LLWilly, I've been following this build since you first posted it. I've learned a lot from your posts in regards to concrete itself. I'd be worried about some villain trying to take over your house when it's done...painted black, it'd be one hell of an evil lair. lol
The Concrete Underground
- Thread starter ConCretin
- Start date
Ryanjax
Active member
I don't say much, but I read and am amazed every morning while drinking my coffee. I have a dream to build a timberframe home one day and this gives me hope. I'm actually going to a workshop up by you in Brownfield, Maine.
Vernmotor
Well-known member
I been reading all along. and I never had no idea what it took to make something like this !
it amaze me all the steel and rebar that in there. a lot more work than I thought that is for sure. I will look at concrete a lot diff from now on.
it amaze me all the steel and rebar that in there. a lot more work than I thought that is for sure. I will look at concrete a lot diff from now on.
Jimbo..
Well-known member
This project never ceases to amaze me. We are currently in the middle of a relatively straightforward remodel on a simple stick-framed house, and having to spec out the exact placement of everything... every switch, every outlet, every tiny detail in advance like this? That would have driven me insane!
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
Wow the fireplace concrete turned out awesome. Hard work pays off! I have one question tho - how high is the TV going to sit? I guess it depends on your preference, but your eye level should be at the middle of the panel to a max of the bottom 1/3 of the panel. Otherwise your neck gets tired over time (for me, a matter of a few minutes) but some people don't care. With all the planning, I assume you guys are ok with that placement!
Keep up the great work! And thank you for the pics. I don't have comments most of the days (besides "wow, awesome!") but I check in daily, and have for near a year!
Keep up the great work! And thank you for the pics. I don't have comments most of the days (besides "wow, awesome!") but I check in daily, and have for near a year!
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
"That's awesome! You continue to amaze Omphaloskeptic. I might have to buy you a plane ticket to come to the GJ open house just to make sure you show up. "
Aw shucks - Twern't nothin. lol
Being there for the open house would indeed be a real treat for me, but I'm sure your money for the plane ticket could be better spent by 'bonusing' your crew. Just a shout out from me to your boys on their fantastic dedication to their craft! With your pictures and detailed documentation, I get to see not only great results in construction, but also their combined efforts and work ethic in producing 'fine furniture joinery' for the forms; while working in nasty weather conditions! If I could be there at the house warming, I'd certainly raise a toast (or two) to a conscientious crew who made it happen. Well done guys, well done for sure!
Aw shucks - Twern't nothin. lol
Being there for the open house would indeed be a real treat for me, but I'm sure your money for the plane ticket could be better spent by 'bonusing' your crew. Just a shout out from me to your boys on their fantastic dedication to their craft! With your pictures and detailed documentation, I get to see not only great results in construction, but also their combined efforts and work ethic in producing 'fine furniture joinery' for the forms; while working in nasty weather conditions! If I could be there at the house warming, I'd certainly raise a toast (or two) to a conscientious crew who made it happen. Well done guys, well done for sure!
It turned out to be a beautiful winter day here in Maine. Sunny and mid forties is perfect weather to place some concrete. As you'll note, we're still pumping the concrete. My conveyor was in the shop for the last two, but for this one we needed the added reach.
We started by placing the low wall in the back of the kitchen to give it time to set up a bit before we filled the big step you can see in the background. We'd never get the concrete to stay in the higher form otherwise - we'd be shoveling forever.
We then moved onto the walls at the other end of the house. The walls are 9' tall and we placed them in two lifts. That's a pretty stout load on the ICFs but we had them well braced.
We kept moving counter clockwise to the T wall. This one steps from 9' to 10'8. This shot gives you some perspective on how damn tall this thing is.
For the ICFs, I ordered a 4000 psi x 3/8" mix with midrange. When we were pretty close to done placing the ICfs, we backed in the truck with the concrete for the AC. It was the same except we upped the water reducer to a high range. I didn't want to start the AC with the last of the ICF mix, which has started to stiffen up a bit.
For the ICFs we used an internal ********. It's a little high frequency unit with a 1" head that doesn't rattle things too bad, which is perfect for the ICFs - they are just plastic and styrofoam after all.
For the AC we relied on our external vibrators.
It was a bit tight in the tent and such a nice day that the pump operator and I went out the skylight to place the AC walls
One more placement down, eight to go. Maybe the end IS in sight. At least the end of the concrete. Kinda makes me sad to think about it but there's plenty of other stuff to do.
