wall one-sided and ready for rebar
This is a custom inside corner we built. Since we're trying to avoid exposed end grain on the plywood, we mitered the joint.
Meanwhile the ICF crew set the window buck for a couple transom windows in the back to back half baths.
One of the details to the ICF's is the use of fiberglass tape. It's used to hold things together in both directions and is surprisingly strong
We still haven't found time to strip the fireplace wall, which isn't doing my nervous breakdown any good.
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ICFs. . . what is keeping the form in place from sliding around concrete pad ? Is the horizontal rebar that is tied to the vertical (already placed in the concrete) enough to keep the form in place ? Or will there be a 2x4 tapcon'd at the foot of the form to prevent movement ?
Nutts, we're installing blocks to align the outside face of the ICFs as shown here;
The braces will serve the same purpose on the inside. Once all the blocks are clipped and taped together, it makes for a fairly rigid structure that is pretty easy to hold in position.
Thanks, it seems that the ICFs are basically a simple and "almost" idiot proof.
Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
I don't have the patience to wait for the concrete to set. I'd be pouring it and taking the forms off within hours.
Coming along nicely now though
* Disclaimer - This post does not contain any bizarre English humour (humor)
Coming along nicely now though
* Disclaimer - This post does not contain any bizarre English humour (humor)
93fim5
Member
Just went through the entire thread, beautiful home!
We're still on track to place all the AC and ICF walls in the house structure on Friday. Let's start out with our progress on the ICF walls. As you can see, we've started on the walls at the back of the prep kitchen;
We've also made progress on the front corner. We finished the final 'pier' on the left and are making good progress on the T wall to the right. We're installing an 'end cap' at the end of each ICF run to act a nailer for the windows and the finishes that wrap the opening.
By the time we add a concrete roof, it's easy to see why my engineer predicted over 1/2" of deflection in the cantilever.
Here's a view of the inside. The rods you see coming thru the ICF on the left are ties that run down the Tee. We had to cut a section out of the ICFs - the ties will support the area where we removed the plastic webs
This is the back wall of the Prep Kitchen. The 3x5 steel post is one of two that support the LiteDeck roof. There is almost as much glass in the back wall as the front - we just filled in a few areas where we need cabinets and counters.
Here's a couple more details of the ICFs. The next picture shows the 'truss" sections that fit into the blocks tightly and help keep the wall straight. We are using trusses in every other course.
The next picture shows the 'hooks', which connect a block to the one beneath it. We use these between the top two and bottom two courses.
We're also making good progress on the AC walls. The ThermoMass is installed in the stand-alone wall. We drilled holes in the insulation to get the ties thru and then spray foamed the holes full to keep it in position. Next comes another mat of rebar and then we can close her up.
We also have ThermoMass going into the S shaped wall. I had to get a 2" conduit that supplies power to the porch areas by the insulation. Since there is only 4" of space that is partially filled with rebar, I decided to run the conduit in the same plane as the insulation.
We've got most of the rebar tied and are about ready to close. I've got a challenge for you guys - what has changed with this form since yesterday?
Every once in a while I start to say something like 'we're not building a piano here', then I see formwork like this and I start to wonder;
As I've mentioned, we're trying to avoid having plywood end grain show up, which is challenging when building complex shapes. Wait til you see what we're building in the shop to form the AC wall in the garage corridor. Sheesh.
We've also made progress on the front corner. We finished the final 'pier' on the left and are making good progress on the T wall to the right. We're installing an 'end cap' at the end of each ICF run to act a nailer for the windows and the finishes that wrap the opening.
By the time we add a concrete roof, it's easy to see why my engineer predicted over 1/2" of deflection in the cantilever.
Here's a view of the inside. The rods you see coming thru the ICF on the left are ties that run down the Tee. We had to cut a section out of the ICFs - the ties will support the area where we removed the plastic webs
This is the back wall of the Prep Kitchen. The 3x5 steel post is one of two that support the LiteDeck roof. There is almost as much glass in the back wall as the front - we just filled in a few areas where we need cabinets and counters.
Here's a couple more details of the ICFs. The next picture shows the 'truss" sections that fit into the blocks tightly and help keep the wall straight. We are using trusses in every other course.
The next picture shows the 'hooks', which connect a block to the one beneath it. We use these between the top two and bottom two courses.
We're also making good progress on the AC walls. The ThermoMass is installed in the stand-alone wall. We drilled holes in the insulation to get the ties thru and then spray foamed the holes full to keep it in position. Next comes another mat of rebar and then we can close her up.
We also have ThermoMass going into the S shaped wall. I had to get a 2" conduit that supplies power to the porch areas by the insulation. Since there is only 4" of space that is partially filled with rebar, I decided to run the conduit in the same plane as the insulation.
We've got most of the rebar tied and are about ready to close. I've got a challenge for you guys - what has changed with this form since yesterday?