We started by placing the low wall in the back of the kitchen to give it time to set up a bit before we filled the big step you can see in the background. We'd never get the concrete to stay in the higher form otherwise - we'd be shoveling forever.
We then moved onto the walls at the other end of the house. The walls are 9' tall and we placed them in two lifts. That's a pretty stout load on the ICFs but we had them well braced.
We kept moving counter clockwise to the T wall. This one steps from 9' to 10'8. This shot gives you some perspective on how damn tall this thing is.
For the ICFs, I ordered a 4000 psi x 3/8" mix with midrange. When we were pretty close to done placing the ICfs, we backed in the truck with the concrete for the AC. It was the same except we upped the water reducer to a high range. I didn't want to start the AC with the last of the ICF mix, which has started to stiffen up a bit.
For the ICFs we used an internal ********. It's a little high frequency unit with a 1" head that doesn't rattle things too bad, which is perfect for the ICFs - they are just plastic and styrofoam after all.
For the AC we relied on our external vibrators.
It was a bit tight in the tent and such a nice day that the pump operator and I went out the skylight to place the AC walls
One more placement down, eight to go. Maybe the end IS in sight. At least the end of the concrete. Kinda makes me sad to think about it but there's plenty of other stuff to do.
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Vernmotor
Well-known member
If you find the time to expand. what exactly does this mean (4000 psi x 3/8" mix with midrange)
randomtwinkie
Well-known member
I take it the ICF's don't need to be tented while setting due to the insulation?
Kind of a recurring theme for some reason. Hopefully I'm well enough armed to hold the villains at bay
I'm glad you weighed in Ryanjax. I'm honored when guys who don't post much are moved to do so by what we're doing. Timber frames are great and there a number of great schools here in Maine. Are you thinking of cladding it with SIPs?
Thanks. We had a similar arrangement in our last home and really liked it. I don't recall the exact height but it's relatively low and will hopefully be comfortable.
No problem. 4000 psi is the compressive strength of the concrete at 28 days. It's primarily a factor of water / cement ratio. The more cement you use relative to mix water, the higher the strength. 3/8" is the maximum course aggregate size. Mid range is an admixture that gives you a higher slump without having to add water and results in a more flowable mix.
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I think I've seen you use vertical steel beams someplaces and vertical concrete beams (where you have installed rebar columns inside the icf) on other places. any reason for selecting one vs the other?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
I have two concrete pieces of furniture in my place.. A 700lbs table and a 350lbs chair (that will eventually sit by the lake at the cottage)
(My chair is in the living room, this is an internet picture)
I love concrete, your house will be incredible!!!
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Ryanjax
Active member
I'm glad you weighed in Ryanjax. I'm honored when guys who don't post much are moved to do so by what we're doing. Timber frames are great and there a number of great schools here in Maine. Are you thinking of cladding it with SIPs?
That's exactly the plan. I'd like to do a ICF foundation, build the timberframe, then encase the whole thing in SIPs. I've heard of quite a few ridiculously low energy bills going this route. I'd also like to go the geothermal route if the budget allows it.
That's exactly the plan. I'd like to do a ICF foundation, build the timberframe, then encase the whole thing in SIPs. I've heard of quite a few ridiculously low energy bills going this route. I'd also like to go the geothermal route if the budget allows it.
Love that plan!. I'm going the geothermal route myself despite the fact that I really don't think it's cost effective - the payback period period is longer than I'm likely to live. I've got a ton of glass and am concerned that the temps will be uncomfortable if our Maine summer happens to fall on a weekend.
If your budget becomes an issue, take a look at a traditional concrete foundation with rigid insulation on one side. I'm not convinced ICFs are cost effective below grade but it probably depends on local pricing.
I have two concrete pieces of furniture in my place.. A 700lbs table and a 350lbs chair (that will eventually sit by the lake at the cottage)
(My chair is in the living room, this is an internet picture)
That concrete chair is amazing BeachBoy. The wheels in my head are turnin now. If the rest of your home is as cool as the furniture, it must be something special.
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Sorry BeachBoy. I missed your question the first time thru. The main reason for selecting a steel tube over a concrete column is size. If we are looking to keep the element small to preserve views, we're using structural steel columns. If the support falls in the middle of a wall or doesn't block a view, we can use concrete and rebar.
We're also using rebar horizontally to create beams or 'headers' over openings. Whenever you see stirrups (the smaller bars bent into squares or rectangles), we are creating a column or beam within the concrete. The stirrups make the bars they surround act as one unit. The bigger the stirrup, the larger and stronger the beam/column.
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memphisnate
Well-known member
What's the reach on that concrete truck?
Hottrod
Well-known member
In and amongst all of the great projects on the forum, this continues to be my favourite build - design and quality-wise everything is top-notch... if only I had you to work on my concrete here!!
Great build!!!! Thanks for the pictures and telling us how concrete works with the form and wall construction. Question: are you going to put rails on the steps down to the dock? Looks kind of naked with out any on them (if you have them -i have not seen them in any pictures). Keep up the great work.
I'm not sure why people talk about global warming like it's a bad thing. The ice went out on the Kennebec River today and we got another hour of daylight - Life is good!
Today was a major stripping and clean up day. We didn't finish but we made some progress
We also brought our 70 ton crane down the road to erect the structural steel - no small task. Jeff backed it down 2000 feet through the mud and water, slippin and slidin,
With the tent removed you can see the 'chimney' above the gas fireplace wall
We removed the temporary protection I put last December in preparation for the installation of columns. You're seeing the top of a steel beam that forms the floor over the basement.
Here's the first wall people will see when that approach the 'concrete house'. I can live with it.
Tomorrow we start erecting structural steel and the place will really start taking shape.
Today was a major stripping and clean up day. We didn't finish but we made some progress
We also brought our 70 ton crane down the road to erect the structural steel - no small task. Jeff backed it down 2000 feet through the mud and water, slippin and slidin,
With the tent removed you can see the 'chimney' above the gas fireplace wall
We removed the temporary protection I put last December in preparation for the installation of columns. You're seeing the top of a steel beam that forms the floor over the basement.
Here's the first wall people will see when that approach the 'concrete house'. I can live with it.
Tomorrow we start erecting structural steel and the place will really start taking shape.
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LL,
I have been following your build for several months after stumbling onto this site (from a link on grassrootsmotorsports forum for "marks monster garage").. This is my first post.
So - first of all - Terrific project. I am so glad you were able to sell your last place to continue the work. As an architect, I have taken great interest in your project - garage included. Very authentic and informative writing/photography - thanks for everything you have and continue to share.
I too dream of building a concrete house - either ICF or precast isolated thermal mass, with concrete floor and roof slabs. With that in mind, I have a couple questions:
What will you do with your floors? Polished concrete? Maybe some stain? I am curious what a concrete contractor thinks of these for finishes.
What will be your cladding for the ICF's?
What are you finding to be the maximum lift height for the ICF's and have any blown out?
Again, THANK YOU for all the time you give this. Best of luck and keep it safe in/around your future home.
I have been following your build for several months after stumbling onto this site (from a link on grassrootsmotorsports forum for "marks monster garage").. This is my first post.
So - first of all - Terrific project. I am so glad you were able to sell your last place to continue the work. As an architect, I have taken great interest in your project - garage included. Very authentic and informative writing/photography - thanks for everything you have and continue to share.
I too dream of building a concrete house - either ICF or precast isolated thermal mass, with concrete floor and roof slabs. With that in mind, I have a couple questions:
What will you do with your floors? Polished concrete? Maybe some stain? I am curious what a concrete contractor thinks of these for finishes.
What will be your cladding for the ICF's?
What are you finding to be the maximum lift height for the ICF's and have any blown out?
Again, THANK YOU for all the time you give this. Best of luck and keep it safe in/around your future home.
Than you for the positive comments OHSCrifle.
Ironically there won't be much, if any exposed decorative concrete. The primary reason for this is practical. Do to the complexity of the design and construction, there are too many block-outs and it would be virtually impossible to protect the floor from damage, staining, cracks, etc.
Decorative concrete is difficult to pull off under the best conditions and we have way too many complications to make it workable.
The ICFs will be covered with rain screen siding using a combination of cement board panels and cement clapboards.
Our ICF walls are 9-11' tall. We placed them in 2 lifts and didn't get any major movement or blow outs. We were pretty careful to brace the heck out of the weak spots but they held up very well.
I've been away for a while remodeling my home (so I can get to my garage ), so the 40 hour weeks (plus my FT job) have kept me away. I've got to say that in coming back to this thread - things are really taking shape. In a few more weeks I'll be able to follow more regularly.
For me, I've got final touch-ups and room assembly (furniture and such) and then I'll be in my home for the first time. We calculated labor costs if I had to pay for the man hours for our remodel, and man-oh-man, I'm glad I'm not building the concrete underground! Hahaha. This one-man operation stuff does take longer than I'd like to admit.