Every once in a while I start to say something like 'we're not building a piano here', then I see formwork like this and I start to wonder;
As I've mentioned, we're trying to avoid having plywood end grain show up, which is challenging when building complex shapes. Wait til you see what we're building in the shop to form the AC wall in the garage corridor. Sheesh.
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Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
"I've got a challenge for you guys - what has changed with this form since yesterday? "
Okay, I'll play. This is like playing 'Where's Waldo?', but I guess in this case, it's be titled 'Where's Walldoh?'! lol
Flipping between the two pics, here's what I've come up with:
- Thermomass added
- Release agent has darkened
- Re-bar added
- Conduit added
- Vertical wood member has been added to the ledger on the right
- On the far right side of the pic, it looks like a form has been stripped (?)
Okay, I'll play. This is like playing 'Where's Waldo?', but I guess in this case, it's be titled 'Where's Walldoh?'! lol
Flipping between the two pics, here's what I've come up with:
- Thermomass added
- Release agent has darkened
- Re-bar added
- Conduit added
- Vertical wood member has been added to the ledger on the right
- On the far right side of the pic, it looks like a form has been stripped (?)
Winner, winner chicken dinner. I'm not sure whether I should be impressed with your powers of observation or wonder why you have so much time on your hands.
Actually, the change you so astutely observed didn't result from the release agent darkening - the guys actually swapped out a full piece of plywood from the middle of the form.
The plywood panel we originally put in had some minor de lamination. I was prepared to live with it but the guys insisted on replacing it. This wall is the first concrete people will see when they arrive at the 'concrete house' and the boys want it to be perfect.
Ya really can't ask for more than that.
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I was going to add someone left a perfectly good portaband out in the rain too...
Great crew you have there, sign of a true craftsman pulling it apart if it ain't perfect
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
"Winner, winner chicken dinner. I'm not sure whether I should be impressed with your powers of observation or wonder why you have so much time on your hands."
LOL - I'd like to have a nice local Central Maine micro-brewery 'Black and Tan' with that chicken dinner from the A1 Diner (http://a1diner.com/); they do deliver, don't they???
As for my 'powers of observation', I cannot lay claim to that accolade. However, your challenge made me 'rise to the occasion', especially since I was not required to 'rise from the couch'! And yes, I do have too much time on my hands only because I've been too lazy to get my **** off said couch and get busy on the l-l-o-o-n-n-n-g-g To-Do list in my shop. I prefer to refer to my lassitude as a 'Four-year-long-hibernation'
; who knows, maybe I'll "Spring Ahead" this coming Sunday, finally turn off the computer, and get busy making my shop 'GJ Thread-worthy'. 
LOL - I'd like to have a nice local Central Maine micro-brewery 'Black and Tan' with that chicken dinner from the A1 Diner (http://a1diner.com/); they do deliver, don't they???
As for my 'powers of observation', I cannot lay claim to that accolade. However, your challenge made me 'rise to the occasion', especially since I was not required to 'rise from the couch'! And yes, I do have too much time on my hands only because I've been too lazy to get my **** off said couch and get busy on the l-l-o-o-n-n-n-g-g To-Do list in my shop. I prefer to refer to my lassitude as a 'Four-year-long-hibernation'
; who knows, maybe I'll "Spring Ahead" this coming Sunday, finally turn off the computer, and get busy making my shop 'GJ Thread-worthy'. red
Well-known member
who knows, maybe I'll "Spring Ahead" this coming Sunday, finally turn off the computer, and get busy making my shop 'GJ Thread-worthy'
Hurray! Pictures please?
Hurray! Pictures please?
I'd hoped to place some concrete today but 'discretion being the better part of valor' we put the placement off until tomorrow morning. The formwork for the S shaped wall is nearly complete;
As with anything, we've learned from experience and made some adjustments. We've had some corners open up and create a little sand streaking. It's safe to say, this form isn't going anywhere.
Here's a shot of the top of the S shaped wall showing the ThermoMass and some of the conduit we had to tuck in. This wall creates a nook for a little outside kitchen so we had to incorporate a fair bit of electrical.
We'll also be placing the ICFs tomorrow.
The ICFs are proving to be pretty versatile. We needed a little pilaster to support a 3x5 column so we carved out a little foam and added a plywood form. When we removed the foam we left the plastic web in place to act as a tie.
The T wall is coming along as well
Remember the fiberglass ties we considered using for the AC? Well they are coming in handy to keep the end caps in place.
We've installed our braces to help align the ICFs. The final step of every concrete placement is to plumb the corners and string line the top of the wall. The detailed drawings and measurements we took of the radiant tubing in the floor below came in handy when fastening the braces down - no red plastic shavings yet.
To establish grade we chalked a line, attached strapping to act as a guide and cut away the inside face of the ICFs. The outside face will give us a start on the edge form for the 11' Roof slab.