In total we have no less than 2430 hours in my labor. If I charged $50/hr we'd be at over $121,000. That's just for a 1722 sq. ft. home!
), so the 40 hour weeks (plus my FT job) have kept me away. I've got to say that in coming back to this thread - things are really taking shape. In a few more weeks I'll be able to follow more regularly. For me, I've got final touch-ups and room assembly (furniture and such) and then I'll be in my home for the first time. We calculated labor costs if I had to pay for the man hours for our remodel, and man-oh-man, I'm glad I'm not building the concrete underground! Hahaha. This one-man operation stuff does take longer than I'd like to admit.
In total we have no less than 2430 hours in my labor. If I charged $50/hr we'd be at over $121,000. That's just for a 1722 sq. ft. home!
cgall
Well-known member
To the guy that asked about the concrete pump, the booms are sized in meters and typically are 32 to 40 meters for a job like this. Putzmeister builds trucks that have booms of up to 70 meters.
LLWillysfan, glad to see you are back underway on this inspirational project.
LLWillysfan, glad to see you are back underway on this inspirational project.
Buzz Lightyear
Well-known member
An architect eh?
You don't work for Druid and Partners do you?
It's all starting to come together and make more sense to me now. Keep the updates coming please.
..Negatory. I used to work on houses, but I have been working on lots of concrete structures over the last several years - high rise varieties. Hopefully an NFL stadium in the not too distant future. But I really miss working on houses.. which is why this LL character caught my attention.
The project has officially passed a new milestone - we have steel in the air;
I figured I'd start with a couple wide angle shots to get you oriented.
And finally from the front.
This thing really is a hybrid - part steel frame / part concrete frame. It's been a challenge to ensure everything fits.
The process starts with setting leveling nuts. The bottom of the base plate is an inch above concrete grade. This space allows you some tolerance to get the column plumb and at the correct elevation. Once the steel is in position, you fill the space with non shrink grout.
Thanks to a great fabricator and a fantastic detailer who took an interest in the job, the steel almost bolted itself up. An occasional pull with a spud wrench and the pieces just slipped into place. It literally plumbed itself.
Here's a shot of the angles that support the concrete perimeter beam. The holes are for rebar to pass thru. If you remember, we've used this detail before on the LiteDeck slab over the basement.
A similar detail is used at the roof edge over the Master Bedroom.
Here's a shot down the length of the main living space. You can start to get a sense of proportion and the height of the glass to the right and either side of the fireplace wall. The two ceiling heights are visible. About 9' to the left over the Prep Kitchen and 10' 8" in the main living area.
In case you've noticed the plywood on the corners of the AC walls, it is there to prevent chips. We spent a lot of time getting nice crisp corners and I don't want them to get beat up.
Meanwhile, Scott is getting started on the ICF walls in the garage structure. Yes, there actually is a garage in the project
Here you can see how the panels align with the foundation. The outside face of the 12 1/2" blocks lines up with the foundation. The inside face overhangs 2 1/2". I'm filling the space under the ICFs with 2" of rigid and then sheet rocking the whole wall. The extra 1/2" gives me some wiggle room if the foundation isn't perfect.
Stefan is also moving out to the garage. He'll be working on the final AC wall on the first floor - there is one final wall on the second floor of the garage.
This wall is L shaped except it is not 90 degrees, it is 75 degrees. We've built a custom form to create the prow of this wall.
Rick's crew is setting the steel. They'll finish the second floor tomorrow and then move on to LIteDeck. We'll have three fronts going for the next couple weeks.
I figured I'd start with a couple wide angle shots to get you oriented.
And finally from the front.
This thing really is a hybrid - part steel frame / part concrete frame. It's been a challenge to ensure everything fits.
The process starts with setting leveling nuts. The bottom of the base plate is an inch above concrete grade. This space allows you some tolerance to get the column plumb and at the correct elevation. Once the steel is in position, you fill the space with non shrink grout.
Thanks to a great fabricator and a fantastic detailer who took an interest in the job, the steel almost bolted itself up. An occasional pull with a spud wrench and the pieces just slipped into place. It literally plumbed itself.
Here's a shot of the angles that support the concrete perimeter beam. The holes are for rebar to pass thru. If you remember, we've used this detail before on the LiteDeck slab over the basement.
A similar detail is used at the roof edge over the Master Bedroom.
Here's a shot down the length of the main living space. You can start to get a sense of proportion and the height of the glass to the right and either side of the fireplace wall. The two ceiling heights are visible. About 9' to the left over the Prep Kitchen and 10' 8" in the main living area.