It's a bit tedious but it helps assure a level bearing surface for the LiteDeck panels.
We were about ready to call it a day when my patience failed me and I started removing forms from the fireplace wall. It wasn't long before the guys joined in and we had it stripped in no time.
Turns out my anxiety was for naught - it came out great. A little cosmetic clean up and we'll have a first class bit of concrete. Keep in mind, this is the raw product, once it bleaches out and we clean it up it the color will be much more uniform.
In case you're wondering, the wood strip between the fireplace and the TV recess is a keyway for a cantilevered concrete mantle I'm going to build. There's a small key on either side for a similar hearth under the fireplace. The hearth will pour over the fireplace opening on the bottom.
As with anything, we've learned from experience and made some adjustments. We've had some corners open up and create a little sand streaking. It's safe to say, this form isn't going anywhere.
Here's a shot of the top of the S shaped wall showing the ThermoMass and some of the conduit we had to tuck in. This wall creates a nook for a little outside kitchen so we had to incorporate a fair bit of electrical.
We'll also be placing the ICFs tomorrow.
The ICFs are proving to be pretty versatile. We needed a little pilaster to support a 3x5 column so we carved out a little foam and added a plywood form. When we removed the foam we left the plastic web in place to act as a tie.
The T wall is coming along as well
Remember the fiberglass ties we considered using for the AC? Well they are coming in handy to keep the end caps in place.
We've installed our braces to help align the ICFs. The final step of every concrete placement is to plumb the corners and string line the top of the wall. The detailed drawings and measurements we took of the radiant tubing in the floor below came in handy when fastening the braces down - no red plastic shavings yet.
To establish grade we chalked a line, attached strapping to act as a guide and cut away the inside face of the ICFs. The outside face will give us a start on the edge form for the 11' Roof slab.
It's a bit tedious but it helps assure a level bearing surface for the LiteDeck panels.
We were about ready to call it a day when my patience failed me and I started removing forms from the fireplace wall. It wasn't long before the guys joined in and we had it stripped in no time.
Turns out my anxiety was for naught - it came out great. A little cosmetic clean up and we'll have a first class bit of concrete. Keep in mind, this is the raw product, once it bleaches out and we clean it up it the color will be much more uniform.
In case you're wondering, the wood strip between the fireplace and the TV recess is a keyway for a cantilevered concrete mantle I'm going to build. There's a small key on either side for a similar hearth under the fireplace. The hearth will pour over the fireplace opening on the bottom.
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Cemoto
Well-known member
Nice!
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Congrats on the fireplacement! You'll be able to sleep like a baby tonight if you just keep thinking of how swell it came out of the box; just don't give tomorrow's pour another thought! Sleep tight! lol
Sunbimmer
Well-known member
Every day I look at your progress and every day I can not figure out what you are building , well a house obviously
What I mean is, your house has so many details it is hard to see what it is you're building in the pictures but I absolutely love seeing it being build in every detail.
I think when the forms are off it is much clearer for me to see what it is going to look like.
BTW that fireplace is going to be awesome you will love it, we have one too in our house and we love it.
It was a big investment but worth every cent.
I can not imagine how much planning must be involved with this build
Good luck man and keep us updated please
, well a house obviously What I mean is, your house has so many details it is hard to see what it is you're building in the pictures but I absolutely love seeing it being build in every detail.
I think when the forms are off it is much clearer for me to see what it is going to look like.
BTW that fireplace is going to be awesome you will love it, we have one too in our house and we love it.
It was a big investment but worth every cent.
I can not imagine how much planning must be involved with this build
Good luck man and keep us updated please
Thanks to everyone for the positive comments. The fact that you guys are following along keeps me motivated to document the build. I know I'll look back on this thread for many years to come and be very glad I did.
That's awesome! You continue to amaze Omphaloskeptic. I might have to buy you a plane ticket to come to the GJ open house just to make sure you show up.
Thanks Sunbimmer. It must be very hard to follow from the pictures - it's not all that easy in real life. Bear with me, by the end of the day Monday, all the tents will be gone and all the forms will be stripped. I'll put up some wide angle shots that will hopefully put things in context.
That's awesome! You continue to amaze Omphaloskeptic. I might have to buy you a plane ticket to come to the GJ open house just to make sure you show up.
Every day I look at your progress and every day I can not figure out what you are building
What I mean is, your house has so many details it is hard to see what it is you're building...
Thanks Sunbimmer. It must be very hard to follow from the pictures - it's not all that easy in real life. Bear with me, by the end of the day Monday, all the tents will be gone and all the forms will be stripped. I'll put up some wide angle shots that will hopefully put things in context.
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We're following along because this is such an awesome build. You're stopping to take pictures and explaining alot. Hell, this thread is building my confidence to jack up my house, tear out the stone foundation and set up some ICFs.
Paitently waiting for Monday to arrive. . .