In case you've noticed the plywood on the corners of the AC walls, it is there to prevent chips. We spent a lot of time getting nice crisp corners and I don't want them to get beat up.
Meanwhile, Scott is getting started on the ICF walls in the garage structure. Yes, there actually is a garage in the project
Here you can see how the panels align with the foundation. The outside face of the 12 1/2" blocks lines up with the foundation. The inside face overhangs 2 1/2". I'm filling the space under the ICFs with 2" of rigid and then sheet rocking the whole wall. The extra 1/2" gives me some wiggle room if the foundation isn't perfect.
Stefan is also moving out to the garage. He'll be working on the final AC wall on the first floor - there is one final wall on the second floor of the garage.
This wall is L shaped except it is not 90 degrees, it is 75 degrees. We've built a custom form to create the prow of this wall.
Rick's crew is setting the steel. They'll finish the second floor tomorrow and then move on to LIteDeck. We'll have three fronts going for the next couple weeks.
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Looking good.
HOTFR8
Banned
Good to see it and get a better idea as to how it will look when finished.
Vernmotor
Well-known member
wow that starting to take some shape..
Holy Cow Batman
I think the "We have steel" ight be the understatement of this month.
I am enjoying the build and learning a lot. I just hope there isn't a test at the end. Cause I never wanted to be in the cement business, particularly in places where the ice breaks up. I do certainly enjoy watching and learning though.
Please keep the pictures and the explainations coming, tuning into this thread is a highlight in my day.
I think the "We have steel" ight be the understatement of this month.
I am enjoying the build and learning a lot. I just hope there isn't a test at the end. Cause I never wanted to be in the cement business, particularly in places where the ice breaks up. I do certainly enjoy watching and learning though.
Please keep the pictures and the explainations coming, tuning into this thread is a highlight in my day.
So what will this roof look like?
If its "nearly" flat like I anticipate, will you have a roof deck up there? I worked on a renovation in RI that had a widows walk with a (sailboat-like) sliding access hatch.. always thought it was cool (though our renovation removed it).
Your crew is dressed for warmer weather. What's your temperature up to.. 36?
The roofs are concrete and are flat. They'll be covered with a tapered insulation to achieve an 1/8"/ft pitch followed a ballasted membrane roofing system. All the lower roofs are accessible thru doors and we anticipate one or more decks.
March weather can go either way and we've been lucky this year. The temps are running high thirties to mid forties - good workin weather.
Thedoc14
Well-known member
Ll the place is looking great now you are adding all the steel. Once you cover that in it will look spooky should make for some nice B&W photos with sunrise and sunsets glowing through..
Great work and great information shared.
Great work and great information shared.
Hey, LLWillysFan, a little 3am insomnia at play this morning? I have worked on projects
from nuclear power plants, to tilt up concrete warehouses, to hospitals and everything
in between. Your project has them all covered, hands down. We used ICFs on our homes
basement and they are a great product. The way you guys moved on the steel is
impressive. Beautiful view of the river. Congrats on a great project.
from nuclear power plants, to tilt up concrete warehouses, to hospitals and everything
in between. Your project has them all covered, hands down. We used ICFs on our homes
basement and they are a great product. The way you guys moved on the steel is
impressive. Beautiful view of the river. Congrats on a great project.
Commercial building codes require 1/4" per foot minimum roof slope. I realize this isn't a commerical project, but the logic is sound. Deflection due to live/dead loads can turn a uniform 1/8" pitch into a birdbath real quick. Even welded laps in the membrane (if not oriented parallel to the slope) can cause puddles that you'd best try to avoid.
I would run this by your roof contractor, give it the laugh test. Otherwise
Edit: didn't mean to come across as preachin', in case it is perceived that way.
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Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Gee, I kinda thought LL would go with a dead flat roof for his build. Just think, a ramp up the hillside and he could use the roof for a parking lot; it surely will be stout enough for that! In the winter, he could dam up the roof edge, flood it and have one hell of a skating rink! LOL
Your comment about the steelwork practically plumbing itself just blows me away. How the heck do they fabricate those pieces at the shop so accurately to allow everything to just slip together at the build site? Amazing, simply amazing!
Your comment about the steelwork practically plumbing itself just blows me away. How the heck do they fabricate those pieces at the shop so accurately to allow everything to just slip together at the build site? Amazing, simply amazing!
Motown 454
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,359
Congratulation's on the steel going up , its really taking shape now!